KCBS Pork Rule

But by not wordsmithing you will get what we had. Folks interpreting it And thinking they can put their pulled, sliced or chunked was not considered parting. Look, the only way this rule will ever be good is to get the BOD to have reps enforce it. The BOD is controlled by reps. Why does anyone think that reps would support this extra work and step? They obviously would rather have teams bending and breaking the rules is what it tells me. Does more cooks on the BOD work? I'm not really sure how this rule clears any confusion, other than people that can't cook can reheat their product after they pull it. This whole crap about serving warm food? BS. I have to wear special gloves to handle my pork and I guess I am in a small percentage of cooks that is good enough to get both pulled and sliced from the same butt. Oh some BOD member will come along and compare what my scores have done recently and maybe I don't really know how to cook pork. Not sure how that adds to any of this mass chaos that has been created and not clearly defined though.....
 
Scottie, some people are always going to try and bend the rule to suit them. Just look at the discussion here. The intent of the rule is crystal clear, but some people are going to try and twist it anyway. Short of having a two page rule, I think that's always going to be the case. I'm OK with the new rule, but the old one was fine too. I doubt I'm changing the way I cook pork.
 
So whatever the Pork rule is in place in 2014, is it up to the table CBJ's
to look for, or does that happen before?
Thank You!
 
Scottie, some people are always going to try and bend the rule to suit them. Just look at the discussion here. The intent of the rule is crystal clear, but some people are going to try and twist it anyway. Short of having a two page rule, I think that's always going to be the case. I'm OK with the new rule, but the old one was fine too. I doubt I'm changing the way I cook pork.

Crystal clear for whom? Reading the thread indicates that there may be confusion over the 4 lbs, before it is inspected or 4 lbs when it hits the cooker or both? What constitutes trimming? Trimming for some may be parting for others. But parting implies that all will be cooked while trimming implies that some will not be used or cooked. Need a few additional words to actually convey the intent of the rule.

I currently cook 2 8-10 pounds butts and get what I need from them once cooked. Others don't. When I am preparing my turn-in tray, I wear heat gloves so I can pull and slice and chunk. At this stage it is going in the box because turn-in time is less than 5 minutes away. Why do I need to put it back on the smoker? Set the sauce?

I pulled the pork at some temp and placed in a cambro prior to the box stage. Most of the time I have already started the cooling cycle for my cookers and starting the packing process.

I question the need for the rule except for clarification of the old rule unless it is for those who can't cook pork. Just being a devils advocate
smileyvault-stirthepot.gif
 
Wow, I never realized the way to see if someone is a great pork cook is to see how hot their pork is while being prepped for the box. Instead of having reps do spot inspections of pork, maybe they should just stick Thermopens into everyone's pork at 12:45 and see whose pork is hottest? Might improve my pork results.

I'm not sure why so much focus is on how a pork butt is cooked, while the other categories have turned into phosphate-laden, butter-braised hunks of meat that bear a passing resemblance to BBQ. Want to accentuate skill in BBQ competitions? Ban the use of phosphates (the only purpose of which is to allow meat to retain moisture if overcooked) and braising in butter (which is not, as far as I understand it, a traditional BBQ cooking method). No, I am not advocating either, but I don't see how we can say a deboned chicken thigh ball injected with phosphates and cooked in a vat of melted Parkay is still a measure of someone's BBQ skill, but allowing someone to reheat their pulled pork is dumbing things down.

Oh, and before anyone asks -- I need to wear thick cotton gloves underneath nitrile gloves when I pull pork. :)
 
Scottie, some people are always going to try and bend the rule to suit them. Just look at the discussion here. The intent of the rule is crystal clear, but some people are going to try and twist it anyway. Short of having a two page rule, I think that's always going to be the case. I'm OK with the new rule, but the old one was fine too.
Exactly. The intent of the OLD rule was crystal clear, and yet we ended up with the Pork Collar Advisory being read at every cooks' meeting so that we all could recite it verbatim by the end of the season, and people posting on this very forum that they were damn well going to reheat (or "set sauce" :roll:) whatever they wanted because nobody was going to catch them.

The big push to change the rule to allow returning parted pork to the cooker is just to legalize what was already going on.
 
Scottie, some people are always going to try and bend the rule to suit them. Just look at the discussion here. The intent of the rule is crystal clear, but some people are going to try and twist it anyway. Short of having a two page rule, I think that's always going to be the case. I'm OK with the new rule, but the old one was fine too. I doubt I'm changing the way I cook pork.

I completely agree, the rule is what it is and I will not change the way I cook pork as I was within the rules last year. I think it is a simple rule as well as it should be. Those who read the rule with no agenda will interpret it as the BOD intended, to challenge the teams to cook a large piece of meat and make it great, without having to separate it into smaller parts precook.
 
