Problems with Pitmaker vaults and safes

JS-TX said:

Are the safe and vault reverse flow type of cookers?

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Yes, verticle reverse flow

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You can't compare the Vault to the Safe, IMHO, because of the size difference. I know lots of folks on the Safe that have no issues.

Ball valves will be a mod / addition for the Vault in the future.

Yet another try to have a satisfying experience with the Pitmaker Safe this time running no water in the cooker and running the Guru. I have used high temp duct tape to make sure the only air coming in is through the fan and the fan was choked off to half, the exhaust was also half closed......brought out the flame thrower and warmed up the cooking chamber a little then warmed up the charcoal chamber until the temp probes on the Guru were at 215. I set the temp on the guru to 215 I then inserted the half full charcoal grate with a 1/8 of that lit lump charcoal. I went inside got the pork chops and the temps had raised to 245 (not unexpected). Had the chops on for about 1-1/2 hours and the temps had risen to 285. Pulled the chops came in ate dinner and went back out to a pit at 362.....This is the last straw. I cant trust this pit. There is no way I could smoke something like jerky at 150. It is a pain in the butt to run water in it runs to hot without water, you have to sit on the thing with or without the Guru, it is beautiful and is built like a tank but that isnt a good trade off if it doesnt do what I need it to do.....the wife is going to flip but it is time for a new smoker!:mmph:

I really don't know why you are having so much trouble with your Safe. I've had mine for 2 months and done about 8 smokes on it. I don't use water and the lowest temp I smoke at is 225. Only once did it "run away" and that was only to 300. It was my fault. It was at 200 and I was trying to raise it to 250, so I opened the vent 1/4" more and neglected it for about an hour. My bad......
I actually use a ruler to set my inlet now. When I set mine to 1/2 inch open, I can maintain a temperature where it is at. It can be at 225, 250 or higher. At one half inch, the temperature is maintained. If I open it even slightly more, the temp will start to rise.
I suggest you start "measuring" your inlet vent and experiment. I keep a ruler on my prep table all the time. I also adjust the outlet vent accordingly.
I also found that there is a tiny bit of in and out play on my vent, so I always make sure that I have it pushed in when I set it.
Extremely small adjustments make a big difference in the temps.
When I open the door for any length of time and then close it, I open my vents all the way to establish a "good" air flow. When the temp gets close to my target setting, I set it at "exactly" 1/2". Of course yours may be different.
I had a large ceramic Kamado for over 12 years, so I learned what effects a small inlet air flow can have on a very well insulated smoker.

You have to learn what it takes on your new smoker. This Pitmaker Safe is even more sensitive to air inlet than my old Kamado, so I had to learn some new stuff about it.

I don't use a Guru. It may be your problem.........

I hope you don't give up.

Doc

One of our local cooks has been the IBCA cooker of the year two years in a row now, he cooks on a Safe. Another buddy has now owned a safe for about three months now and has three RGC's on bis new safe. Second guy owns a restaurant and regularly puts his practice meats on at home( about 15 minutes from restaurant) and leaves the pit alone for hours before he goes to check his meats, has done it both with and without a Guru and no problems at all. He does cook at 275 to 300 but the temps do not vary or fluctuate once he sets it. Just dont see why your having those issues, something not adding up.

I just dont see the need for a guru or the like to run a safe. IMHO

My guess is that the Safe/Vault are much like my insulated keg. IF that's the case the 2 things you should keep in mind to prevent temps from not running away are:

Start with a small fire (in my keg it's an area slightly smaller than a baseball). It's always easier to stoke a fire then it is to get it smaller. Also don't put any wood chunks directly on the lit area.

2nd thing is you have to nurse the temp. up slowly. It takes time to heat up all that metal and the heat slowly accumulates in the cooking chamber, remember the insulation is doing it's job. It takes longer this way to get up to temp. but that's just part of the cooking process for me anyway. I don't use water in my keg, but IMO water seems to complicate the matter. I'm sure others have figured this out though.

