Pork collar snake river

Jorge · Jan 27, 2011

roksmith said:
Completely agree. Now, if you call them up and specifically ask for one that is 5.1 lbs.. is it legal?

..that's assuming that it is indeed a special trim of a regular butt.
..btw I have an email into them asking what the heck it is and why they advertise it as for BBQ comps when it's under 5lbs.

Based on pictures I've seen there is no standard in the US, and that's a huge part of the issue.

There is a huge opportunity for growth in competition BBQ at this point. KCBS and cooks, both have an obligation to deal with it responsibly at this point. If it turns into boxing, with the corruption and cheating, it's dead. If it's managed properly there is the opportunity for growth that can benefit everyone.

I hope enough people get that, because the window of opportunity isn't going to be open forever.

Finney · Jan 27, 2011

DivaHerself said:
What's hilarious is that people will turn themselves inside out trying to skate on the thin edge of logistics when a pork butt is the most forgiving meat in the lineup.

Hey, I buy my butts at Sam's, RD, or the supermarket... I'm just debating the legalities of the cut... :becky:

roksmith · Jan 27, 2011

I'm just arguing because it's fun.

btw... do we sanction any events in Boston? If so, better take your Boston Butt with you. They don't call them Boston Butts there either.

drbbq · Jan 27, 2011

dmprantz said:
Now I'll go back to one of my original questions on this thread: Are you saying that people are cheaters because it has a different name or because it is something else?

dmp

I'm not getting into the hair splitting and nit picking. A butt is a butt and if those things are butts and they weigh over 5 lbs they're legal.
When somebody gets beat out of big money with one we're probably going to find out from a court.

Maybe somebody should ask SRF to change the name. And then maybe there's some obscure country that considers 4lbs to be the same as 5 lbs in the US. Then we'll be all set.

drbbq · Jan 27, 2011

DivaHerself said:
What's hilarious is that people will turn themselves inside out trying to skate on the thin edge of logistics when a pork butt is the most forgiving meat in the lineup.

Well it is the internet.

Plowboy · Jan 27, 2011

Is there an official KCBS position on these Collar cuts, specifically? I mean, have they addressed the issue at hand through a communication. Before this thread, I would have said that they clearly were outside of the allowable cuts. Now with all of the lack of standards and names around the cut, I'm now confused. KCBS needs to issue a position press release.

ique · Jan 27, 2011

DivaHerself said:
What's hilarious is that people will turn themselves inside out trying to skate on the thin edge of logistics when a pork butt is the most forgiving meat in the lineup.

The collar is a pork butt. There is no thin ice unless its under 5lb.

FYI, I've never used that product from SRF

swamprb · Jan 27, 2011

**Five Pounds of Controversy!!**

Pulled some out of the freezer just to see what they weighed since they are unmarked, and surprise, surprise!!

Legal!!

I should probably learn to cook them and win or just stick with the Farmland or IBP butts!

Plowboy · Jan 27, 2011

drbbq said:
I'm not getting into the hair splitting and nit picking. A butt is a butt and if those things are butts and they weigh over 5 lbs they're legal.
When somebody gets beat out of big money with one we're probably going to find out from a court.

Maybe somebody should ask SRF to change the name. And then maybe there's some obscure country that considers 4lbs to be the same as 5 lbs in the US. Then we'll be all set.

I wonder if they have a 5+ lb version, too. We could be assuming that they are all 4 lbs. The language on their site could be a guide for pricing and average size. Dunno.

Plowboy · Jan 27, 2011

ique said:
The collar is a pork butt. There is no thin ice unless its under 5lb.

FYI, I've never used that product from SRF

But are you saying you've used a similar product from someone else? If so, what and how did it work? :-D

swamprb · Jan 27, 2011

Plowboy said:
But are you saying you've used a similar product from someone else? If so, what and how did it work? :-D

This could be the thread killer!

drbbq · Jan 27, 2011

swamprb said:
Pulled some out of the freezer just to see what they weighed since they are unmarked, and surprise, surprise!!

Legal!!

I should probably learn to cook them and win or just stick with the Farmland or IBP butts!

Do you think it's the same cut as those Farmland Butts?

