F
Possible KCBS rules changes
- Thread starter Lake Dogs
- Start date
BRBBQ
Babbling Farker
I wish they'd get rid of garnish it's a waste of money, for the team that is.
Usually it's just thrown away.
Usually it's just thrown away.
Gowan
is One Chatty Farker
My personal take is garnish is good, but kale should be allowed. It's the perfect garnish - looks great, cheap, simple to prep and it takes a blowtorch to wilt the stuff. I use it exclusively in non-sanctioned contests and it takes less than three minutes for me to build a kale box, a fraction of the time required for parsley.
Jeff_in_KC
somebody shut me the fark up.
Not me... I don't start laughing til I get the check at the awards ceremony confirming how nice my boxes look.
Are you SERIOUS about this??? :shock: You think it's unfair to new teams who don't know what to put in their boxes??? Let me say this - and it's not a knock on new teams because we've ALL been there - but most new teams don't have a clue what to put in their boxes when it comes to garnish OR meat! That's just the way it is. And you know what... they LEARN. They can learn how to garnish just like they learn how to cook and what to cook. Like Phil says - anyone can cook great BBQ but you have to learn HOW to compete. Garnish is part of that. If we were gonna be fair to all the new teams, we'd explain step by step, give them our recipes and build their boxes for them.
This I have proposed.
So you spent money on culinary school and still can't make a parsley bed look good? :lol: It's still about the meat, regardless of whether or not parsley and lettuce are there.
How do you know? Maybe they do. Have you ever been to a parsley contest to be able to definitively make this statement? :wink:
chopshop
Knows what a fatty is.
well now i now who the parsley bandit is. when they were discussing the parsley topic at the kcbs banquet were you the guy holding the sign that said "parsley has feelings too!! LET THEM STAY IN THE BOX"
my boxes look good i hired the local landscaper to get them ready. I too was a new team( ocean county pig assassins) at the 06 guitarbeque and was unsure of what to put in the box for garnish. i think we added a few sprigs of parsley in fear of being disqualified for some silly garnish rule. i think we took a 4th in brisket and 6th in chicken. not bad for 3 drunks cooking on a 25 dollar smoker who never smoked a piece of meat in their lives. if it werent for the old douche next to us who misinformed us on the way we should garnish our boxes we probably would have done better. if you disagree your full of s---! If it were about the meat and only the meat then there would be no parsley in the box. Why is it every time a new suggestion comes out people jump all over it? probably because half the people who compete are not cooks simply people who read a piece of paper the entire contest that tells them when to flip it when to spray it when to take a leak. god forbid there is a change then they have to go back and revise their BBQ schedule. like you i laugh all the way up to the stage to collect the check but i wish i didnt have to sit and pick parsley instead of drinking my vodka. well i got to go i have to go check out what evryone is crying about in the "should we let LP cookers into the kcbs events" section
Kosmo's Q
is one Smokin' Farker
KCBS should have an onsite judge. Thats all I'm saying.:biggrin:
chopshop
Knows what a fatty is.
you aint lyin
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chopshop
Knows what a fatty is.
and BBQs your BFF too, right? This chit sounds mighty familiar.
im fat all food is my BFF. Whats familiar about it?
F
Finney
Guest
You guys are starting to make my head hurt.
Plowboy
somebody shut me the fark up.
He made up for it by saying camouflage.
tmcmaster
is Blowin Smoke!
I was just re-reading this thread, and wanted to call attention to how much I love this line...
SirPorkaLot
somebody shut me the fark up.
With all due respect.
Garnish is dumb. Plain and simple.
It should be about the Q, not about how pretty your garnish is.
All these arguments that it makes KCBS unique or as long as so & so is involved...are fairly lame arguments.
It is the same old story " we've always done it this way" Anyone involved in any type of management knows that this statement is the death knell of creativity.
KCBS is where it is at today as the top sanctioning body in BBQ due to several factors, none of them are garnish IMHO.
Losing garnish will not effect the KCBS brand, nor tarnish it's luster. If anything it will create better parity among judging because the criteria will be easier to understand & execute.
My 2 cents
Garnish is dumb. Plain and simple.
It should be about the Q, not about how pretty your garnish is.
