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Jiggly brisket on no reservations

Arlin_MacRae said:
This is Q-Talk, guys. Please stay reasonably on topic, wouldja? While Jane Seymour is a babe, and yes, membership has it's privilieges, brisket is the topic.
:rolleyes:

Arlin
Click to expand...
Sorry Arlin, I will stay on topic.

Grizz, I will often trim the ends of my packer to square them up a little on the flat, I also use that to make a reference cut. Thus, even a large packer usually fits on my UDS. BUT, you can take a tip from Boshizzle and put a ball of foil under that brisket, then it will fit nicely, you will get better air flow around the meat, for more even cooking and the bark will be terrific as well.
 
QDoc said:
I used to cook brisket that jiggled and basically fell apart. It was juicey. Then I took entered a few KCBS contests, became a certified Judge, and took a few classes.
What I got from that was KCBS prefers a slightly underdone brisket than those depicted in this thread. One where the bark does not fracture when sliced and looks pretty.
Click to expand...

That's all I'm seeing in the video. The point with all the fat jiggling and fall apart over cooked brisket. That's fine if you like it that way but its the equivalent of fall off the bone ribs.
 
I found early on, that there is a wide variety of what folks like in brisket, and for now, I think most folks are going for that softer brisket style. My cousins (Idaho and Texas) do not like a soft brisket or roast, they always say 'that is what teeth are for' and 'I don't want my beef like baby food'.

I happen to prefer point cooked a lot more and served sliced, but, I prefer the flat a little less falling apart. Once it starts to fall apart when slicing, it means it will be dryer.
 
On the topic of "jiggly" brisket and the video of Franklin BBQ's brisket here is my 2 cents worth of opinion.

I've eaten brisket at Franklin BBQ. It's delicious. It's juicy. It's tender. I thought it was the best brisket I had while in Texas and I ate at 9 barbcuce restaurants including the Salt Lick, Snow's, and all the great places in Lockhart. Nothing I'm going to write below is any kind of criticism of Franklin BBQ's brisket.

As far as Bourdain's comments go, I must conclude that he really hasn't eaten that much great barbecue. His gushing praise says more about his inexperienced barbecue palate than it does Franklin BBQ's brisket.

Seriously. His reaction to eating it was the reaction of a person that is used to eating brisket cooked, chilled, and reheated for service at chain restaurants or other want to be barbecue restaurants.

Franklin BBQ's brisket is good, but it isn't so unique that it is in and of itself the gold standard as insinuated by Bourdain.

You folks who want to learn to cook a brisket that can rival anything you can get at the BBQ meccas in Texas need to pay close attention to methods that you can learn right here on this board. And, I mean close attention.

I see a lot of people try to combine methods from different cooks and then complain that the meat was tough or dry or whatever. You need to try several methods exactly as described in the posts without deviation. Then, make up your mind which on you like. You may have to make adjustments because you are using a different cooker than the original poster (OP). If so, ask questions before trying the method. Or, seek out a successful method on the board that highlights the kind of cooker you have.

Don't deviate from the instructions. Don't!

Further, butcher paper is no silver bullet. The great Texas places wrap in butcher paper because they have it on hand and it costs more to buy butcher paper and aluminum foil together. They use what they have on hand.

If you have trouble getting good bark on a brisket, it may be your method, it may be your ingredients, it may be the foil, and it may even be the butcher paper. There are many ways to skin a cat and to cook a delicious brisket and you can find a lot of them right here on this board.
 
Boshizzle said:
On the topic of "jiggly" brisket and the video of Franklin BBQ's brisket here is my 2 cents worth of opinion.

I've eaten brisket at Franklin BBQ. It's delicious. It's juicy. It's tender. I thought it was the best brisket I had while in Texas and I ate at 9 barbcuce restaurants including the Salt Lick, Snow's, and all the great places in Lockhart. Nothing I'm going to write below is any kind of criticism of Franklin BBQ's brisket.

As far as Bourdain's comments go, I must conclude that he really hasn't eaten that much great barbecue. His gushing praise says more about his inexperienced barbecue palate than it does Franklin BBQ's brisket.

Seriously. His reaction to eating it was the reaction of a person that is used to eating brisket cooked, chilled, and reheated for service at chain restaurants or other want to be barbecue restaurants.

Franklin BBQ's brisket is good, but it isn't so unique that it is in and of itself the gold standard as insinuated by Bourdain.

