2 Problems for new Yoder Wichita owner

Bryan58 said:

I received my Cheyenne today. When I ordered on 8/30, I was really excited to get this smoker. My excitement turned into regret and fearing what I got myself in to. I'm glad to report that my Cheyenne works as advertised. I followed Chef Tom's fire management video and had no issues with white smoke. While I was seasoning, I got the smoker to 325 on the firebox side and 285 on the stack side, grate level, and was able to set the firebox damper to 1/3 open and the stack to half open and the fire kept rolling and the temps stayed steady with thin blue smoke. The only caveat, like Chef Tom, I was using kiln dried wood. I did have the heat management plate installed.
The damper is lowered, as pictured below. Still the same damper size from what I can tell.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8XniOI1ynU1QUMweW1RUjJmd2s/view?usp=sharing

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I don't have any baseline measurements for the Cheyenne. We'd need to get the diameter for the outer circle and the inner circle shown in the photos in order to calculate the intake area in square inches. It looks to me like the new intake size is about the same as the original, but the new one has rounded corners.

Couple of things.
The patent that was mentioned is for a pellet grill and not wood pit and is a valid patent under the US patent office. I have a couple of patents in on our pellet grills. Not sure how this is relevant to this topic. Had the patent been read,it clearly outlines a pellet grill.

As far as the design of the wood pit we have tested and made the modifications based on user experiences and input to all current production models. We also have a damper that we have sent out to numerous customers. We lowered the damper in new production models and made it slightly larger to allow more air into the pit. We will gladly send the damper or new door configuration to any customer, just email customer service. customerservice@yodersmokers.com

In regards to the current attack that we are under from Slamkeys in every place he can find. We did in fact offered to make this right and build a pit to his specifications. The other side of our business is the custom side where we will produce nearly 200 trailers or custom configurations. We can make a pit cook to a user specifications. I commend him to get the pit to cook exactly the way he wants. The continued public attacks aren't necessary and border line personal. Slamkeys if you aren't happy with your pit sell it or I'm happy to take it on trade for a pit built to your specifications.

The question on wood is simple. Kiln dried wood if available is the most predictable thing you can cook with. That doesn't mean you can't cook with other types of wood. You certainly can because I do routinely. If I can run kiln dried I do because it does run more predictably, but have run my fair share of other woods and have pear tree cut up and curing now.

We have listened and made changes to the products per customer feedback. Our designs have been enjoyed by thousands over the years. We have won on the smallest stages and the largest stages in the world. We continue to develop new products based on customer feedback and will continue to do so. We are glad to produce products and pits that can be enjoyed by our customers worldwide. We want everyone to be happy with the products they buy from us and doing everything we can to make sure this happens.

We will continue to be involved and are committed to listening to our customers to produce the best product we can. Anybody that wants a pit built a certain way just let us know and we are glad to accommodate. Otherwise we feel like we have produced a product that serves the market well and will provide a good experience to the user base.

Slamkeys, what say you Sir? I have been following these Yoder threads across multiple websites for the better portion of the year. I’m just a bbq enthusiast with no ties to either party. I will say that the concerns did in fact lead me away from getting the Loaded Wichita

Food for thought from a mentor of mine: fair conflict resolution has been executed just right when both parties walk away annoyed (but not enraged)

Theres's nothing wrong with the door or the firebox. That exhaust is simly too small, its creating back pressure and it cant breathe.

In fairness, Slamkeys acknowledged the patent was on a pellet cooker in post #178. As far as Joe's offers, I am happy to see them. As a consumer, its imperative that a manufacturer stand behind their products. A problem with a product, whether real or perceived, is a problem for a manufacturer. Issues arise and how a company handles them makes all of the difference. On the surface, it looks like these offers took longer than they should have which may have been why the frustration grew to a fevered pitch but I have no knowledge of when the offers were made. It would be interesting to know if there were any charges for some of the offers as well. I am trying to remain impartial but as I've stated before, Yoder lost my business because of this thread and I know of at least one other person on this forum who didn't purchase a Wichita because of this thread. My buying decision may have been different if satisfactory resolutions had been brought forward several months ago.

