Let's talk pork ... wondering if the taste profile has changed?

KC_Bobby

KC_Bobby

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Throughout 2008-10 pork was a very consistent category for us, it earned calls regularly. When it didn't get a call it was generally right outside the top scores and never killed us overall.

This year, the pork has taken a nosedive. For the life of me, I can't think of anything we're doing differently in purchase, prep, cook or box.

Wondering if others have had similar experiences with pork this year?
 
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Same thing happened to my brisket this year. I'm thinking the judges want pot roast not brisket. No idea on pork, except maybe use Yardbird and Smoke on Wheels......seems to work for them.
 
Bob great topic hope people chime in! The best we have done in pork is 2nd out of 192 at Lenexa last year, looking at the pics recently it looked good. Comp BBQ I think is becoming a coin toss weekend and week out!
 
2 - 2nd
1 - 3rd
1 - 4th
1 - 6th

In our last 5 events in pork....before our most recent changes...our 5 previous contests in pork were as follows:

9th
10th
6th
28th
29th

Changes: We got really salty on our rub and painted our pieces with super sweet sauce, both are our own recipe. I can't give any more specific information or I'll have to answer to Top Men. It literally has gone from easily our worst category to arguably our best.
 
i've only done 2 KCBS contests so i'm not much of a resource on the topic, but, i'll offer that i made 1 simple change from the first to the next and went from 22nd to 5th in pork.

for 5th, i too painted each piece with a pretty sticky sweet red sauce.
 
Taste "profile" is always a moving target. You have to keep up with what the competition and even the regional market is doing.

Hey, if it was easy everyone would score 180. :mrgreen:
 
I think it has changed for sure. I've been doing the same pork for six years and have had great results including 5th place pork TOY, Butt to Butt 11 Champion, Butt to Butt 12 Reserve Champion, Great American 1st Place, American Royal 1st Place, and several contest 1st place finishes. In 2008-2009 a pork call wasn't even a question. I could always count on a call and most of the time a high call. It was money. Now, I'm mostly miss and sometimes a low hit. Made a few major changes this last weekend and hit 2nd place with a 172+.

Still using my tried and true injection, though. Ancient Chinese secret... unless you've taken one of my classes!

Good luck finding your new path. Darren of Iowa's Smokey D's and I have been talking "lost pork" this last month. Like me, he's cooked the same pork for years with strong results. When your go to recipe isn't hitting, you feel like a rookie cook again and don't know where to go next. It is like ground zero.
 
This is a puzzle since the judging criteria have not changed.

Be interesting to know if you ran into some of the same judges contest to contest.
KCBS judges tracking still not in place and running.

I would be surprised if there was an easy obvious answer here. Probably a mix of reasons plus luck ( unluck) of the draw about what table you were judged at.

Would be good to know what the actual scores were to see where you were losing points.
 
Is it possible that with the popularity in competition bbq growing that the *average* team is significantly better than you'd see a few years ago? If so, then it is going to be more of a "which table you land on" type of thing. That's a question for judges; the ones who've judged the same competitions over the last 8+- years. What's changed?
 
Lake Dogs said:
Is it possible that with the popularity in competition bbq growing that the *average* team is significantly better than you'd see a few years ago? If so, then it is going to be more of a "which table you land on" type of thing. That's a question for judges; the ones who've judged the same competitions over the last 8+- years. What's changed?
Click to expand...

I think that's part of it, and the stats make that pretty clear. There are two teams that are pretty dialed in. One racking up quite a few RGCs.

I think that classes and the internet are playing a role. The learning curve is a lot shorter, and product becomes similar. It's also pretty easy to sit down at the keyboard, place the order and get the same ingredients that just about everybody else is ordering.

That draws the field closer together. The teams that figure out a way to set themselves apart, and appeal to the judges in a positive way are ahead of the curve.
 
