boogiesnap
Babbling Farker
anybody know what that is?
just curious.
just curious.
article 15 KCBS sanction app.
- Thread starter boogiesnap
- Start date
ModelMaker
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Curiosity got the better of me.
"15. I will use best possible efforts to donate to KCBS one free entry for a team, which will be used to promote our contest at the annual banquet and as part of the KCBS events at the banquet."
Is this what you were refering to? Looks pretty self explanitory.
It's on the KCBS site under "forms"
Ed
"15. I will use best possible efforts to donate to KCBS one free entry for a team, which will be used to promote our contest at the annual banquet and as part of the KCBS events at the banquet."
Is this what you were refering to? Looks pretty self explanitory.
It's on the KCBS site under "forms"
Ed
boogiesnap
Babbling Farker
yes, that was it. after re-reading a couple times, though the wording is wonky, i think i understand what it means.
"i will donate to a team an entry to the KCBS banquet to represent...."
"i will donate to a team an entry to the KCBS banquet to represent...."
i know i will probably get lit up for this.. and maybe its just left over from the somewhat bad taste in my mouth from the mess with the AR as well as other stuff...
but an organizer pays...
350 bucks to get listed....
then $12 or $17 bucks per team... 50 team event.. $600/$850
plus 100 bucks per catagory over 4
plus reps expenses and a per diem
Sanctioning fees can run close to $1500 if not more for a 50 team event.
and on top of all that, they also want organizers to 'donate' a $200-$300, maybe $350 spot. That $$ comes out of the prize pool, or the contests funds. How about to be fair.. they reduce the sanctioning fee by one spot(or at least discount it) in return for an entry?
but an organizer pays...
350 bucks to get listed....
then $12 or $17 bucks per team... 50 team event.. $600/$850
plus 100 bucks per catagory over 4
plus reps expenses and a per diem
Sanctioning fees can run close to $1500 if not more for a 50 team event.
and on top of all that, they also want organizers to 'donate' a $200-$300, maybe $350 spot. That $$ comes out of the prize pool, or the contests funds. How about to be fair.. they reduce the sanctioning fee by one spot(or at least discount it) in return for an entry?
boogiesnap
Babbling Farker
maybe i don't understand.
to what event is the organizer to do his/her best to donate an entry?
i assumed it was the annual banquet; does that entry flucuate in price?
really not looking to incite or flame, or "start up", just honestly curious.
to what event is the organizer to do his/her best to donate an entry?
i assumed it was the annual banquet; does that entry flucuate in price?
really not looking to incite or flame, or "start up", just honestly curious.
Red Valley BBQ
is one Smokin' Farker
KCBS wants an organizer to donate an entry to the organizers event the following year so the KCBS can auction it off at the banquet.
I'm with the PooBah on this one. But you left one little thing out, the KCBS makes money from the entry being auctioned too.
I'm with the PooBah on this one. But you left one little thing out, the KCBS makes money from the entry being auctioned too.
boogiesnap
Babbling Farker
i did not, then, understand.
sorry, i'm still green.
thanks for clarifying.
*edit* now i understand phil's post.
sorry, i'm still green.
thanks for clarifying.
*edit* now i understand phil's post.
Smokedelic
Full Fledged Farker
I'm probably wrong here, but I thought the proceeds from the auctioned contest entries went to Kookers Kare, not KCBS.
boogiesnap
Babbling Farker
if that's true it's a shame it is not more well known.
Speaking solely for myself, and not KCBS or the board...
I believe you are correct, and will confirm as soon as the office is open this morning.
I understand Phil's point as well. The fee structure for additional teams declines, as more teams are added. That info is available online in the organizers packet for those that would like to review it. I'll also point out that in the event that a contest adds 3-4 ancillary/additional categories they are essentially running two contests based on the potential number of turn ins. If that is spread over two days, traditionally Sat.-Sun. in the NE expenses to the organizer for Rep per diem and lodging etc. go up. KCBS never sees a nickel of that.
It's not my intent to light Phil up:becky: He's raised this issue with me privately, before, and that courtesy was appreciated. My response was that I'd be happy to look at alternatives if he could propose some that wouldn't be dead on arrival. It's important to me, but at the moment I have other issues on my plate that need attention first.
drbbq
is Blowin Smoke!
Maybe if these were donated entries were really respected and created new teams attending the contests it would be a good thing.
But anybody who has seen the raffle and ensuing frenzy of teams trading and low balling to get a deal on the entry for a contest THAT THEY WERE GOING TO ANYWAY knows that it's little more than a fundraiser. KCBS used to keep the money. If it now goes to Kookers Kare it should be promoted eas such.
If I were an organizer I would decline and use the donation within my own world.
Capn Kev
is one Smokin' Farker
I agree with Ray and Phil. Either announce that all proceeds go to Kookers Kare, or get rid of the item on the application.
MoKanMeathead
is Blowin Smoke!
The proceeds from the KCBS raffles DO NOT go to Kookers Kare...it ALL goes to KCBS. Kookers Kare has its own banquet and have thier own donated entries that do go to their causes. KCBS and Kookers Kare are completely separate organizations. That being said, KCBS does help Kookers Kare just like they help other not-for-profit organizations.
MoKan Wayn is correct. What I was remembering was the gift basket raffle for Kookers Kare, that used to happen at the banquet before the KCBS banquet began to travel.