We have been working on ways to resolve customer issues that already own a pit and new production models. We have been extremely busy, everything we can build is sold and we wanted to be sure we are making good choices for the consumers. We have been committed to working on these products for months and have been working on them. We need to implement changes that serve current owners and future owners.So I understand this really seems slow, but we have learned over the years to get to the bottom of things before we post anything. We are building hundreds of cookers per week so every decision needs to be carefully measured and implemented so that we aren't mixing and matching. We need to create a clean cut over test in the field and locally with consumers before releasing to the masses. I think we have made some nice progress and made some nice improvements. We will continue to run and test to be sure we do our best at maximizing the designs.

We sold hundreds and hundreds of pit with very minimal complaints over the last 10 years. So when this started popping up months ago, we where really caught off guard. The volume in all products has gone vertical over the last several years. There began to be more complaints (this really has been a very small number) our consumer feedback prompted me to have a look and see what we can improve to make the experience better. The feed back is appreciated and always taken seriously. We never ignore feedback, there have been hundreds of running changes to the Yoder product line in the last decade. We will continue to evolve our products to meet the customer needs and do the very best we can to take care of new and old customers.

We appreciate our customers, obviously we couldn't do this without them.

I don't know how many complaints were made, and to whom, but several years ago I was told by a Yoder DEALER that they didn't recommend purchasing a Wichita because of all the complaints they had received on them. They further stated that as far as they knew, all of the larger Yoder smokers worked well and everyone was quite pleased with them. So, I believe the problems have not been limited to just one dealer's experience along with the friends of mine who purchased this model, only to each sell them later for a similarly sized smoker of another brand which worked very well and with no demanding and finicky adherence to vague "protocols."

As I understand the offer that was originally made to Slamkeys, the invitation to have a smoker built to his specs was to be accompanied by an invoice for same.

And, once again, we are just tickled pink with our YS640! Its getting long in the tooth and has never given any problem of any kind, if you don't count my wife wanting to know why I didn't order the 1500, or even that really big bruiser Yoder now offers, because she enjoys the food from the 640 so much that she wants to overload it beyond it's capacity (which seemed quite huge when we started down this path).

Also, on those occasions when I have had a question pertaining to some aspect of the YS640's operation and use, the Yoder folks have been very helpful and prompt with their responses.

I sincerely hope this situation ends with everyone, both factory and customer, happy and content with any transactions.

YS-Joe said:

Couple of things.
The patent that was mentioned is for a pellet grill and not wood pit and is a valid patent under the US patent office. I have a couple of patents in on our pellet grills. Not sure how this is relevant to this topic. Had the patent been read,it clearly outlines a pellet grill.

As far as the design of the wood pit we have tested and made the modifications based on user experiences and input to all current production models. We also have a damper that we have sent out to numerous customers. We lowered the damper in new production models and made it slightly larger to allow more air into the pit. We will gladly send the damper or new door configuration to any customer, just email customer service. customerservice@yodersmokers.com

In regards to the current attack that we are under from Slamkeys in every place he can find. We did in fact offered to make this right and build a pit to his specifications. The other side of our business is the custom side where we will produce nearly 200 trailers or custom configurations. We can make a pit cook to a user specifications. I commend him to get the pit to cook exactly the way he wants. The continued public attacks aren't necessary and border line personal. Slamkeys if you aren't happy with your pit sell it or I'm happy to take it on trade for a pit built to your specifications.

The question on wood is simple. Kiln dried wood if available is the most predictable thing you can cook with. That doesn't mean you can't cook with other types of wood. You certainly can because I do routinely. If I can run kiln dried I do because it does run more predictably, but have run my fair share of other woods and have pear tree cut up and curing now.

We have listened and made changes to the products per customer feedback. Our designs have been enjoyed by thousands over the years. We have won on the smallest stages and the largest stages in the world. We continue to develop new products based on customer feedback and will continue to do so. We are glad to produce products and pits that can be enjoyed by our customers worldwide. We want everyone to be happy with the products they buy from us and doing everything we can to make sure this happens.