Maybe judges are getting tired of the same rubs,sauces,etc with many entries....need some way to differentiate your entry in a good way?
As for me, pork has taken over chicken as my worst category
I have been receiving okay taste scores and terrible tenderness even when I have cooked to different temps in different contests.
Going back to the KISS method with a really good sauce
 
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Lake Dogs said:
Is it possible that with the popularity in competition bbq growing that the *average* team is significantly better than you'd see a few years ago? If so, then it is going to be more of a "which table you land on" type of thing. That's a question for judges; the ones who've judged the same competitions over the last 8+- years. What's changed?
Click to expand...

Jorge said:
I think that's part of it, and the stats make that pretty clear. There are two teams that are pretty dialed in. One racking up quite a few RGCs.

I think that classes and the internet are playing a role. The learning curve is a lot shorter, and product becomes similar. It's also pretty easy to sit down at the keyboard, place the order and get the same ingredients that just about everybody else is ordering.

That draws the field closer together. The teams that figure out a way to set themselves apart, and appeal to the judges in a positive way are ahead of the curve.
Click to expand...

If true that teams are just getting better, then it would mean that the overall scores are getting that much higher. That isn't the case. It isn't just about placement in the field of teams, it is about the number of 8's and 9's you are getting. Since judges don't, theoretically, compare teams, then what I'm saying about scores being overall higher would be true. I'm just not seeing that. I'm seeing scores staying the same, but teams with different recipes moving around in the field. That tells me that there's a shift in what's winning. Could be presentation style changes that are affecting that as much as taste.
 
I'd definitely be interested to hear from some long time CBJ's who've judged pretty much the same competitions year after year (compare apples to apples, just different years) and see what they have to say.

From and MBN approach, here in this region, we've seen a shift away from Memphis ribs to sauced. Otherwise, that I know of, the flavor profiles that won 4+ years ago tend to win still. That's MBN; I'm certain that FBA (this region) and KCBS have seen different trends altogether. I'd be interested in what folks see.
 
We were ranked 6th in overall KCBS pork standings in 2009...last year we ranked 13th. This year, even though we have only cooked 5 contests, we have YET to break the top 10. We have not changed one single thing about our pork in 2 1/2 years. Yes, I believe the profile is sliding away from our traditional western NC vinegar based sauce......
 
has pork changed

I have been judging for several years. Over the last two years the pork entry has changed more than any other entry. When I first started judging the pork entry was a pile of pulled pork in the center of the box. Today I see a combination of pulled, money meat, bark, fingers, tubes. The better entrys offer a wide selection of eye appeal, taste appeal, and profiles. A pile of chopped, pulled pork in the center of the box is average at best. Chicken is also changing fast this year. Brisket cannot only be tender it must have a good taste profile. There are also more judges with 15 to 30 contests under their belt and it takes more to get high scores. Hope this helps.
 
Plowboy said:
I think it has changed for sure. I've been doing the same pork for six years and have had great results including 5th place pork TOY, Butt to Butt 11 Champion, Butt to Butt 12 Reserve Champion, Great American 1st Place, American Royal 1st Place, and several contest 1st place finishes. In 2008-2009 a pork call wasn't even a question. I could always count on a call and most of the time a high call. It was money. Now, I'm mostly miss and sometimes a low hit. Made a few major changes this last weekend and hit 2nd place with a 172+.

Still using my tried and true injection, though. Ancient Chinese secret... unless you've taken one of my classes!

Good luck finding your new path. Darren of Iowa's Smokey D's and I have been talking "lost pork" this last month. Like me, he's cooked the same pork for years with strong results. When your go to recipe isn't hitting, you feel like a rookie cook again and don't know where to go next. It is like ground zero.
Click to expand...

This sums up my feelings/experiences on pork well.
 
I am wondering if there is another factor, that with the increasing popularity of BBQ, that there are more people getting into judging, and those people have a different take on good BBQ. Although there are all the rules about not comparing one to another and not having preconceived ideas of what BBQ is, it seems that the shift could be just more judges.
 
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