You folks who want to learn to cook a brisket that can rival anything you can get at the BBQ meccas in Texas need to pay close attention to methods that you can learn right here on this board. And, I mean close attention.

I see a lot of people try to combine methods from different cooks and then complain that the meat was tough or dry or whatever. You need to try several methods exactly as described in the posts without deviation. Then, make up your mind which on you like. You may have to make adjustments because you are using a different cooker than the original poster (OP). If so, ask questions before trying the method. Or, seek out a successful method on the board that highlights the kind of cooker you have.

Don't deviate from the instructions. Don't!

Further, butcher paper is no silver bullet. The great Texas places wrap in butcher paper because they have it on hand and it costs more to buy butcher paper and aluminum foil together. They use what they have on hand.

If you have trouble getting good bark on a brisket, it may be your method, it may be your ingredients, it may be the foil, and it may even be the butcher paper. There are many ways to skin a cat and to cook a delicious brisket and you can find a lot of them right here on this board.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
Boshizzle, the best point you make, in my experience, is for people to stop taking bits and pieces of various techniques from successful cook and doing a mixed process early in their learning period. There is no substitute for experience and a lot lives here every day. I see it all the time, where people are going to 5 or 6 thread, 3 or 4 websites and doing what they like, and not what they are reading. Then they get mixed results and end up confused, or worse, intimidated.

In particular, there is a real difference in how you cook a brisket at 225F, 275F and 325F, right down to the trim and rub. There is a real difference between foil, paper and no wrap at all. And finally, there is a real difference between competition, catering, restaurant and home cooking. The methods do not combine well.
 
OK so you guys are freaking me out a little bit...

18lb packer
Rub is salt and pepper with some garlic and celery salt
15+ hours at 250-275
wrap in paper at internal temp around 165
pull from smoker at internal temp of 200ish
Let it sit in the oven at 200 until ready to slice

Will this work fine or should I run around waving my hands all crazy like until i get tired where i fall to the ground and curl up into the fetal position until some magic brisket fairy delivers the perfect brisket to my door. Then the family will be able to enjoy some good Q and i get to suck meals through a straw for the rest of my existance in an institution...
 
Grizzly6 said:
OK so you guys are freaking me out a little bit...

18lb packer
Rub is salt and pepper with some garlic and celery salt
15+ hours at 250-275
wrap in paper at internal temp around 165
pull from smoker at internal temp of 200ish
Let it sit in the oven at 200 until ready to slice

Will this work fine or should I run around waving my hands all crazy like until i get tired where i fall to the ground and curl up into the fetal position until some magic brisket fairy delivers the perfect brisket to my door. Then the family will be able to enjoy some good Q and i get to suck meals through a straw for the rest of my existance in an institution...
Click to expand...


260 - 270f. You can wrap it after 6 hours if the bark is set (that's a big one). Don't forget to splash it with 1/4 of 50/50 worcestershire and water mix as you wrap. Try to hold for 4 hours.
 
Grizzly6 said:
OK so you guys are freaking me out a little bit...

18lb packer - of course, once you trim it, that is the weight that matters
Rub is salt and pepper with some garlic and celery salt - watch the salt, most folks that use both salt and celery salt end up too salty fairly often
15+ hours at 250-275 - Maybe, then again, maybe not
wrap in paper at internal temp around 165 -yes
pull from smoker at internal temp of 200ish - NO! Pull from smoker when the meat probes easily, poke a hole in paper, shove a metal skewer, ice pick or themometer probe in and see if it goes in easily
Let it sit in the oven at 200 until ready to slice - You could do that, or in a pre-warmed cooler if you are within a 3 to 4 hour window for serving.

Will this work fine or should I run around waving my hands all crazy like until i get tired where i fall to the ground and curl up into the fetal position until some magic brisket fairy delivers the perfect brisket to my door. Then the family will be able to enjoy some good Q and i get to suck meals through a straw for the rest of my existance in an institution...
Click to expand...
My comments in red.

Oh, if you are going to cook at 250F, you will want to trim off most of the fat, leave just a little on the cap, maybe 1/8 to 1/4 inch of fat.
 
landarc said:
My comments in red.

Oh, if you are going to cook at 250F, you will want to trim off most of the fat, leave just a little on the cap, maybe 1/8 to 1/4 inch of fat.
Click to expand...