We will continue to be involved and are committed to listening to our customers to produce the best product we can. Anybody that wants a pit built a certain way just let us know and we are glad to accommodate. Otherwise we feel like we have produced a product that serves the market well and will provide a good experience to the user base.

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Since we're "airing it all out here" can you be firm on the cost for getting a replacement door / damper for my Cheyenne? While that smoker is built to amazing standards in terms of welds / quality, it is very difficult to operate because of the drafting issue. Even with the firebox door open I often had issues keeping a fire with shifting winds and had to rotate it constantly to keep the wind going directly into the firebox. For the record I've been cooking on a Johnson Smokers offset smoker for the last 9 months using the same wood and in the same location and I have NEVER had to rotate that smoker.

So what kind of cost is associated with the new door / damper system? Can you give me solid details rather than have me hash it out with your customer service department? If so I'll use your response when I send my email to them so there will be no issues on either end.

Thank you

I have the new door on my Cheyenne and it will not keep you from having to rotate your smoker due to the wind. I smoked some wings yesterday, and the wind kept changing on me, so I ended up moving it so the stack was about a foot away from my fence, the smoker was perpendicular to the fence. That made a HUGE difference! Nice, clean smoke and it chugged along at 275 with no issues. Stack was halfway closed and the damper on the firebox was halfway open. Maybe the issue is more of an exhaust issue.

Overall, I'm happy with my Cheyenne. Now that I have it where my fence blocks the wind, hopefully it will continue to run great. I ran it for a couple of weeks without the heat management plate installed and I put it back in yesterday. It didn't seem to make any difference with airflow to where it affected the fire. It only cooked different, which I prefer it with the plate installed.

Bryan58 said:

I have the new door on my Cheyenne and it will not keep you from having to rotate your smoker due to the wind. I smoked some wings yesterday, and the wind kept changing on me, so I ended up moving it so the stack was about a foot away from my fence, the smoker was perpendicular to the fence. That made a HUGE difference! Nice, clean smoke and it chugged along at 275 with no issues. Stack was halfway closed and the damper on the firebox was halfway open. Maybe the issue is more of an exhaust issue.

Overall, I'm happy with my Cheyenne. Now that I have it where my fence blocks the wind, hopefully it will continue to run great. I ran it for a couple of weeks without the heat management plate installed and I put it back in yesterday. It didn't seem to make any difference with airflow to where it affected the fire. It only cooked different, which I prefer it with the plate installed.

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Are you still running with kiln-dried wood?

SmoothBoarBBQ said:

Are you still running with kiln-dried wood?

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I am. That is all that I currently have access too. I will definitely try to get a hold of a few logs and try them out.

Bryan58 said:

I am. That is all that I currently have access too. I will definitely try to get a hold of a few logs and try them out.

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TONS of oak in your area. Best way to get your hands on wood for your smoker is to use Craigslist and search "firewood." Just need to make sure it's hardwoods and no spruces, firs, or gums.

https://columbia.craigslist.org/grd/d/oak-firewood/6351577634.html

Anyways, it sounds like your Cheyenne is treating you well and that's good. Kind of not a good deal that you have to mash it up against a fence to keep the airflow constant, but I guess it's better than nothing.

SmoothBoarBBQ said:

TONS of oak in your area. Best way to get your hands on wood for your smoker is to use Craigslist and search "firewood." Just need to make sure it's hardwoods and no spruces, firs, or gums.

https://columbia.craigslist.org/grd/d/oak-firewood/6351577634.html

Anyways, it sounds like your Cheyenne is treating you well and that's good. Kind of not a good deal that you have to mash it up against a fence to keep the airflow constant, but I guess it's better than nothing.

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Okay, so maybe not an access issue, but a storage issue. I just have to figure out where to put it and how to get it there. When I had my fence put up I only had a walk-in gate put in. I'll see what I can do in the meantime.

Bryan58 said:

Okay, so maybe not an access issue, but a storage issue. I just have to figure out where to put it and how to get it there. When I had my fence put up I only had a walk-in gate put in. I'll see what I can do in the meantime.

