Judging questions...

tmcmaster said:

As a newly (like in the last 2 hours) minted CBJ, I have a few questions that I didn't think were answered by our instructor... maybe someone form the group can help a newb out...

1 - When judging appearence, how much does.should garnish or lack of weigh in your score? Does it or could it be looked up as a 'marked box' if no garnish is there? KCBS does not require garnish, so no, it wouldn't be a marked box if no garnish. If the use of garnish makes the meat look more appealing, judge appropriately. Same as if it's sloppy or haphazard. Remember though, it's a meat contest, not a greens contest!

2 - Does the texture of the brisket change so dramatically if it is pulled/chopped that it could create an illusion of properly cooked beef, if it is overcooked?
It could. Overcooked brisket will likely be dried out, and also may not hold together. Your class intructor probably made mention of a pull test. Also, remember, the classes all recommend pencil thickness, but it isn't' a requirement. If it's sliced thicker, it could mean it's overcooked and the team is trying to keep it from falling apart, or it could just be a thick slice. Let your tastebuds tell you. Same with undercooked, If it's paper thin, it might be because it's undercooked

3 - Would there ever be an instance where there were only 5 judges at a table?

Yes, sometimes. There needs to be 1 judge per team cooking, so sometimes a table will have fewer than 6 judges

I will post others if anyone is so kind as to answer these for a newb.

Thanks!
:thumb:

Click to expand...

Judging will be done by a team of 6 persons, who are at least 16 years of age.

Click to expand...

tmcmaster said:

2 - Does the texture of the brisket change so dramatically if it is pulled/chopped that it could create an illusion of properly cooked beef, if it is overcooked?

Click to expand...

monty3777 said:

I think judges must do their absolute best to not "guess" why something is presented the way it is..... If a judge is already judging whether the brisket is over/under cooked at the appearance stage of judging the cook is already screwed.

If the cook wishes to present pulled or chopped brisket then perhaps that's because it is a better product when served that way. Won't know until you taste it.

(getting off my soapbox).

Click to expand...

monty3777 said:

This is one issue that I feel strongly about so I'll comment. I think judges must do their absolute best to not "guess" why something is presented the way it is. I know that someone somewhere decided that a slice of brisket must be the width of a pencil - and that's what I'll give the judges. However, I think that the determination of whether or not brisket is properly cooked can only come from tasting it and checking the texture. If a judge is already judging whether the brisket is over/under cooked at the appearance stage of judging the cook is already screwed.

If the cook wishes to present pulled or chopped brisket then perhaps that's because it is a better product when served that way. Won't know until you taste it.

(getting off my soapbox).

Click to expand...

tmcmaster said:

As a newly (like in the last 2 hours) minted CBJ, I have a few questions that I didn't think were answered by our instructor... maybe someone form the group can help a newb out...

1 - When judging appearence, how much does.should garnish or lack of weigh in your score? Does it or could it be looked up as a 'marked box' if no garnish is there? Theoretically, garnish is not supposed to be judged because using it is optional(This should have been covered in class). The reality, however, is that a well garnished box usually just looks better than one without garnish. I judge appearance based on two main criteria.
1. How badly do I want to dive into that box
2. Does it look like real care was taken in the presentation.
To your second question, because garnish is optional, the lack of it should NEVER be considered marking.

2 - Does the texture of the brisket change so dramatically if it is pulled/chopped that it could create an illusion of properly cooked beef, if it is overcooked?
Maybe, but it is important to judge it the way it is presented as long as it is within the rules. I consider the KCBS guidlines as to what is or isn't tender(like in ribs and brisket) as an attempt to limit subjectivity as much as possible by incorporating an emperical system by which to measure. Therefore, when presented with brisket that is sliced, the pull test is valid. When presented with meat prepared in a way not specifically adressed by KCBS guidlines(like chopped brisket), but still within the rules, a judge should use their best judgement. If KCBS has an opinion as to what chopped brisket should be like, they need to include that information in their training.

3 - Would there ever be an instance where there were only 5 judges at a table?
No, because as others have mentioned here, it would break the scoring system. You might have the table captain pulling double duty, or each table may get more(really rare) or less(fairly common) than 6 entries, but you should never see less than 6 judges at a table in a sanctioned event.

I will post others if anyone is so kind as to answer these for a newb.

Thanks!
:thumb:

Click to expand...

tmcmaster said:

As a newly (like in the last 2 hours) minted CBJ, I have a few questions that I didn't think were answered by our instructor... maybe someone form the group can help a newb out...


3 - Would there ever be an instance where there were only 5 judges at a table?

There can NEVER be LESS than nor MORE than SIX judges at a table. A judge can perform duel duty and serve as judge/table captain. The scoring system is based upon six scores per table. This is mandatory in all contests.

Merl Whitebook
KCBS CBJ Instructor

Click to expand...

CivilWarBBQ said:

For clarification, from the KCBS 2010 Official Rules, Judging Procedures Rule #2
Judging will be done by a team of 6 persons, who are at least 16 years of age. :

Click to expand...