SmokinCW
Knows what a fatty is.
Go for the pellet cooker. The consistent quality of my brisket took a huge jump when I got my Traeger.
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working on DNS.. links may break temporarily.
Briskets: Separating the "good" from the "transcendent"
- Thread starter hominamad
- Start date
Untraceable
Babbling Farker
I took the night train, it tasted like chit. Was that the point of it?
It's basically a controlled experiment to familiarize one with the feel, the tenderness, etc. of a brisket, specifically they flat. The one I did was by no means the greatest thing I ever ate (being addicted to smoked food and all), but it didn't taste like chit.
I think Donnie's point is basically cook it that way, see how it feels, and go for that feeling in the pit. I may not have done it right, because I preferred the texture of the ones I was doing in the smoker - at least the ones I didn't fark up. :redface:
Bludawg
somebody shut me the fark up.
Learning to cook to feel and how time and keeping your pit closed affects the meat. I guess if you want to come down to Tx and you come with a case of Makers Mark and a Box of Cobias I could teach you oh and you buy the meat too. Otherwise this is pointless to continue kicking a dead pony!
Untraceable
Babbling Farker
I know, I know, I understand done on all the other meats, with brisket, whenever I think I figured it out, the next cook is crap
Big Dan
Full Fledged Farker
As a rule of thumb,use a formula of 1.5 hours per pound to put you in the ballpark for a cook. This is not to be followed "in stone" but it will give you an idea of how long to expect your cook to take. For example, an 11 pound brisket, x 1.5= 16.5 hours. BUT, it may finish sooner than that. This was my estimated time for my brisket last Saturday, but it finished in 12.5 hours, so you see how it is not to be followed religiously. The only way you are going to cook good, Knock your socks off, Aaron Franklin, 25 dollars a pound brisket is by cooking a brisket every weekend. The weather changes every day, and so do your variables for smoking a brisket, and the only way you will learn is by doing it. And doing it on a smoker you have gotten very familiar with.You need to know every little nuance of your smoker, inside and out. There is no other way. Practice, practice,practice, there is no "Pill" you can take.
Here in Texas, we only smoke with Wood. Real wood fires give a brisket (and BBQ) the best taste, in my opinion. As far as meat goes, I only smoke Prime briskets from two different butcher shops. Prime is only $3.19 a pound and has nice marbling throughout.
Good luck in your quest. You will get there.
Bludawg
somebody shut me the fark up.
1.5 hrs a lb is a good guesstimate if your cooking between 225-250 I cook at 300 and it drops dramatically to 50 min for unwrapped to 40 min wrapped( Butcher Paper)but in no way is that set in stone. Variance in meat and ambient temp will affect these guesstimate times to a degree.
D
danieldelaney
Guest
Hi All - I was just poking around and saw this thread, and saw my brisket... so I thought I'd chime in. Maybe this will be helpful... maybe not. But here's what we do:
First, there seems to be a lot of talk about the grade of brisket. What I can tell you is that the best quality brisket that I've been able to cook have been choice. Not prime. In my personal experience, prime packs a bit too much fat, and doesn't render as well. The briskets we use are also called 'natural' - which is sort of a strange term, because it means something different to every company that stamps the word on the side of their box. The two words that seem to be universal, however, is 'hormone free' and 'antibiotic free.' The hormone free is probably the most important one for me. It seems less growth hormones mean smaller cows, and smaller briskets, which I prefer. For natural sourcing, I've used beef from Creekstone, Meyer, and Niman. Meyer and Niman only produce 'natural' beef, Creekstone has a natural and a commodity line.
To trim we cut all but about 1/4 an inch of fat off the flat, remove the divot of tough fat near the connection of the flat and the point, on the topside of the brisket. We trim off excess fat at the very tip of the point and running along the side. If any bits of muscle seem grey or dry, cut them off. On the side, you might notice a large channel of fat running between the flat and the point. It's generally pretty tough stuff. I find that it's smaller on the naturals, and can be massive on commodity beef. You can cut some of this out, but understand that if you do, it will increase the surface area of the brisket, could potentially alter the cook time, and might make it ugly, which is the worst. If you're using a small brisket, this channel shouldn't be super large. If it is, you can cut a bit away, but I wouldn't fuss with it too much. It's better to just cut it out during service. On the underside, you might have a giant wedge of nasty connective tissue and fat. Just lob that whole thing out. It's useless. Also, we like briskets under 12lbs, and like to see a nice thick flat, with a good layer of fat. Also, a minimal slope between the flat and point is best. It'll cook more evenly.