I'm wondering why too. I see some folk using forced draft on for example a UDS now with them being so stable with temps it appears overkill to run induction on them. Have we gotten into more is better thinking and actually overshooting the mark?

I don't run a up to date Guru or Stoker being mine is analog but wouldn't these blowers aim for a set temp then once reached and cut out the actual heat building up in the walls continue to rise naturally causing a over shoot?
Bringing the temps back down becomes a chore while now the induction has caused more fuel glowing that normally needed to sustain the set mark?

The question becomes do we need forced draft on these cookers or would a remote thermo with alarm do far better at monitoring ? Granted it puts the human element back into play but being they run pretty rock solid shouldn't be a problem.

I have had my share of issues as well, but I will tell you guys who only use the door thermometer. You can get a 50+F variance between shelves(top to bottom). Just an FYI. They are now producing Vaults with my ball valve design.

Yes, on an insulated pit a Guru or Stoker will often overshoot your target temp. These don't account for the gradual accumulation of heat in these type of cookers. However, you can do a stepped approach. For example if your target temp is 275, set the controller to 190*, overshoot will be level out to about 215*, set the controller to 230*, overshoot will level out to 245*, etc... PITA I admit but useful for an unattended overnight cook. My keg can be extremely air sensitive, so I will put the meat on during the ramping up period, so I don't have to open my cooker when the temp. is on target. The top vent is usually open just a crack too, I bet the exhaust vents on these safes should be 3/4 closed.

We are in the same train of thought JS.

I have a CyberQ and and was keeping an eye on the fan. It didnt come on at all being that the set point was were I warmend the pit up to with a weed burner. I did expect the temps to climb somewhat after heating and they did into the 240's (acceptable). With the damper half open on the fan and the rest of the intake taped up the temps kept climbing. I dont rely on the Temp Gauge on the door it is way off. Last night I used the guru pit probe along with one of the open meat probes to keep an ey on temperature.

I suppose I am lucky. My door temp gauge reads 10deg low from my electronic probes. I have noticed that is is slower to react.

I am doing two racks of ribs right now and my Safe has held steady at 228deg for three hours now with the inlet at 1/2inch and the out vent open about the same.
I started with my charcoal box full of lump and a split of hickory.
Pre heated with a weed burner and added about a large fist of glowing coals in the corner touching the wood and the lump. Takes me about an hour to inch up to my target temp. I use that time to prep the meat.
Getting ready to foil. I have had great success with the 3-2-1 method.

So how much do you want for it? I have a buddie here in Chicagoland who is seriously considering buying one.

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rabeb25 said:

I have had my share of issues as well, but I will tell you guys who only use the door thermometer. You can get a 50+F variance between shelves(top to bottom). Just an FYI. They are now producing Vaults with my ball valve design.

Click to expand...

My Safe only shows about a 15 deg variance from top to bottom.
I guess because it is much smaller than the Vault.

I wish I could add the ball valve. It would make my life a bit easier.
Perhaps they will offer an upgrade that I can just bolt on.

WhiskeyPigBbq said:

Fail.........temp down below 200 from 275 and close to half the lump its gone after less than 2 hours. Intake half open and exhaust fully open.. Back to three drawing board tomorrow.

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Can we get some photographs of the set up and exactly what you are doing?

Have you used any other means to check the temp inside the cooker other than the door and the Guru?

I'm curious to see the amount of fuel you start off with if it's half gone in two hours. If it's burning that fast with a full load then I would expect your temps to be in the grilling range.

Just did a test today as I was getting ready to smoke a turkey and some chickens.
I've never smoked at 325 before, but that seems to be the consensus for fowl to get the skin crisp.

True. The top and bottom grate had a variance of about 50degs but only on the heating up phase. When I stabilized the temp at about 210deg and waited for about 30 minutes to make sure, the variance from top to bottom grate was 11 degrees.
My door thermometer was overall 10degs low in the center. So if I want the top grate actual temperature, I add 15degs to the reading and for the bottom grate, I only add 5degs.

Just learning my new pit. It's fun.
Trying some pecan today for the first time also. It really has a different smell.

Those door thermometers are adjustable.