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I hear it man I had a tough time figuring it all out when I first switched over to cooking on an offset from cooking on a kamado. I bought a log rack online which holds a 1/2 cord of wood and it's still holding strong ~2 years later. Last year I bought a full cord of pecan (my absolute favorite wood) and ended up picking up a few pallets from the local landfill. I put them on a few bricks (to keep them off the ground) and have been storing the wood on those... so much cheaper than buying a log rack.

I was also in the same boat with my fence only having a walk-through gate. So I had the wood delivered (in the link I posted earlier delivery was available) and just had the wood dropped in front of the gate. I used an old wheel burrow to take a few splits at a time and within an hour or so it was all done and stacked up nice and neat. I'm kind of a hoarder when it comes to stuff like bbq wood so it was a nice relief to have so much wood on hand and never really worry about running out mid-cook. I forged a relationship with a local farmer and he gives me a very good deal on wood and it's a win/win as he's a nice guy who also loves to cook BBQ. haha

SmoothBoarBBQ said:

I hear it man I had a tough time figuring it all out when I first switched over to cooking on an offset from cooking on a kamado. I bought a log rack online which holds a 1/2 cord of wood and it's still holding strong ~2 years later. Last year I bought a full cord of pecan (my absolute favorite wood) and ended up picking up a few pallets from the local landfill. I put them on a few bricks (to keep them off the ground) and have been storing the wood on those... so much cheaper than buying a log rack.

I was also in the same boat with my fence only having a walk-through gate. So I had the wood delivered (in the link I posted earlier delivery was available) and just had the wood dropped in front of the gate. I used an old wheel burrow to take a few splits at a time and within an hour or so it was all done and stacked up nice and neat. I'm kind of a hoarder when it comes to stuff like bbq wood so it was a nice relief to have so much wood on hand and never really worry about running out mid-cook. I forged a relationship with a local farmer and he gives me a very good deal on wood and it's a win/win as he's a nice guy who also loves to cook BBQ. haha

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Pecan is my favorite too. I'd have to do the same thing with having them drop it off in front of my gate and then I'd have to use the wheelbarrow to go up the hill in my back yard... I have a couple of wooden pallets in my garage that I can use to stack them on. I just need to get off my butt and do it.

Thanks fellas re: Yoder.

In other news, slam keys, I hope things are okay out there. Any updates from your end?

I hope everyone can walk away with a solution that's palatable.

Notorious Q.U.E. said:

Thanks fellas re: Yoder.

In other news, slam keys, I hope things are okay out there. Any updates from your end?

I hope everyone can walk away with a solution that's palatable.

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Here's a solution: delete all of my posts from the forum. Problem solved.


I did challenge Herb to do it last year in response to Joe's charge of personal attacks, but Herb said they don't remove posts unless they violate forum policies. I guess after he reconsidered, he decided my posts did violate forum policies.

At any rate, I have copies of my lengthy posts and I can re-post them somewhere else if anyone still wants to look at them. The door MOD post has the most concise summary of my year-long effort to make the Wichita sing.

This is funny... recently I have been looking at trying to sell my Cheyenne so I cleaned it up and reached out to Yoder about the new door or damper. I told them I was having issues with airflow and they referred me to the video by Chef Tom on how to run a fire. I asked them if they could explain why the Yoder design is so different that not only does it require kiln dried wood, but also require you to preheat that kiln-dried wood INSIDE the firebox. Of course there was no answer but more insistence that this particular method was how the Yoders were designed to work (I'll NEVER believe that).

So I inquired about the new damper / door and there are two fixes. The first is a new damper wheel for the same door which will keep the top vent on the door always covered. So before I bought the damper ($30 shipping charge, but no fee) I decided to try their method out. I did an entire chimney of lump charcoal and put it in the back of the firebox (like in the video) and was pre-heating my wood (not kiln-dried) inside the firebox. I also covered up the top vent in the door with a couple of layers of foil. Truth be told this worked fairly well, and it kept the temp right at 225 for about 2 hours. Problem was that this method just doesn't produce enough coals to keep the fire going so I had to keep on adding a chimney of coals about every 2 hours. That's just insane to go through a 15Lb bag of charcoal every cook, as well as using wood splits.