For rub, we just use salt and pepper. Specifically we get whole Tellicherry peppercorns and run them through an old BUNN coffee grinder, then pass that through a sieve - the dusty pepper debris is used for other cooking at the restaurant, while the nice large bits go into our rub. We do this daily. We also use Morton's kosher salt. You can use Diamond too, but understand that the salinity is higher, and the crystals are smaller, so you'll have to adjust your rub. I'd suggest starting at 50/50 by weight, and adjust to your taste from there. Also, always do rubs by weight. Volume is worthless if you want to be consistent.
Season the meat as you see fit. For our beef ribs, we use like, a half a teaspoon of rub on a whole rib. Basically nothing. For briskets, we pack it on. Not all places do. Some go sparingly, others dredge. Total preference. Next, we let the brisket sit in the for a day or two (depending on the size), to let some of the salinity penetrate and to form a pellicle. Then it's time to smoke.
I think this is the hardest thing to talk about. Every day at the restaurant folks will ask what temperature we cook at. I have no problem disclosing, but I feel that I'm doing a disservice because our temperatures are what our smoker needs to work well, and one size doesn't fit all. I used to have a small kettle smoker, and and then a mid-sized offset from Home Depot. Both needed an entirely different set of time and temperatures. What I can say is this. The bigger smoker, the easier it will be to net a great product. Smaller smokers tend to have thinner the walls which will lead to tons of fluctuation during the cook. Fluctuation sucks. Your briskets hate it, and so will your guests. So, if you can get an insulated smoker, get one. If not, try putting some bricks on and around your firebox, or wrap the whole thing in metal insulation. You can throw firesafe moving blankets over the cook chamber. The point is, hold the heat in. Get creative. But understand that holding heat isn't the same as cutting off airflow and oxygen. You should allow your fire to get the oxygen it needs or it will start to smolder and produce acrid smoke. Not tasty.
Ok, on to the cook:
We start cooking at a low temperature, which will make your wood smoke more. The pellicle will help trap the smoke. We use wood aged for about one and a half years. We use all white oak, no charcoal or lighter fluid. The wood is pretty dry stuff. It burns really clean. Not much silty smoke. We'll go low for a few hours, maybe 4 depending on the size of the briskets, then we'll crank the heat into the 250 - 260's for another 4, and will finally go up to 310 - 325. We also wrap our briskets with butcher paper when they get a nice color. Wrapping them tightly will hold in more moisture and induce a bit of a braise, wrap them loose and the paper will release more fat. Up to you. That last cycle at the end seems that it would burn the briskets, and maybe if you have a small smoker it will, so be careful, but for us it actually sort of cauterizes the meat. It allows us to sear the outside, which I've found helps retain more moisture on the inside, especially in the flat. When it's done we'll let them breath for a moment on the smoker, then I'll rest them for around 4 hours before we serve them. Save the butcher paper, you can use it to light the fire next time.
It should also be said that I like to serve super tender brisket. Many places prefer much more of a steaky texture. That's totally preference, but it's not mine.
Anyway, I hope this is helpful. My biggest take aways are:
• The quality of the beef has a huge impact on the final product. Call the meat companies, figure out who is the local distributor, and drive there. Coerce them into selling you a nice ass brisket. Ask them to go inside the plant and pick one.
• What we do, or any of the other BBQ guys do, is ALWAYS slave to the smoker. You've got to, got to, got to keep working to understand your cooker. That's the key.
• No dirty fires, no dirty smokers, clean it all, season it. Treat it like precious cast iron cookware.
• Insulation is your friend.
• A good brisket doesn't need much seasoning.
I don't know what else. I hope this is helpful. Feel free to write back if there are any questions.
Dan
--
Delaney Barbecue
BrisketTown / SmokeLine
First, there seems to be a lot of talk about the grade of brisket. What I can tell you is that the best quality brisket that I've been able to cook have been choice. Not prime. In my personal experience, prime packs a bit too much fat, and doesn't render as well. The briskets we use are also called 'natural' - which is sort of a strange term, because it means something different to every company that stamps the word on the side of their box. The two words that seem to be universal, however, is 'hormone free' and 'antibiotic free.' The hormone free is probably the most important one for me. It seems less growth hormones mean smaller cows, and smaller briskets, which I prefer. For natural sourcing, I've used beef from Creekstone, Meyer, and Niman. Meyer and Niman only produce 'natural' beef, Creekstone has a natural and a commodity line.
To trim we cut all but about 1/4 an inch of fat off the flat, remove the divot of tough fat near the connection of the flat and the point, on the topside of the brisket. We trim off excess fat at the very tip of the point and running along the side. If any bits of muscle seem grey or dry, cut them off. On the side, you might notice a large channel of fat running between the flat and the point. It's generally pretty tough stuff. I find that it's smaller on the naturals, and can be massive on commodity beef. You can cut some of this out, but understand that if you do, it will increase the surface area of the brisket, could potentially alter the cook time, and might make it ugly, which is the worst. If you're using a small brisket, this channel shouldn't be super large. If it is, you can cut a bit away, but I wouldn't fuss with it too much. It's better to just cut it out during service. On the underside, you might have a giant wedge of nasty connective tissue and fat. Just lob that whole thing out. It's useless. Also, we like briskets under 12lbs, and like to see a nice thick flat, with a good layer of fat. Also, a minimal slope between the flat and point is best. It'll cook more evenly.