AZScott · Jan 27, 2011

I'd love to see what it looks like sliced. I've said it before but the heritage (Berk and Hampshire) pork butts I've experimented with has too much fat for my taste and visually it isn't appealing when the mm is sliced. The taste is good but by the time it's injected, seasoned, and sauced the meat is accented with so many other flavors it isn't worth the money.

swamprb · Jan 27, 2011

drbbq said:
Do you think it's the same cut as those Farmland Butts?

I was just looking at some 4+lb Farmland butts at the local QFC (Krogers) and no, they didn't look like the CT Butts.
But I do know when they advertise them at $.99 lb I have scramble to get the cryopacks!

swamprb · Jan 27, 2011

P01Shooter said:
I'd love to see what it looks like sliced. I've said it before but the heritage (Berk and Hampshire) pork butts I've experimented with has too much fat for my taste and visually it isn't appealing when the mm is sliced. The taste is good but by the time it's injected, seasoned, and sauced the meat is accented with so many other flavors it isn't worth the money.

The only time we cooked one at a comp, with the intention of slicing, we felt it was not as good as the MM from the whole butt.

Plowboy · Jan 27, 2011

swamprb said:
This could be the thread killer!

Let's hope so. God help us all.

Slamdunkpro · Jan 27, 2011

I was curious enough to call my contact at Smithfield. She put me in touch with the fresh meat group and this is the answer I got to the question "What, if anything is the difference between a collar butt and a Boston Butt?"

A collar butt is the European equivalent of a US Boston butt, BUT European processors cut or "break" the animal differently than we do. US processors typically break the animal at the 1st rostral rib. European processors typically break them at the 4th rostral rib so a European butt (Collar or Boston) will have more loin meat on it and usually be larger than a US Boston. He told me that some US processors have started cutting butts European style, trimming out the forward portion of the shoulder and labeling those as collar as opposed to Boston to differentiate them. Then again some US processors have simply started using the collar designation interchangeably with Boston.

In other words "it depends":becky:

Smokin' Joe · Jan 27, 2011

Plowboy said:
I wonder if they have a 5+ lb version, too. We could be assuming that they are all 4 lbs. The language on their site could be a guide for pricing and average size. Dunno.

That could be a good point Todd, my guess is the 4lbs is a guide...The briskets I ordered from SRF this summer said 14lbs on the website and I never got one under 17lbs. FWIW I've never seen/touched/cooked a "pork collar" from SRF or anyone else. But would like to see KCBS clarify their position:becky:

dmprantz · Jan 27, 2011

Slamdunkpro said:
A collar butt is the European equivalent of a US Boston butt, BUT European processors cut or "break" the animal differently than we do....a European butt (Collar or Boston) will have more loin meat on it and usually be larger than a US Boston....some US processors have simply started using the collar designation interchangeably with Boston.

Very interesting, thanks! Presuming this is accurate (and I have no reason to suspect it's not) it sounds like this could get quite confusing, and some butts may have more MM on them than others. I would guess some one should ask the KCBS if they consider a European cut butt legal, and if not, clarify in the rules that the cuts defined should conform to IMPS/NAMP standards and definitions....that is if you're really concerned that some one is going to use a European butt and shouldn't. Anything short of that is playing word games and semantics, or leaving too much undocumented IMO.

FWIW, the Rules committee is actively reviewing rule changes right now, so it would be a good time to do it!

dmp

Butcher BBQ · Jan 27, 2011

dmprantz said:
Very interesting, thanks! Presuming this is accurate (and I have no reason to suspect it's not) it sounds like this could get quite confusing, and some butts may have more MM on them than others. I would guess someone should ask the KCBS if they consider a European cut butt legal, and if not, clarify in the rules that the cuts defined should conform to IMPS/NAMP standards and definitions....that is if you're really concerned that someone is going to use a European butt and shouldn't. Anything short of that is playing word games and semantics, or leaving too much undocumented IMO.

FWIW, the Rules committee is actively reviewing rule changes right now, so it would be a good time to do it!

dmp

Bingo that is exactly what it is, they have a standard way of breaking right along with the French, and Austria. I had a lengthy conversation with a BOD member last night about adopting the standard US primal description and location of muscle for pork. The post I made yesterday with all the cutting dimension from the animal is the US recognized way of breaking and selling Pork Shoulder Butts and the collar meat is not part of the method.

Without using a standardized process reading the rules as written you could cook a whole pork loin and front shoulder connected (as one) as long as the butcher called it a butt.

Pork collar snake river

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