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Another idea for the rule would be as follows:

Current

PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Boston Roast, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of four (4) pounds at time of inspection. After trimming, pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out), however, once cooked, it may be separated and returned to the cooker at the cook's discretion. It may be turned in chopped, pulled, chunked, sliced or a combination of any of those.

Suggested
PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Boston Roast, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of four (4) pounds at time of inspection. After minimal trimming with all muscle groups left intact with no separation, pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out), however, once cooked, it may be separated and returned to the cooker at the cook's discretion. It may be turned in chopped, pulled, chunked, sliced or a combination of any of those.

Great suggestion but "Cooked" needs to be defined as "Above 160 degrees" ?? otherwise rule benders will throw it on the smoker 5 minutes, then part it and throw it on the grill...
 
Crystal clear for whom? Reading the thread indicates that there may be confusion over the 4 lbs, before it is inspected or 4 lbs when it hits the cooker or both?

It's right there in the rule, at the time of inspection.

What constitutes trimming? Trimming for some may be parting for others. But parting implies that all will be cooked while trimming implies that some will not be used or cooked.

Trimming is removing some of the fat and shaping the meat. Cutting off the money muscle and throwing the rest of the butt out is not trimming. How do we know this? If this was not the intent of the rule, there would be no need to refer to cooking the butt whole. The wording of the rule makes the intent clear. Cook it to 145 degrees and then do what you want with it.

You are correct that trimming implies the trimmed material is waste and not cooked. It's no longer part of the "whole" butt.

I currently cook 2 8-10 pounds butts and get what I need from them once cooked. Others don't. When I am preparing my turn-in tray, I wear heat gloves so I can pull and slice and chunk. At this stage it is going in the box because turn-in time is less than 5 minutes away. Why do I need to put it back on the smoker? Set the sauce?

You don't have to return pork to the smoker, but you could if you wanted to under this rule. I cook my pork whole, and pull just before it's boxed - and this rule change won't alter my process. I could see that at some contests (like the freezing weather at The Jack this year) pulling everything earlier and putting the turn in items back on the heat for a short time before boxing might be a benefit.
 
To all the people who say that the rule was "crystal clear," and only cheaters try to bend it, was the old rule designed to allow people to clean out the connective tissue in a butt, isolating 3-4 distinct muscles, and cook it like a bloomin onion for later cutting? Was the rule intended to allow a person to isolate the money musle, leaving it attached by a 2 mm piece of connective tissue so that it can be sliced later on?

That's what people were doing with the old rule, and it doesn't sound much like real BBQ to me. I'm sure some people will continue to do all that with the new rule. For some reason, every time I ask this, no one defends the practice, even though every one knows it happens. Why don't people talk about that more? Oh yeah, now I remember....

dmp
 
Don't forget that "Pork" after trimming has to still meet what the BOD defined as "Pork" in the first line. So trimming off the MM and cooking just it is not legal.
 
To all the people who say that the rule was "crystal clear," and only cheaters try to bend it, was the old rule designed to allow people to clean out the connective tissue in a butt, isolating 3-4 distinct muscles, and cook it like a bloomin onion for later cutting? Was the rule intended to allow a person to isolate the money musle, leaving it attached by a 2 mm piece of connective tissue so that it can be sliced later on?

That's what people were doing with the old rule, and it doesn't sound much like real BBQ to me. I'm sure some people will continue to do all that with the new rule. For some reason, every time I ask this, no one defends the practice, even though every one knows it happens. Why don't people talk about that more? Oh yeah, now I remember....

dmp

I don't see where the new rule prohibits that practice as long as the muscles in the butts are attached to each other during the initial cooking process. The words "cooked whole" is not violated. However, if the intent of the BOD was for this practice to be banned, they did not do a good job of defining what "cooked whole" means.
 
The words "cooked whole" is not violated.

I agree that it's not cheating, and have never meant to imply that it was. Still, isn't the rule crystal clear? Aren't you supposed to buy a butt, perform minimal trimming, and cook it whole? Aren't muscles attached with token strings bent rules?

dmp
 
I agree that it's not cheating, and have never meant to imply that it was. Still, isn't the rule crystal clear? Aren't you supposed to buy a butt, perform minimal trimming, and cook it whole? Aren't muscles attached with token strings bent rules?

dmp

Bent maybe...but not broken.
 
I agree that it's not cheating, and have never meant to imply that it was. Still, isn't the rule crystal clear? Aren't you supposed to buy a butt, perform minimal trimming, and cook it whole? Aren't muscles attached with token strings bent rules?

dmp

You are right, it's not cheating, but maybe against the intent of the rule. The old rule didn't prevent it, and neither does this one. I'm not sure how you would write a clear, concise rule that prevented it.