For rub, we just use salt and pepper. Specifically we get whole Tellicherry peppercorns and run them through an old BUNN coffee grinder, then pass that through a sieve - the dusty pepper debris is used for other cooking at the restaurant, while the nice large bits go into our rub. We do this daily. We also use Morton's kosher salt. You can use Diamond too, but understand that the salinity is higher, and the crystals are smaller, so you'll have to adjust your rub. I'd suggest starting at 50/50 by weight, and adjust to your taste from there. Also, always do rubs by weight. Volume is worthless if you want to be consistent.
Season the meat as you see fit. For our beef ribs, we use like, a half a teaspoon of rub on a whole rib. Basically nothing. For briskets, we pack it on. Not all places do. Some go sparingly, others dredge. Total preference. Next, we let the brisket sit in the for a day or two (depending on the size), to let some of the salinity penetrate and to form a pellicle. Then it's time to smoke.
I think this is the hardest thing to talk about. Every day at the restaurant folks will ask what temperature we cook at. I have no problem disclosing, but I feel that I'm doing a disservice because our temperatures are what our smoker needs to work well, and one size doesn't fit all. I used to have a small kettle smoker, and and then a mid-sized offset from Home Depot. Both needed an entirely different set of time and temperatures. What I can say is this. The bigger smoker, the easier it will be to net a great product. Smaller smokers tend to have thinner the walls which will lead to tons of fluctuation during the cook. Fluctuation sucks. Your briskets hate it, and so will your guests. So, if you can get an insulated smoker, get one. If not, try putting some bricks on and around your firebox, or wrap the whole thing in metal insulation. You can throw firesafe moving blankets over the cook chamber. The point is, hold the heat in. Get creative. But understand that holding heat isn't the same as cutting off airflow and oxygen. You should allow your fire to get the oxygen it needs or it will start to smolder and produce acrid smoke. Not tasty.
Ok, on to the cook:
We start cooking at a low temperature, which will make your wood smoke more. The pellicle will help trap the smoke. We use wood aged for about one and a half years. We use all white oak, no charcoal or lighter fluid. The wood is pretty dry stuff. It burns really clean. Not much silty smoke. We'll go low for a few hours, maybe 4 depending on the size of the briskets, then we'll crank the heat into the 250 - 260's for another 4, and will finally go up to 310 - 325. We also wrap our briskets with butcher paper when they get a nice color. Wrapping them tightly will hold in more moisture and induce a bit of a braise, wrap them loose and the paper will release more fat. Up to you. That last cycle at the end seems that it would burn the briskets, and maybe if you have a small smoker it will, so be careful, but for us it actually sort of cauterizes the meat. It allows us to sear the outside, which I've found helps retain more moisture on the inside, especially in the flat. When it's done we'll let them breath for a moment on the smoker, then I'll rest them for around 4 hours before we serve them. Save the butcher paper, you can use it to light the fire next time.
It should also be said that I like to serve super tender brisket. Many places prefer much more of a steaky texture. That's totally preference, but it's not mine.
Anyway, I hope this is helpful. My biggest take aways are:
• The quality of the beef has a huge impact on the final product. Call the meat companies, figure out who is the local distributor, and drive there. Coerce them into selling you a nice ass brisket. Ask them to go inside the plant and pick one.
• What we do, or any of the other BBQ guys do, is ALWAYS slave to the smoker. You've got to, got to, got to keep working to understand your cooker. That's the key.
• No dirty fires, no dirty smokers, clean it all, season it. Treat it like precious cast iron cookware.
• Insulation is your friend.
• A good brisket doesn't need much seasoning.
I don't know what else. I hope this is helpful. Feel free to write back if there are any questions.
Dan
--
Delaney Barbecue
BrisketTown / SmokeLine
MS2SB
is Blowin Smoke!
And there you have it, straight from the horses mouth.
dwfisk
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Listen to this brother-changed the way I cook brisket and I definetely mean for the better!
I like to start with 15# packers; choice has been good enough for me
Trim to 1/4 inch or less & get rid of all the hard yellow fat
Clean smoke; manage your fire; 300*-325* for 4 hours
Wrap in BP for 1-1/2 to 2 hours & probe tender
Let it set for a while (30 minutes) or hold in a cooler/cambro until you are ready to eat
Once you slice it, eat it. If you are going to save/freeze some, hold it in big chucks!