So what ratio of salt to celery salt to pepper would you use?

I was thinking:
1 part salt
2 parts pepper
1 part celery salt
1/2 part garlic

Go less on the salt and keep the celery salt the same?
 
JS-TX said:
You are obviously free to wrap in paper whenever you want, but in keeping with the "theme" of this thread I do believe Aaron wraps his during the cook, at least that's what he says in one of the videos posted here. I do believe you will like what the paper does for your bark if you wrap at some point during your cook. What's your target temp?

Do you have to refuel your UDS at any point? I wouldn't hesitate to smoke that turkey at 325+, it may help you avoid rubbery skin and shave some time off your cook.
Click to expand...

I was thinking of adding more fuel just prior to putting the turkey on...


** Sorry all for hi-jacking the thread a little.:thumb:
 
I would not use the celery salt :biggrin1: I would use celery seed and grind it to a powder, then add a tiny amount if I added any at all. I do not care for the celery component in beef rubs at all. If I assume you are going to use the celery salt no matter what...1/2 part celery salt and 1/2 part salt. Celery salt is mostly salt anyways.

Although I use commercial rubs, if I am making my own, I want to control each element, thus, I do not use combo spices and herbs, I add what I want of each. Salt and pepper are the most important elements of this.

A very simple rub for brisket
3 parts Redmond Real Kosher Salt
2 parts black Pepper, ground to a medium grind, no fines
1 part each of organic onion granules and garlic granules
1/8 part Natural sugar, finely ground
 
guys..

hate to take all the fun out of here.. but..

Aaron Franklins briskets are cooked NO DIFFERENTLY than most of us..

his target temperature zones are wide, and he doesnt pay that much attention to them.. 250-270-- even 300+ degree spikes.. he doesnt care. He just cooks.... just like us, and his rubs are simple rubs. What he does that most of us dont... is he KNOWS briskets.

How do I know this?.. I got the lessons..i cooked with him for 2 days in NYC last week at Meatopia. Back in June, I got a call from a friend who needed someone to help his 'friend' who was coming here to cook and needed hands and equipment.. so I agreed and told him to pass on my number, and the next day i got a call from Aaron Franklin. :shock:

i went down to the venue with a double barrel lang 84.. we were given a load of oak and a little cherry.. Aaron had a box with his knives, some terrycloth rags and a roll of butcher paper. He mixed his rub right there.. very simple as he traveled light. We had to prep and cook 50 briskets for service 4PM Saturday. We started 8Pm Friday night.

he trimmed like we do...
he rubbed like we do...
he put the briskets in the pit just like we do..
and he loosly maintained temps... not too concerned about where.. 250-275...290...300... 260.... whatever..the only time he got concerned was when grease caught fire on the deflector plate and started toasting some of the briskets on the bottom shelf. Otherwise.. hes cooks anywhere within the range..

whats different?..... he looks at a brisket, listens to it.. picks it up, feels it, puts it down moves it to different spots...makes determinations..based on what he sees and feels... not once... not a single one... of the 50 briskets ever saw a thermaopen or a probe.. (he had a lime green one that sat in his knife case..never took it out..) he would glance at the pit temp and control airflow by cracking the door to the pit and never touched a damper.. he said his pits in austin dont have dampers on the doors, just the exhaust.. and he controls air with the doors and he controls smoke with how he builds his fires.. he wraps in butcher paper like everyone sees in the videos and he returns to the pit.. and its done when he picks it up, feels it with a squeeze and says.. this ones done, this one needs another 30 minutes, this one needs some higher heat(and moves it closer to the firebox)... he goes by feel.. that is IT.. no magic.... experience... many of us can pick up a rack of ribs, and know if its done by look and feel.. judging the firmness of the meat and the bend to the rack.. and thats how he is with briskets.. he feels it and just knows..

On saturday, after cookign 50 briskets, on a cooker he has never used before, and with nothing in the way of supplies except his knives and a cutting board... he was the one with the line that never ended..Even during a storm, folks never left the line.. and on top of it all..he walks away with the title of Meatopia Grand Champion, leading out over 49 other professional cooks, including APL and and an Iron Chef..

How'd he do it??.. he knows briskets.. period... there is nothing special.. no secrets, no magic ingredient.. chit, he won using completely different wood than he normally uses... he goes by feel, and consistency.. he cooks 1400 lbs a day.. think about it..... thats 90+ briskets A DAY! I dont do that in 2 years. We can analyze this until we are blue in the face..