I would love a Brethen poll on this - how many people really do it? The teams I know don't cook that way. You can cook a hot 'n fast whole butt in under 5 hours - what's the advantage to hanging a MM on a string?
 
You are right, it's not cheating, but maybe against the intent of the rule. The old rule didn't prevent it, and neither does this one. I'm not sure how you would write a clear, concise rule that prevented it.

I would love a Brethen poll on this - how many people really do it? The teams I know don't cook that way. You can cook a hot 'n fast whole butt in under 5 hours - what's the advantage to hanging a MM on a string?

Why not just say that only surface trimming is allowed, and that isolation of muscles or muscle groups is prohibited.

Or allow the crazy trimming, but require the butt to be tied into a solid mass with butcher string after trimming.
 
Well written explanation...

:clap2:
The new pork rule: What does it really mean?

PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Boston Roast, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of four (4) pounds at time of inspection. After trimming, pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out), however, once cooked, it may be separated and returned to the cooker at the cook's discretion. It may be turned in chopped, pulled, chunked, sliced or a combination of any of those.

The final pork rule (2014) above may not mean what the BOD intended. We can argue our personal interpretation of the meaning of the words in the pork rule or use a crystal ball to interpret the BOD line of thinking, or can we.

To definitively decipher the rule, we must understand about creating rules and regulation specifically what do words mean. Simply, if a word is to be limited or defined in a manner different than found in commonly available dictionaries then the definition must be provided.

The words with the most discussion or “gray area” in their meanings are “trim” , “whole”, and “cooked”; none of which are defined in the rule(s). Therefore, a dictionary must be consulted.

From Merriam Webster:

Trim
verb

1) to cut (something) off something else
2) to remove (something) by cutting
3) to make (something) neat by cutting it
4) to make the size, amount, or extent of (something) smaller


Now we apply the four (4) definitions to the rule by substituting the meanings for the word “trimming”.

The rule: “After trimming, pork shall be cooked whole….”

“After cutting, pork shall be cooked whole….”
“After removing (something) by cutting, pork shall be cooked whole….”
“After making it neat by cutting, pork shall be cooked whole….”
“After making the size, amount, or extent smaller, pork shall be cooked whole….”


Whole
adjective

1) complete or full

2) not lacking or leaving out any part
2) having all the parts
3) not divided or cut into parts or pieces
4) great or large in size, extent, etc.

Referring to the sentence in the rule, “After trimming, pork shall be cooked whole”…... “Whole” is an adjective which qualifies a noun or pronoun in the same sentence. Therefore, we can conclude “whole” is referring to “pork” after the act of trimming.


cook
verb

1) to prepare for eating by a heating process
2) to go through the process of being cooked


The new pork rule when applying common meanings reads like this.

PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Boston Roast, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of four (4) pounds at time of inspection. After trimming (cutting, removing pieces by cutting, making neat by cutting, or making the size, amount, or extent smaller), pork shall be cooked (prepared for eating by heating above *145°) whole (trimmed pork) (bone in or bone out), however, once cooked (prepared for eating by heating above 145°)*, it may be separated and returned to the cooker at the cook's discretion. It may be turned in chopped, pulled, chunked, sliced or a combination of any of those."


*145° was added to further define “cooked” because 145° is the lowest temperature pork is considered safe to eat.

Much clearer now isn't it. Maybe not?


Is a pork collar legal?

No. Because pork collars are not defined as "Pork" in the rule even if they come from one of the parts of the shoulder. Refering to the
definition from the Pork Council, all parts contain a bone. Pork collars do not contain bones.

The rule.
"Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Boston Roast, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder weighing a minimum of four (4) pounds at time of inspection"


The Pork Council defines Pork shoulder as the top portion of the front leg of the hog. The terminology for pork shoulder can vary widely depending on the region. However, the lower ‘arm’ portion of the shoulder is most commonly called the arm Picnic. The upper part of the shoulder, often called the Boston Blade Roast (also known as Boston- style Butt), comes from the area near the loin and contains the shoulder blade bone.


Is a 4+ pound boneless Butt legal?


Yes, as long as the muscles around the bone are present.




After inspection can the Butt be trimmed down to the pork collar?


No. The rule allows trimming but after trimming it still has to meet the definition of PORK. Therefore, post trimmed pork should contain all the muscles of the inspected product.

This is the best explanation that covers word by word an explanation for any question, wordsmith change or rule bending that I have ever seen for anything... Read this and believe the intent of the KCBS BOD of the 2014 rule as intended... :clap2:

I will take the KCBS BOD 2014 Pork Rule as written for each word and apply as a Rep at any contest I am privileged to represent for The Kansas Barbeque Society.

Bill Maes
 
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