All these arguments that it makes KCBS unique or as long as so & so is involved...are fairly lame arguments.
It is the same old story " we've always done it this way" Anyone involved in any type of management knows that this statement is the death knell of creativity.
KCBS is where it is at today as the top sanctioning body in BBQ due to several factors, none of them are garnish IMHO.
Losing garnish will not effect the KCBS brand, nor tarnish it's luster. If anything it will create better parity among judging because the criteria will be easier to understand & execute.
My 2 cents
Lake Dogs
Quintessential Chatty Farker
> Originally Posted by DivaHerself 
> Everybody's got their own hurdles, and the only place the playing
> field is perfectly level is inside that 9x9 styrofoam box.
>
> I was just re-reading this thread, and wanted to call attention to how
> much I love this line...
I liked it too. It's cute, and true. However, doesn't have anything to
do with the subject matter. Garnish, or not. Allowed, or not. The playing
field is level, and this subject wont change it a bit. Cute, and moot.
> Everybody's got their own hurdles, and the only place the playing
> field is perfectly level is inside that 9x9 styrofoam box.
>
> I was just re-reading this thread, and wanted to call attention to how
> much I love this line...
I liked it too. It's cute, and true. However, doesn't have anything to
do with the subject matter. Garnish, or not. Allowed, or not. The playing
field is level, and this subject wont change it a bit. Cute, and moot.
Lake Dogs
Quintessential Chatty Farker
LOL. You pot stirrer you!!!
I, for one, enjoy the on site. However, it's also a big pain in the butt,
requires you to cook a LOT more meat, and frankly introduces the non-blind
aspect in to it. Luckily, the scores there are weighted very low (in MBN).
But, it is a fun difference. If it weren't my home cookoff, I wouldn't do
one (an MBN cookoff) because of the volume of meat cooked and the
extra crap required. The $1,000 for KCBS to roll out of the driveway
quickly jumps to $1,600 for just 2 of the 3 events. Whole hog, another
pain-in-the-butt altogether...
Onsite? The BGE folks will LOVE this idea. NOT. Tripple their cookers...
Jeff_in_KC
somebody shut me the fark up.
So you can't make a nice looking parsely putting green? Is that what you're telling us?
Lame or not, the KCBS has a deep respect for it's late founder, Gary Wells, and the way he set it up and envisioned it and as long as his wife is Executive Director, it's not going anywhere. I think at the heart of everything, some people who defend garnish do so out of respect for the person responsible for our organization. That's a battle haters are never going to win.
And speaking of the "death knell of creativity", let's see how creative you can get with a single sheet of foil. :roll: You know, it is also said that change for change sake is ridiculous as well.
At the end of the day, garnish is still OPTIONAL. That means you may use it or you may choose not to (in case anyone was wondering). If you don't like it, don't want to waste your money or time, don't like wasting food or taking a chance on poisoning judges with E coli, just don't use it.
Man! I gotta get a job SOON! :lol:
SirPorkaLot
somebody shut me the fark up.
Exactly
:roll:For one I am not a hater by any means....and I can respect...the respect..if you will.
I place a high value on traditions, and understand the resistance to change, but still struggle to understand how garnish adds anything to the process.
It is not optional....if you want to win...Can anyone name a top 5 winner in KCBS that submitted a box without garnish?
Of course that goes back to traditions as well.
Much like Chicken..it doesn't matter how good your chicken is cooked (or tastes), if it is not a perfectly manicured thigh - you will not be getting a call.
We can debate it until we are blue in the face, but customs are hard to break, and I doubt the rules will ever be changed to reflect reality, so we will continue to compete using the rules we are given.
However the debate does do some good, as it gets people to thinking and discussing other options.
Scottie
Quintessential Chatty Farker
I have finished in the top 5 in categories and overall without using garnish. It froze in my frig and none of it was any good. I got creative and filled the box. So it can be done.
Just some quick thoughts. Jeff well stated. I believe big time in traditions and/or history. It is what these foundations of great things are built. To change them, just because the vocal minority wants to, is ridiculous.