I like to start with 15# packers; choice has been good enough for me
Trim to 1/4 inch or less & get rid of all the hard yellow fat
Clean smoke; manage your fire; 300*-325* for 4 hours
Wrap in BP for 1-1/2 to 2 hours & probe tender
Let it set for a while (30 minutes) or hold in a cooler/cambro until you are ready to eat
Once you slice it, eat it. If you are going to save/freeze some, hold it in big chucks!
landarc
somebody shut me the fark up.
Thanks for posting and being willing to share Dan. I really appreciate when someone with a great track record and a pro is willing to openly share his knowledge with the rest of us.
I like your process, of course, that could be because there are some similarities to what I have learned to do. I should examine my process and see where I can learn some more from you.
I like your process, of course, that could be because there are some similarities to what I have learned to do. I should examine my process and see where I can learn some more from you.
AustinKnight
is Blowin Smoke!
hominamad you should be off to a really good start on perfecting your brisket skills, I don't feel the need to share anything THx to all these chatty farkers, dam tapatalk :tsk: But for every brisket thread that is started I will now post this pic every time so get used to it brethren.:biggrin1:
hominamad
Knows what a fatty is.
Hi Dan - can't thank you enough for replying to my thread. Your brisket is one of the best if not THE best I've had - but bear in mind I am but a city boy.
I still have another 1/2 lb of brisket reserved at your place so you will be seeing me in the restaurant some time in the next few weeks.
I've decided that I'm not going to bother with a gas or pellet smoker. I think I'm going to purchase a WSM or the Napoleon Apollo smoker. I imagine I should be able to produce a decent packer brisket with that? I watched all of Aaron Franklin's videos and he uses an offset smoker - but I've read that those are not so great (at least one in the price range of a WSM).
One final question for you Dan - do you have any recommendations of where to buy a good quality packer retail in the NYC area? Is it overkill to buy this from a place like Lobels?
I will post back here after my next brisket attempt. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed here.
h
I still have another 1/2 lb of brisket reserved at your place so you will be seeing me in the restaurant some time in the next few weeks.
I've decided that I'm not going to bother with a gas or pellet smoker. I think I'm going to purchase a WSM or the Napoleon Apollo smoker. I imagine I should be able to produce a decent packer brisket with that? I watched all of Aaron Franklin's videos and he uses an offset smoker - but I've read that those are not so great (at least one in the price range of a WSM).
One final question for you Dan - do you have any recommendations of where to buy a good quality packer retail in the NYC area? Is it overkill to buy this from a place like Lobels?
I will post back here after my next brisket attempt. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed here.
h
willbird
Full Fledged Farker
Only tried the paper wrap once, but trying to probe with the grain inside the paper was an issue for me.............
The Brisket I most fondly remember was the Harry Soo method, probably overdone by competition standards, but damn was it GOOD
. Second best was one I pulled at "tough and under done" and sliced, then trying to save it laid the slices in a roaster with a good spritz of Maggi then into the oven til it was actually tender.
Bbq Bubba
somebody shut me the fark up.
I cant add much more than already has been said except....
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JS-TX
is One Chatty Farker
What is your reason for trying to probe with the grain?
willbird
Full Fledged Farker
I thought I was supposed to ?? If it does not matter, well that makes it a lot easier
.Bill
Bbq Bubba
somebody shut me the fark up.
I thought I was supposed to ?? If it does not matter, well that makes it a lot easier
Bill
For proper feel you should probe with the grain. Going against will give you a false reading. (feel)
WareZdaBeef
is Blowin Smoke!
Im finding the longer and lower the collagen and connective tissue breakdown temperature the better the brisket. I found a 24-26 hour cook to an internal temp between 145F and 148F produces amazing results. Still some slight pink in the middle, muscle fibers start breaking down and can be pulled apart with ease, yet can still be sliced thin or thick or chopped.
dealm9
is one Smokin' Farker
This thread has a bunch of information from great minds on how to cook a great brisket. However, after reading this entire the thread, I think the most valuable lesson is that no part of bbq is a science. You cannot cook a great brisket simply by reading this thread. It's going to take practice and experience. Franklin or whoever may cook their triple ultra marbled super quality just alive one minute ago brisket at 312.5 degrees and great brisket and joe schmoe may cook his mildew covered piece of meat which looks more like a shoe at 225 and get a great brisket. There is no single temperature, method, or cooker to achieving great brisket. It is not like there is some secret that all the greats are keeping to themselves. Trial and error is the only secret to success. This forum is best served to learn from other people's trial and error so you dont have to come upon error as much but ultimately it is something you will have to go through in order to make good brisket. Therefore, if you are thinking of buying a pellet cooker just to achieve good brisket I highly suggest you do not. It will not change your brisket IMHO. What will is practice and learning from the people here.
