problems with this area of the forum

Something else about using the search to get answers.. Our forum goes back 11 years..2 million posts... thats alot of answers... and more importantly, times have changed and some answers from 2005 may not apply today, or there just may be a better way now.

va_connoisseur said:

I agree with you Ron. This forum has helped me make the decision to throw my hat in the ring as a caterer.

I am just starting out, have not done any advertising yet, because I did want to learn how to do it the right way but there are times when people on this forum make it seem so daunting that it discourages people.

For me, this forum is helpful and I think if people provide honest insight about the ups and downs of catering then we all are better for it. And the truth is that when my cigar buddies ask me to "cater" an event for them, it's because (1) they trust me, (2) they like my food and (3) they want to help me succeed. And probably they would rather have me there to hang out with around the smoker than a stuffy, non-involved person.

Some of us have no desire to open a B&M, this is a hobby for us and we get all the legal/health stuff taken care of as protection but it's not going to replace our 9to5.

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This....

I have been a successful competition cook for several years in my area... And with that have been numerous requests to cater.. At first I said no, but then I realized I could make a few bucks to help pay for competitions. I had no clue where to start. Here comes this forum. I have mainly searched for questions that have already been asked. Well as I was only doing stuff "for friends" yes I was doing it at home. Now a couple years later. I realized I need to do this legit. I had a food handlers card from the beginning. Now it's time for insurance, and a county license. I tried opening my own kitchen but in reality I don't have the Capitol and with all the city codes and regulations these days not gona happen anytime soon. I found a certified kitchen to rent.

Long story short. I was the guy in the garage doing small stuff on the side. Now I am legit and have my own business although not full time.. A lot of it has to do with this forum and members like you.

Thank You to you and all who have contributed in this forum.

Jesse

Early Mornin,

I feel your pain. Every time I see a post from a hobbyist/newbie I :roll:. For some time I internally railed against them.

Then came the realization that:

A) They know they are doing business illegally and just don't care (and therefore deserve any repercussions that come their way)

B) They are unaware of the food service laws/regs and need guidance and instruction to become legal (I believe that 99.9% of the folks doing things out of compliance fit this category).

I view my role on this forum as an unpaid consultant. My goal is to assist people by answering their questions and informing them of what it truly is that they are contemplating - going into business - and all the responsibilities that entails.

When we first started thinking about doing Q for the public we had no clue as to the laws regarding public food sales. To be honest it didn't even cross our minds since we never thought of it as a business. That may sound very naive but I bet if you ask 100 people at least 90 will say that very same thing. We did a couple of festival gigs out of our home kitchen. We honestly didn't know any better. After these gigs I started doing some research and found some forums (this one is the very best I have ever come across) and quickly realized that we were at great risk. It was this very forum that helped me to focus on what we needed to do to be legit.

The laws/regs can be very confusing, and sometimes difficult to even find, that most people don't know where or how to find them. I spent a good 3-4 months researching food service regs here in KS before I felt that I had a good handle on what we needed to do to be legal. This is where sources such as this forum can be a Godsend. Here they can have access to people who know the business, from both legal and operational aspects, who can lead them in the right direction.

I understand that it can be frustrating at times to feel like every answer to new posts is a repeat of every past answer. However, I then think back to how I/We got started and realize that I may be helping them to be safe, secure and profitable in a business that they may truly love.

I do have one suggestion for this site. If the Search function was located at the top of the page(s) and was more prominently displayed it might help new Users to find/use it. The majority of webpages locate their Search functions near or at the top so most Users are expecting to find it there. I was using this site for over 6 months before I even noticed it at the bottom of the page(s)

bizznessman said:

Early Mornin,

I feel your pain. Every time I see a post from a hobbyist/newbie I :roll:. For some time I internally railed against them.

Then came the realization that:

A) They know they are doing business illegally and just don't care (and therefore deserve any repercussions that come their way)

B) They are unaware of the food service laws/regs and need guidance and instruction to become legal (I believe that 99.9% of the folks doing things out of compliance fit this category).

I view my role on this forum as an unpaid consultant. My goal is to assist people by answering their questions and informing them of what it truly is that they are contemplating - going into business - and all the responsibilities that entails.

When we first started thinking about doing Q for the public we had no clue as to the laws regarding public food sales. To be honest it didn't even cross our minds since we never thought of it as a business. That may sound very naive but I bet if you ask 100 people at least 90 will say that very same thing. We did a couple of festival gigs out of our home kitchen. We honestly didn't know any better. After these gigs I started doing some research and found some forums (this one is the very best I have ever come across) and quickly realized that we were at great risk. It was this very forum that helped me to focus on what we needed to do to be legit.