YankeeBBQ
is Blowin Smoke!
I'll probably step in it with this post ....
What's wrong with KCBS requesting that an organizer donate an entry ? Its in the contract. We don't ask organizers to give discounts or any special benefits to KCBS members I see this as a way to provide a benefit to KCBS members and a way to raise some funds that can go towards paying Team of the Year and some of the charitable things that KCBS does.
If you've ever been to a banquet then you know this is the highlight of the evening for most people. You can participate by either buying a raffle ticket and trying to win an entry or you can barter with a person who wins the entry to get a discount to a contest you want to attend.
What's wrong with KCBS requesting that an organizer donate an entry ? Its in the contract. We don't ask organizers to give discounts or any special benefits to KCBS members I see this as a way to provide a benefit to KCBS members and a way to raise some funds that can go towards paying Team of the Year and some of the charitable things that KCBS does.
If you've ever been to a banquet then you know this is the highlight of the evening for most people. You can participate by either buying a raffle ticket and trying to win an entry or you can barter with a person who wins the entry to get a discount to a contest you want to attend.
Q Haven
is one Smokin' Farker
It is my understanding as an occasional organizer that for an ancillary contest, KCBS gets $100 and $5 per team, per category. Well that is what they collected from me on top of my costs/expenses/etc for the KCBS four meat contest.
Scottie
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Solets say they sold $15,000 worth of raffle tickets at the banquet thisvyear. Where does that money go? may I suggest, to all the BOD members that *may* read this.. This would be another awesome way for the Philanthropy account to be funded.. Or we can use it for a 'slush fund' for Sam's like was used last year..... 
OK, I just had to use the slush fund reference that was used last year by the BOD. Or maybe even the International Innitiative?
But it would be nice to give it back. Its not like a budgeted income line...
OK, I just had to use the slush fund reference that was used last year by the BOD. Or maybe even the International Innitiative? But it would be nice to give it back. Its not like a budgeted income line...
dmprantz
is Blowin Smoke!
I'll start out by saying that I am not, nor have I ever been, a contest organizer. I am not speaking directly on behalf of any, but as a competitor, I'll tell you my POV, FWIW:
What's wrong is that you don't ask for it. You contractually obligate organizers to make a "best effort" to give it to you. As Phil said, it's an expense on top of the santctioning fees, insurance, rep expenses, and team fees that organizers already pay to KCBS. If you simply asked for donations, that would be one thing, but to "require" is something different...
Unless you're going to officially say that the KCBS specifically does this because you can't or don't give other bennefits to members, it doesn't matter what you don't do in this case. That's subterfuge. It matters what you do.
Correction for the sake of honesty: It's a way to help members who attend the banquet and those who know them. It doesn't help all members, nor is it really restricted to members only.
So are you saying that in addition to paying sacntioning fees, organizers are supposed to fund the KCBS' TOY program? Many (if not most) competitions already have proceeds going to charity. The other way of looking at this is that KCBS is taking away an organizers abillity to direct proceeds to his own charity.
Maybe since I'm not an organizer I shouldn't speak my mind on this issue, but it does trickle down and affect competitors: Competition entry or ice fees can go up and prize pools can go down as a result of this. I was not aware until this thread that organizers were "required" to make this donation, but I find it odd. At this point, based on this an other recent threads, organizers are expected to pay KCBS for sanctioning, teams pay KCBS for participating in sanctioned events, KCBS then wants another $250 out of the organizers pocket to fund, what, TOY and charity? And competitors are told that on top of all those fees and donations, they aren't "supporting KCBS" unless they pay $35 a year to receive marginal bennefits....and all this while KCBS is decreasing the services they provide to organizers and teams and delivering late products. Stop the bleeding please.
dmp
What's wrong is that you don't ask for it. You contractually obligate organizers to make a "best effort" to give it to you. As Phil said, it's an expense on top of the santctioning fees, insurance, rep expenses, and team fees that organizers already pay to KCBS. If you simply asked for donations, that would be one thing, but to "require" is something different...
Unless you're going to officially say that the KCBS specifically does this because you can't or don't give other bennefits to members, it doesn't matter what you don't do in this case. That's subterfuge. It matters what you do.
Correction for the sake of honesty: It's a way to help members who attend the banquet and those who know them. It doesn't help all members, nor is it really restricted to members only.
So are you saying that in addition to paying sacntioning fees, organizers are supposed to fund the KCBS' TOY program? Many (if not most) competitions already have proceeds going to charity. The other way of looking at this is that KCBS is taking away an organizers abillity to direct proceeds to his own charity.
Maybe since I'm not an organizer I shouldn't speak my mind on this issue, but it does trickle down and affect competitors: Competition entry or ice fees can go up and prize pools can go down as a result of this. I was not aware until this thread that organizers were "required" to make this donation, but I find it odd. At this point, based on this an other recent threads, organizers are expected to pay KCBS for sanctioning, teams pay KCBS for participating in sanctioned events, KCBS then wants another $250 out of the organizers pocket to fund, what, TOY and charity? And competitors are told that on top of all those fees and donations, they aren't "supporting KCBS" unless they pay $35 a year to receive marginal bennefits....and all this while KCBS is decreasing the services they provide to organizers and teams and delivering late products. Stop the bleeding please.
dmp