Franklins briskets are the result of experience..thats it... its not temps, hold times, not the rubs and he does not sauce(he serves sauce on the side to dip).

its simply his experience... so if you want to duplicate his product.. start cookin.
 

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Thanks 'ole Grand PooBah!!! Just reaffirms the K.I.S.S. approach and experience does more for you than any seasoning or pit can!!!
 
Toronto said:
Thanks for sharing the vids, ive never seen brisket jiggle like that. The Franklin videos were very informative, I like his simplistic approach and rub.



There seems to be a lot of negative energy when I see posts from Pitmaster T. Not trying to take sides or get in the middle of anything.... just my two cents.
Click to expand...


My impression of some people.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuStsFW4EmQ"]Kelly's Heroes Oddball - Negative Waves - YouTube[/ame]
 
BBQchef33 said:
guys..

hate to take all the fun out of here.. but..

Aaron Franklins briskets are cooked NO DIFFERENTLY than most of us..

his target temperature zones are wide, and he doesnt pay that much attention to them.. 250-270-- even 300+ degree spikes.. he doesnt care. He just cooks.... just like us, and his rubs are simple rubs. What he does that most of us dont... is he KNOWS briskets.

How do I know this?.. I got the lessons..i cooked with him for 2 days in NYC last week at Meatopia. Back in June, I got a call from a friend who needed someone to help his 'friend' who was coming here to cook and needed hands and equipment.. so I agreed and told him to pass on my number, and the next day i got a call from Aaron Franklin. :shock:

i went down to the venue with a double barrel lang 84.. we were given a load of oak and a little cherry.. Aaron had a box with his knives, some terrycloth rags and a roll of butcher paper. He mixed his rub right there.. very simple as he traveled light. We had to prep and cook 50 briskets for service 4PM Saturday. We started 8Pm Friday night.

he trimmed like we do...
he rubbed like we do...
he put the briskets in the pit just like we do..
and he loosly maintained temps... not too concerned about where.. 250-275...290...300... 260.... whatever..the only time he got concerned was when grease caught fire on the deflector plate and started toasting some of the briskets on the bottom shelf. Otherwise.. hes cooks anywhere within the range..

whats different?..... he looks at a brisket, listens to it.. picks it up, feels it, puts it down moves it to different spots...makes determinations..based on what he sees and feels... not once... not a single one... of the 50 briskets ever saw a thermaopen or a probe.. (he had a lime green one that sat in his knife case..never took it out..) he would glance at the pit temp and control airflow by cracking the door to the pit and never touched a damper.. he said his pits in austin dont have dampers on the doors, just the exhaust.. and he controls air with the doors and he controls smoke with how he builds his fires.. he wraps in butcher paper like everyone sees in the videos and he returns to the pit.. and its done when he picks it up, feels it with a squeeze and says.. this ones done, this one needs another 30 minutes, this one needs some higher heat(and moves it closer to the firebox)... he goes by feel.. that is IT.. no magic.... experience... many of us can pick up a rack of ribs, and know if its done by look and feel.. judging the firmness of the meat and the bend to the rack.. and thats how he is with briskets.. he feels it and just knows..

On saturday, after cookign 50 briskets, on a cooker he has never used before, and with nothing in the way of supplies except his knives and a cutting board... he was the one with the line that never ended..Even during a storm, folks never left the line.. and on top of it all..he walks away with the title of Meatopia Grand Champion, leading out over 49 other professional cooks, including APL and and an Iron Chef..

How'd he do it??.. he knows briskets.. period... there is nothing special.. no secrets, no magic ingredient.. chit, he won using completely different wood than he normally uses... he goes by feel, and consistency.. he cooks 1400 lbs a day.. think about it..... thats 90+ briskets A DAY! I dont do that in 2 years. We can analyze this until we are blue in the face..

Franklins briskets are the result of experience..thats it... its not temps, hold times, not the rubs and he does not sauce(he serves sauce on the side to dip).

its simply his experience... so if you want to duplicate his product.. start cookin.
Click to expand...


One of the best posts I've read on this board. Thanks :clap:
 
I don't own a Thermapen, I don't ever take an internal temperature, I don't always cook a good brisket.


But, I can see that I am learning right.
 
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