The laws/regs can be very confusing, and sometimes difficult to even find, that most people don't know where or how to find them. I spent a good 3-4 months researching food service regs here in KS before I felt that I had a good handle on what we needed to do to be legal. This is where sources such as this forum can be a Godsend. Here they can have access to people who know the business, from both legal and operational aspects, who can lead them in the right direction.

I understand that it can be frustrating at times to feel like every answer to new posts is a repeat of every past answer. However, I then think back to how I/We got started and realize that I may be helping them to be safe, secure and profitable in a business that they may truly love.

I do have one suggestion for this site. If the Search function was located at the top of the page(s) and was more prominently displayed it might help new Users to find/use it. The majority of webpages locate their Search functions near or at the top so most Users are expecting to find it there. I was using this site for over 6 months before I even noticed it at the bottom of the page(s)

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i put it at the bottom to make it unobtrusive. I have a plane to catch in the AM, so cant do it now, but if you remind me next week, we can try it at the top and see what feedback we get. Send me a PM.. otherwise it will go poof out of the brain.

early mornin' smokin' said:

Trust me, if I could've circumnavigated the DOH, Servsafe, building and fire inspections, I would've. But the truth is, you can't without trying to get yourself shut down.

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That's fine, it's ok to point those things out. A lot of people don't understand the risks and the liability, and there's nothing wrong with educating them on that point. If they decide to go ahead and do it anyway, that's not on you. If they're not stealing business from you, what does it really matter to you in the grand scheme of things? And if they *are* stealing business from you, call the health department and rat them out.

The fact is, anybody can cook. I completely understand your perspective, it's the same problem that wedding photographers (for example) have. Any yahoo with a camera can do wedding photography on the cheap. The fact is though, they might do one or two gigs, then some hacked off wives put an end to that quick. They realize that they saved $1000 over hiring a pro, and got what they paid for. Same deal with the roadside stand. Either they sell a bunch of Q and go legit, or they fail and they're not competition to the legit business owners anymore.

You put in a lot of hard work to get where you are, and that's commendable. You know *why* you had to put in all that hard work too. No sense in getting your blood pressure up when somebody else chooses to take shortcuts. As you well know, there's a pitfall at the end of each of those shortcuts. If you care about the poster, chime in and point out the pitfalls. If not, let 'em fall in one. Either way, no skin off your nose, and no blood pressure meds necessary. :wink:

I understand where the OP is coming from. When I decided to bottle my BBQ sauce I did it the right way. I had it lab tested, got my own UPC barcode and #, had a co-packer make it for me etc. All of which cost me roughly about $5,000 of my own money to get started.

Yet I know three people right now who make their own bbq sauce in their home kitchen and sell at some of the same shows we go to. However, the problem for them is they've limited how far they can go by cutting corners. They cannot get into the Kroger stores (like I have) because you've got to have UPC barcodes and number, proof of insurance etc. So in essence I have nothing to worry about because they've cut their own throats with regard to future success.

I think it is the same with these people the OP is talking about. Consumers aren't stupid. They can quickly tell the difference in a legit, professional operation compared to someone who's trying to fly under the legal radar. By cutting corners these folks have already undermined any type of future success. Sure, they might get a gig here and a gig there. But it won't be anything that will significantly cut into someone who's legit.

At times it does tick me off because I've done it the right way. But I remind myself by cutting corners they have already sunk their business.

From the replies, it looks like I am in a minority here, I AGREE with with everything you say. For years I was a professional fishing guide, I only wish I had 1 cent for every guy that "only wanted to take his friends out". These guys only ruin it for the legitimate people. It is no different in the catering business, these people take jobs from us, and when the customer has a bad or not so great experience, they just dont hire caterers. I have asked questions on here, and received great help, but I am a legitimate business. I had to learn the hard way, I will help anyway I can, but I do agree with having a license and being a "real" business, and doing things the right way.

I know a joint that pulls their chick from the smoker at 145..... 145... then piles it in tubs and places it in a dedicated HOLDING oven at 170 until it all reaches 165... then each tub is introduced to their dedicated 150 holding oven for service.

Best chicken other than mine I have ever had.

Hopefully you see the point.

Now... outside that I understand what you are saying but also think to STOP the freeflow of info here is stupid.

Finally, to let you know I Get what you are saying... one of the frustration I myself have is the pressure of people to cater without the proper credentials in my state.

I always tell them I will return to being a legitimate caterer with Texas credentials and do it right..... an to be caught doing it wrong or to be flagged will forever make myself a target from the local HDs.

I sold a little BBQ on the side under the radar before I went legal. There are several in my area that do it and have been doing it for 15 plus years and are known for it. When I decided to make a business out of it and go legal 5 years ago I gained the most powerful tool in my barbecue arsenal and that is the power to advertise and let people know what we have to offer and my being legal it's allowed me to serve more barbecue that all of the under radar guys combined. The guys that are doing it illegally are getting all of the people looking for low ball barbecue and I get all of the money events (along with other legal q'rs in the area) Yes sometimes I get my skin ruffled by them, especially when the HD knows they are selling and do nothing about it. I have to say if it were not for the Brethren here helping me in the beginning it would have been a much tougher journey. So I try to help when I can but I understand where you are coming from.

