Judging (moved from KCBS NAshville thread)

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SaucyWench

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Curious, do any of you cookers plan on going to the CBJ/Cooks Roundtable on Friday? And would you really want to hear judges' opinions?

If any of yall would like to know the judge's side, we would go, but if it's just a cook vs judge "what do you know cause you don't cook competitively" free-for-all, we'll stay home.
 
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SaucyWench said:
Curious, do any of you cookers plan on going to the CBJ/Cooks Roundtable on Friday? And would you really want to hear judges' opinions?

If any of yall would like to know the judge's side, we would go, but if it's just a cook vs judge "what do you know cause you don't cook competitively" free-for-all, we'll stay home.
Click to expand...

That's a great attitude. I'm sure the cooks will be very receptive. This should be a good one. WTF will moderate this!

I think I'll attend as a judge.

Master Judge #738
 
SaucyWench said:
Curious, do any of you cookers plan on going to the CBJ/Cooks Roundtable on Friday? And would you really want to hear judges' opinions?

If any of yall would like to know the judge's side, we would go, but if it's just a cook vs judge "what do you know cause you don't cook competitively" free-for-all, we'll stay home.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with Ray regarding the attitude. I for one would welcome hearing the judges opinions and I don't think I've ever been guilty of having a "what do you know cause you don't cook competitively" attitude either.

I think a good topic for discussion would be what ideas the judges have to make scoring more consistant.
 
drbbq said:
That's a great attitude. I'm sure the cooks will be very receptive. This should be a good one. WTF will moderate this!

I think I'll attend as a judge.

Master Judge #738
Click to expand...

I might have to attend......if you moderate that discussion:eek::mrgreen:

Ray for President!
 
Oh man, all of the sudden it's looking more interesting. But I'm not going to play in Troy Black's backyard party.
 
Jeff_in_KC said:
Oh man, all of the sudden it's looking more interesting. But I'm not going to play in Troy Black's backyard party.
Click to expand...

That'll show him! :roll:

Strangely, I think Audrey wants to go. She keeps bringing it up.
 
drbbq said:
That's a great attitude. I'm sure the cooks will be very receptive. This should be a good one. WTF will moderate this!

I think I'll attend as a judge.

Master Judge #738
Click to expand...


I don't mean to have a bad attitude, but there have been times when we've been asked for advice on what judges look for, told what we've learned over the years, and then basically been told that the judges must be the problem, not their methods, recipes, whatever.

Most cooks are very receptive, but, sadly, some definitely see us as adversaries, or think we're only there for free food. When you are serious about your judging, it's discouraging to hear things like that. Just makes me a little leery. Sorry if I've offended anyone.

Looks like we wouldn't be able to go anyway, work deadlines interfere.
 
SaucyWench said:
I don't mean to have a bad attitude, but there have been times when we've been asked for advice on what judges look for, told what we've learned over the years, and then basically been told that the judges must be the problem, not their methods, recipes, whatever.

Most cooks are very receptive, but, sadly, some definitely see us as adversaries, or think we're only there for free food. When you are serious about your judging, it's discouraging to hear things like that. Just makes me a little leery. Sorry if I've offended anyone.

Looks like we wouldn't be able to go anyway, work deadlines interfere.
Click to expand...

I for one, value judges' opinions, but I don't get to get them. I can understand the opinions by assumptions of mine, of the 5 judges that give me, 7's, 8's and 9's, but I'd really like to know the opinion of the 1 judge that'd give me 4's and 5's at the same table. That is the judge we all have problems with !!!!
 
Podge said:
I for one, value judges' opinions, but I don't get to get them. I can understand the opinions by assumptions of mine, of the 5 judges that give me, 7's, 8's and 9's, but I'd really like to know the opinion of the 1 judge that'd give me 4's and 5's at the same table. That is the judge we all have problems with !!!!
Click to expand...

Great observations. There are two issues:
1st is feedback. I worked hard to bring about the comment card program. Unfortunately it was ended. I do not believe those who were against it, truly understood the value of the project. I would love to bring it back.

And yes sometime there were comments which made little sense. And yes sometimes the comments were off base. But the majority helped with useful information.

2nd. There judge who is inconsistent is to be talked to by the Contest Rep. He/she should be questioned if they understand the scoring system. The should be shown the cards on the table to show how they are outside of the table. If this does not work, the Rep does have the authority to remove the judge. (This is not going to happen often) But should be writing a letter the the CBJ chairman (currently Ed Roith) and make a report.

We must begin a program for continuing cbj education. The rules change, and cooking changes and we owe it to the judges and the cooks to provide on going education.

Just a few thoughts.
Yours in Que
Merl Whitebook
 
Merl said:
Great observations. There are two issues:
1st is feedback. I worked hard to bring about the comment card program. Unfortunately it was ended. I do not believe those who were against it, truly understood the value of the project. I would love to bring it back.

And yes sometime there were comments which made little sense. And yes sometimes the comments were off base. But the majority helped with useful information.