I would also bet that the majority of the vocal minority are inexperienced cooks, who have competed less than a handful of times. It's funny, I never hear people beotch about garnished boxes at comps. Went to one last year in Massachusetts, no one complained about not being able to use parsley. Everyone just went on with their business and did it with lettuce. It's what has made and separated KCBS from other sanctioning bodies. When you are at the top, folks take shots.
I hate to say it folks. If you don't like it, I'd suggest finding a new sanctioining body. It's been nice knowing you. Hope to see you soon. As long as KCBS is king, expect greens.
Just some quick thoughts. Jeff well stated. I believe big time in traditions and/or history. It is what these foundations of great things are built. To change them, just because the vocal minority wants to, is ridiculous.
I would also bet that the majority of the vocal minority are inexperienced cooks, who have competed less than a handful of times. It's funny, I never hear people beotch about garnished boxes at comps. Went to one last year in Massachusetts, no one complained about not being able to use parsley. Everyone just went on with their business and did it with lettuce. It's what has made and separated KCBS from other sanctioning bodies. When you are at the top, folks take shots.
I hate to say it folks. If you don't like it, I'd suggest finding a new sanctioining body. It's been nice knowing you. Hope to see you soon. As long as KCBS is king, expect greens.
Lake Dogs
Quintessential Chatty Farker
> To change them, just because the vocal minority wants to, is ridiculous.
So far, I haven't seen anyone disagree with this. It would be ridiculous.
> I would also bet that the majority of the vocal minority are
> inexperienced cooks, who have competed less than a handful of times
Hard to say. I have, what.... many comps with various team names (dont
know the number, maybe 30?), and another 40+ judged (as best I can recall).
This is just BBQ. More often than not we're competing in chili cookoffs... That's
why the actual counts are hazy. However, you're right on one
point, only 1 KCBS event so far. The rest have been FBA, GBA, MIM,
and MBN. KCBS has very little traction in Georgia (as compared to
the whole/total).
However, all that aside, lets say you're correct in that 90% of the folks
who would like to see it changed (doesn't mean they're beotching) have
less than 5 cookoffs under their belt. The question is: Does it lessen the
validity of their argument? I, for one, dont think so. An idea is an idea,
good ideas are good, bad ideas are bad. Doesn't seem to me to have
any correlation to good or bad teams, newby or veteran. I dont see it.
> It's funny, I never hear people beotch about garnished boxes at comps
Question: Who is beotching? I haven't seen it yet. Not now, and not
at a comp. So, to whom/when/where are you referring?
Secondly, IF anyone were beotching here (haven't seen it), to what good
would it do at a comp? I happen to think on-sites at MBN are stupid
and unnecessary, but I dont beotch. I enjoy the difference it brings and
go with the flow. Why beotch? Matter of fact, the only ones bringing
in off-topic stuff and questioning anyones abilities are those that have
woefully been attempting to defend it.
BTW: Tradition IS a very good defense. Uniqueness IS a very good
defense. The others, not really. I've seen moot points and questioning
the abilities of those questioning the rule itself....
> I hate to say it folks. If you don't like it, I'd suggest finding a
> new sanctioining body. It's been nice knowing you. Hope to
> see you soon. As long as KCBS is king, expect greens.
First, I haven't seen anyone here say "they don't like it". Did you?
Please, find the reference.
Second, 'round here, KCBS is frankly a wanna be. It may be and IMHO
IS a superior organization, HOWEVER, there's about 1 KCBS cookoff in
this state to every 5 FBA, GBA, MBN cookoffs. King perhaps in your
neck of the woods, but not here, not yet. Strangely, I'm one of the
ones working hard trying to get that changed. Folks in GA have rarely
ever heard of KCBS...
> When you are at the top, folks take shots.
Actually, technically, and PLEASE read above, the ONLY shots taken
in this have been those proclaiming themselves at the top at the others
who've merely stated that they're of the opinion that garnish is
unnecessary and/or takes away from BBQ itself. I dont think any of
"us" questioned your abilities or have, as you just stated, "take shots".
Sorry, haven't seen it.
ique
is One Chatty Farker
I've seen pictures of some FBA boxes posted here without garnish that would be without question solid 8 or 9 in KCBS.
How can that be when Taste and Tenderness are so much more heavily weighted?