I do have to say, at least in my experience out here, any time I have setup a cook, and there have been lots of folks, or it was in a commercial area, I have had health dept. roll up and ask if we were legal. At least from my point of view, the HD has been on the money for taking the large bulk of fly-by-nights off the street. Sure, they may still cater, but, not much you can do about that.

I can see everyone's perspective I guess. My only suggestion maybe is to put the vending and catering in it's own separate forum and cooking for the masses in another separate one. That way if uncle joe is cooking for 100 people for fourth of july he has somewhere to go and the people that need business help have another place to go. Just brainstorming.

BBQchef33 said:

Something else about using the search to get answers.. Our forum goes back 11 years..2 million posts... thats alot of answers... and more importantly, times have changed and some answers from 2005 may not apply today, or there just may be a better way now.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I've been a paying member here for years and know the forums well. I have tried the search thing for the very reasons mentioned and after having waded through pages of search results I've often thought, "Oh fark it, I'll just ask."





As many have already said, this place is where it all started for me. I came here to figure out how to modify an ECB and that was it. The fuse was lit. I was one of the guys posting "HELP! My first brisket!" and "How much pork for 80 people?" and "How can I hold pork for 6 hours?". I got help specifically BECAUSE this place is what it is.

I get what the OP is saying, too, but I also have a hard time believing that every single person out there who runs a legit BBQ restaurant, vending or catering biz dropped tens of thousands of dollars before ever selling their first pound of pork. I think people tend to forget where they came from once they're fully invested. People have to start somewhere. People are GOING to start somewhere. I, for one, am just glad that this place exists to offer people some awesome guidance.

Another thing to consider: if your Q and service is good, your business will surpass your competition, even if you lose out once in a while to "Fred BBQ".

Dadeo719 said:

I can see everyone's perspective I guess. My only suggestion maybe is to put the vending and catering in it's own separate forum and cooking for the masses in another separate one. That way if uncle joe is cooking for 100 people for fourth of july he has somewhere to go and the people that need business help have another place to go. Just brainstorming.

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Dadeo,

I was thinking the very same thing. A "Business" designation could possibly funnel those who are "already legal" away from those who aren't aware that they need to be? Maybe call it "The Business of BBQ: Vending & Catering". Just adding my brainstorming. :mrgreen:

Why I love this forum

I just spent money on a lawyer to ensure my rights to "White Plate BBQ". Now I have to ask him to throw in "Fred's BBQ" as a freebie :roll: just because it will now have huge hits on Google. Do you know how much sway this site has with Google?

Now if a person wanted to shamefully increase their exposure to search engines... they might reply to a related post with with the name of what they wanted to market. Mentioning the name of the search engine does not hurt either.

Personally, I see the Brethren as an altruistic entity that let's you be a little selfish once in a while, but knows you'll pay it forward when someone needs it.

Fred (now of Fred's BBQ)

bizznessman said:

Dadeo,

I was thinking the very same thing. A "Business" designation could possibly funnel those who are "already legal" away from those who aren't aware that they need to be? Maybe call it "The Business of BBQ: Vending & Catering". Just adding my brainstorming. :mrgreen:

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I occasionally participate on a mechanical trades blog. Similar issues as HO's are always trying to get info, beat down contractor's price, etc. They have 2 levels of membership. Anyone can access a limited number of threads. Once you prove your a tech, contractor, business owner, there's access to the entire board. Just offering another point of view.

Now granted I fall under the category of "cooking for the masses" more often than not but I truly appreciate all the help I get here. This site is usually the first site I look at when I log on and the last before bed. I do however use temporary permits when we occasionally do vending so I am aware of those laws only because of you guys. I have no idea how hard it would be to make another category or if that is even in the spirit of the Brethren to do that.

The Catering page helped me three years ago when I wanted to cook for my best friends bachelor party.
If I had not done that(sought advise on this forum;cooked some wings, abt's, and pulled pork that weekend), I would have never heard one of our friends say, "Moe, you need to be selling this."
And that was the spark. Now catering for two years, I still ask questions and try to answer questions on the Catering page.
But the point is, it all started when I was not licensed, not certified, not cooking in a commercial kitchen. i.e. Cooking for the masses.
If this page helps another man or woman follow a similar path, or even help another person avoid a path they aren't fit for, the page is doing it's job.

The natural progression of the BBQ caterer starts with those off-hand gigs like a buddies bachelor party, or your own family reunion.
Love this page.
Early Morn has been immensely helpful in answering some of my questions and I can understand the frustration. He's a pro.