2nd. There judge who is inconsistent is to be talked to by the Contest Rep. He/she should be questioned if they understand the scoring system. The should be shown the cards on the table to show how they are outside of the table. If this does not work, the Rep does have the authority to remove the judge. (This is not going to happen often) But should be writing a letter the the CBJ chairman (currently Ed Roith) and make a report.

We must begin a program for continuing cbj education. The rules change, and cooking changes and we owe it to the judges and the cooks to provide on going education.

Just a few thoughts.
Yours in Que
Merl Whitebook
Click to expand...

I'd like to see judges be able to talk to each other while they're judging. Someone's entry will win the table anyway, might as well talk about it. That way, when judges are in line, and the one judge that isn't can be convinced otherwise, or he/she can at least give their opinion to the other judges why they think what they think. I really don't think it's a bad thing for judges to talk to each other.
 
Podge, are you suggesting they talk about it while they are judging (as in between viewing/tasting) or after each catagory? I know the handful of times I've judged the majority of the judges at each table seem to compare thoughts on the entries - what they liked and/or disliked about each (or favorite and least favorite). I enjoy sharing feedback after each catagory is judged and cards are handed in.
 
KC_Bobby said:
Podge, are you suggesting they talk about it while they are judging (as in between viewing/tasting) or after each catagory? I know the handful of times I've judged the majority of the judges at each table seem to compare thoughts on the entries - what they liked and/or disliked about each (or favorite and least favorite). I enjoy sharing feedback after each catagory is judged and cards are handed in.
Click to expand...

yes, that's what I'm getting at.. talk about it right then before scores get turned in. I bet scores would be a bit more consistent then, or judges will start arguing, or....who knows... but it'd be interesting to say the least !!!.. I'd go to a contest that'd try that ou !
 
Oh, it would be interesting, all right!

How long are you willing to wait for the awards?
 
If waiting a little while longer would produce more consistant scores, I would gladly wait.
 
SaucyWench said:
Oh, it would be interesting, all right!

How long are you willing to wait for the awards?
Click to expand...

i would hope that within that 30 minutes between catagories that those 6 judges could have discussed and scored 6 entries in that time. But, since i haven't judged, it's easy for me to make that assumption.

If it did take more time to compile, but if it meant more consistent judging, i'll sit with Rolling Smoke for a couple more hours, or how long it takes and drink more beer before awards.
 
I'm trying to figure out how this could work. Would we sample #1, talk about it, come to a consensus, then go to #2 and so on? Would we have a time limit per sample to come to an agreement? I'd think at the very least, there would need to be longer times between turn-ins. Since after turn-in, the reps must change the numbers, then they have to try to make sure no table is judging all of the same team's entries, the last table may not get their boxes until 5 or more minutes after the turn-in deadline.

How do you convince the one who thinks #5 is too spicy, salty, peppery, whatever, that their palate is wrong? What if the "holdout" won't change their mind? (I see the noise level in the judging area becoming deafening, especially at larger contests.)

Since KCBS rules call for discarding the lowest score, would this really be worth it?

Podge, you and all cooks really should take the judging class & judge a few contests, some cooks we've talked to who have, get a totally new perspective.
 
SaucyWench said:
Podge, you and all cooks really should take the judging class & judge a few contests, some cooks we've talked to who have, get a totally new perspective.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. I'm sure if I'd take the class and judge about 10 or so contests, I would definitely have a new perspective. But right now, all I'm interested is competing. If i were to start judging in the middle of still competing, I really don't want that kind of new influcences and perspective on me yet. I'm afraid that it could potentially negatively (but think it's a positive at the time) affect how I tackle flavor profiles, tenderness, and presentation. I think what I have now is good stuff, and just want to evolve what I have now to become better and better. One day when I do quit competing, I think I'll start judging. Then, when I do start judging, I'll probably wished I did it earlier. :icon_smil

In hindsight, if i was smart when i very first started BBQ competitions, I would've taken a judging class, and judged a few to at least get a better clue on what I was doing. Actually, That is not a bad idea for a team who's only cooked one or so contests.
 
SaucyWench said:
Since KCBS rules call for discarding the lowest score, would this really be worth it?
Click to expand...

That comment when coming from a rep is one of the biggest insults to a cook when they are questioning a broad deviation of scores.

SaucyWench said:
Podge, you and all cooks really should take the judging class & judge a few contests, some cooks we've talked to who have, get a totally new perspective.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but that almost sounds like a "what do you know cause you don't judge competitions" attitude. Not trying to start a fight here but when I read your first post regarding the attitudes that a lot of cooks have against judges, I gave you credit for it even though I did not consider myself as part of the percentage that didn't want to hear feedback. Now, I'm starting to wonder whether it's the cooks or the judges that really have the attitudes. Speaking for myself, I have been a CBJ since 2003 and have also judged. Just guessing here but I'd say there are a lot more cooks that are CBJ's than there are CBJ's who compete. Having been at the tables before, I think Podge's idea has some merit. Dropping the lowest score is not the answer.
 
When I started judging I definitely got a new perspective.
 
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