So I asked about the new door and it's the same scenario with no fee, but a $30 shipping charge (fair enough). According to them the new doors has the vents much lower on the door so it works quite a bit better. Only problem is I would have to take the whole smoker to a metal worker to have the old door cut off and the new door welded on. So the cost to get my smoker to actually work is looking at least another $100 overall. Thanks Yoder!

Has anybody taken up Yoder-JS on his offer and had their Cheyenne or Wichita modified with the new door? I'm skeptical it will work and wouldn't feel right trying to sell the smoker to someone else when I know it doesn't work as it should.

Re-posted articles:

Yoder Wichita Door MOD!
Yoder Log Lighter Update

I recently watched a couple videos by Yoder owners who both had something to say about the flow characteristics of their offset smokers.

Video 1:

This gentleman already had a Yoder YS640, and then bought a Kingman with a square firebox and a competition cart, and after many cooks and "learning his cooker" he has decided he needs to use a house fan to keep the Kingman flowing when there is no wind outside. With the comp cart he is able to move the unit around easily to take advantage of the prevailing winds, but on still days he needs a fan to stoke the fire and keep things moving.

Anybody else using a fan to keep their cookers flowing? He calls this a “pro tip,” but it seems more like a crutch to compensate for poor flow. Hopefully it never rains when he's using his electric fan.



The fan appears at about 7 minutes in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWRL0xTbrBE

When he opens the firebox it looks like there's a good amount of back pressure because smoke comes pouring out of it. I also noticed when he opens the cooker there is a surprising lack of smoke inside it. That square firebox might not flow as good as the round one, or it might be mounted higher than usual.

I’ve seen his earlier videos from when he first got the Kingman, and he was working that smoker for the entire brisket cook, but now he transfers the meat to his YS640 to finish it off, which is surely much easier than fiddling with fans and moving the cooker around to catch some wind.

Video 2:

This owner has invested some serious money on his smokers, and provides an interesting commentary because he has had the privilege of cooking on 4 separate pro-grade smokers. The video focuses on his 30” Horizon Marshal smoker, but he also has a 24” Yoder Durango, a Yoder Frontiersman, and an LSG vertical offset. That’s a lot of steel.

In comparing his 4 smokers he contrasts how the Yoders and the LSG have “extraordinary” build quality, but then admits the Horizon is “one of my favorite smokers,” and “it seems to draw pretty well.” On the contrary, he says the Yoders have their fireboxes mounted higher up, and they have awful backdrafting issues, which result in a face full of smoke when you open the door.

Commentary starts around 5:30:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlhAozEREVA

In the video, he says the following:

This is one of 4 smokers that I have. This is a Horizon (30").

I've got a Durango 24" underneath that tarp over there. It's a Yoder Durango 24". I have a Yoder Frontiersman as well, and a Lone Star Grillz vertical offset. And this is, as far as construction is concerned, the most crude of the smokers. The welds on the Yoders and Lone Star Grillz are extraordinary. Not that this is bad, but it's just not quite as refined. These guys are a little slap shot dealing with and everything. It took quite a bit longer to get the cooker than promised. It was poorly packaged for shipping when they sent it freight. It arrived badly damaged so it had to go back to the manufacturer for a lot of repairs. When it showed up again it was in great shape.

But, all that aside, this is probably the best cooking smoker I have. The firebox is set a little bit lower on this than on the Yoders. The Yoders backdraft awfully, and whenever you open the door you just get a face full of smoke. And they cook well, but this one's just a lot nicer to use.

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There have been assumptions made regarding flow issues only affecting Yoder's "smaller offsets," mainly because a lot of us first-time buyers are getting the smaller units, but here's a guy who only uses the larger Yoder offsets and he points out the same flow issues with his after using other smokers that actually flow well.

Horizon 30" Marshal: