Judges Need To Know...

I filled your food full of Phosphates, over salted it, and added layers of MSG on the surface. They should know that too.

I disagree with most of this. I'm sorry, but judges don't need to know how much you spent. If that was the case, we could just compare receipts and go home. Every hobby people have takes up all of their time, and their money if they are doing it all in. I also don't think that whether you did it as a one man team, or a 46 man team really matters. The product is all that matters. The product is what does, and should, be what is judged. Not distance traveled. Not time spent not sleeping. The food.

I do ask for fair, unbiased, and honest judging. If you can do that, we're good.

Pappy Q said:

A recent post in another thread ...

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My thread, trying to learn. Thanks for starting this one. I'm looking forward to reading. Thoughts:

It is worthwhile for judges to appreciate the effort and money that goes into those turn-in boxes. It means we better take our job as seriously as you took the effort. I'm a little ahead of the herd here because I spent 15 years racing sports cars, doing all that weekend stuff, spending significantly more money, towing a 12,000# rig, etc. I know how hard it is.

I am a little fuzzy when I see words like: "fair, unbiased, and honest judging" from @midwest_kc and others. Fair and honest I get, but I'm not sure how a judge would not be fair and honest unless he/she were actually engaged in some kind of cheating scheme. I'm sure the KCBS systems can be subverted since anything is possible but they seem to be reasonably bullet-proof to this newbie.

"Unbiased" is the one that is a bit of a puzzle to me. In the end, the judging is inevitably subjective. Converting subjective ratings to numbers with lots of decimal points doesn't change the fact that they are subjective. So, bias??? I guess I am biased towards what I like, so am I not "unbiased?"

Some scoring is less subjective, like bite tests on ribs, bend/pull tests on brisket, etc. Maybe even "mushy" is somewhat objective. But taste? Appearance?

In the end all I can do is to apply my biases consistently to all competitors and, as a newbie especially, review my scores against the table averages to make sure I am not out in left field somehow. Right? Is there something else?

That's one of the reasons that KCBS requires CBJs cook with a team prior to becoming a Master. No better way of learning what it's like as a team than to go cook with one.

As far as fair, honest and unbiased, I got that from the OP. That was the part I agreed with.

To me, the unbiased part comes in when, to take an example from the other thread, you don't like ribs with sauce on the sides, so it gets marked down for that reason. Now, the subjective side does come in and if the specific turn in looks unappealing, etc, then of course they should be scored accordingly. But, to say that they get marked down solely because there is sauce on the sides, that's the bias, and bringing preconceived opinions that I'm talking about.

Why the hate for bringing a cooler?

Would you rather the food go to waste?

Cook MBN you’ll enjoy it a lot more.

smoke ninja said:

Why the hate for bringing a cooler?

Would you rather the food go to waste?

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I think some cooks feel like a judge isnt taking enough of a sample bite if they are filling their coolers. It does not really bother me. I consider it a compliment. That being said I can understand that concern. You definitly want a judge to take a large enough bite to have a good sample size. I don't think most judges aren't taking a good enough bite to fill their coolers.

I personally would like to see organizers take my leftovers that I didn’t turn in to distribute to the judges after the contest and have the samples I turn in be for judging purposes only.

I’d be more than happy to load judges up for their time and effort.

Good thread IMHO.

I will echo the sentiment that the effort going into these things should be considered at all times. IE: the judges should have an understanding of the amount of work put into producing that product they are about to sample and that should simply reinforce the awesome level of responsibility to do his or her best in scoring the turn-ins.

gettinbasted said:

I personally would like to see organizers take my leftovers that I didn’t turn in to distribute to the judges after the contest and have the samples I turn in be for judging purposes only.

I’d be more than happy to load judges up for their time and effort.

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We have a Master CBJ here in Ohio that trades bourbon (quality stuff too!) for BBQ teams' leftovers. We've traded with him several times.

Basically at every comp he's judging he picks 1-2 teams, messages them ahead of time, "You in for the trade?" "Yep!" "Cool!"

You want to see a judge who has a great relationship with cook teams...because that's one!

Rusty Kettle said:

I think some cooks feel like a judge isnt taking enough of a sample bite if they are filling their coolers. ...

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For this newbie judge with cooler, the issue is not the cooler it is internal capacity. If I eat an ounce from each sample, I will have eaten 1 1/2# by the end of the judging. For me that makes for a very uncomfortable ride home!

airedale said:

For this newbie judge with cooler, the issue is not the cooler it is internal capacity. If I eat an ounce from each sample, I will have eaten 1 1/2# by the end of the judging. For me that makes for a very uncomfortable ride home!

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There is no whining allowed in BBQ. Sounds like judging is a LOT harder than cooking?:razz:

Rusty Kettle said:

I think some cooks feel like a judge isnt taking enough of a sample bite if they are filling their coolers. It does not really bother me. I consider it a compliment. That being said I can understand that concern. You definitly want a judge to take a large enough bite to have a good sample size. I don't think most judges aren't taking a good enough bite to fill their coolers.

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I think there is a small minority of judges that take smaller bites to the purpose of filling their coolers...but it has happened. Despite the small risk associated with this, many cooks agree that it takes away from the “fair” part of what we’re asking judges to do. We ask them to give every sample a fair opportunity to impress them. Micro-bites do not allow for that. In a game where now the 5th score is often the determining factor, there’s no room for this.

airedale said:

For this newbie judge with cooler, the issue is not the cooler it is internal capacity. If I eat an ounce from each sample, I will have eaten 1 1/2# by the end of the judging. For me that makes for a very uncomfortable ride home!

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But that is what you signed up for as a judge. I took the same class as you. They are very clear about what you should expect. To not take a full bite of every sample because you get too full is a disservice to the cooks. But I also don’t believe that every bite is a full 1 oz.

A 1 oz bite is a really big bite. Consider most thighs are 5-6oz raw, with a bone, after cooked theres probably only 3-4oz of meat left. You aren't finishing a thigh in 4 bites, unless it's a big bite. Nobody is asking you to stuff your mouth to capacity. On a rib you should bite from the side to the bone, that is not 1 oz of meat unless people are doing Cadillac cuts which I dont know anyone that does.
Most restaurants serve up 8-10oz protein, 6oz starch and 4oz veg, 18-20oz of food. side salad, cup of soup, dessert, and now you're at 24oz of food easily. But I am pretty confident you've taken way more than 24 bites of food asked of you during judging.

As a non-competitor...I would say that the judges only need to know what's sitting on the table in front of them. They don't need to know anything else...other than the rules & criteria for judging of course.

airedale said:

For this newbie judge with cooler, the issue is not the cooler it is internal capacity. If I eat an ounce from each sample, I will have eaten 1 1/2# by the end of the judging. For me that makes for a very uncomfortable ride home!

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No one requires you to make a happy plate.

Do you take home the samples you score a 7 or below and mix it with the samples you scored 8 & 9 with? How can that poorly scored food be any enjoyment for later consumption?

Do you cut away the area you spread your bacteria on to at least try to keep the sample sanitary?

If Not, Do you share this bounty from judging with others?

Its bad enough that the meat has gone from the smoker to a half dozen questionable unsanitary contact surfaces before it was picked out of a box on chemical laden produce then placed on a printed cardboard paper with no foodsafe certifications and who knows what type of ink it was printed and whose ball scratchers handled that "Judging Plate" at the many points from printer to judging table.

Go ahead and bag it up and let it incubate at 41+ degrees. I don't care if you have a baggie of ice. The bacteria has already bloomed right after you sampled it.

Honestly you are there to judge and not forage.

Even we as cooks throw away the remaining piece after we've sampled our own food in preparation to send you our best. We don't pile in in with the rest of the product and we have a better custody of the safety chain that you could ever have from contest food.

Jeez................

djqualls said:

Even we as cooks throw away the remaining piece after we've sampled our own food in preparation to send you our best. We don't pile in in with the rest of the product and we have a better custody of the safety chain that you could ever have from contest food.

Jeez................

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Wait a minute...I am not supposed to put the piece I took a bite out of in the box? Opps

djqualls said:

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Quite a silly rant, actually.

Too bad. I had some hope that I'd learn some things from this thread. But if the "Thanks" button love consensus is for silly rants, then I guess I'll just move along.