Comment Cards?

i dunno, i should prolly stay out cuz i'm an ass and what do i know, but here are my simple thoughts....

comment cards aren't that useful...

1)when your cook ain't that great, ya damn well know it already.
2)if you get 999986, we can't call out that judge who gave a 6 publicly to write a card. they'll never score honestly again(re-educated through tracking, maybe). and would YOU change your cook because of it anyway? me? no.
3)seasoned cooks know what they are doing, too salty, dry, too tender, they knew it already before the it hit the judges. unseasoned cooks are still learning and their scores will reflect that OVERALL.

if a rookie cook gets 5 sevens and 1 five, and the comment card on the 5 reads too salty, they may reduce the salt, when the other 5 judges liked the salt level and the one judge was off base.

i dunno, thats just me. when banging food went into the box i knew it. when mediocre food went into the box i knew it too. the scoring directly correlated.

bignburlyman said:

I am a judge and I like the comment cards, I think it shows respect to the cook teams if you score them down if you can give them a reason for your score. I once gave a team a comment card for a score of 9 9 8, because it was a great rib but just a little too overdone. A checkbox list of comments would be ok, but might get tiresome if it has too many options to look through to find the comment you want.

As far as the team number on the comment card, this is my idea. I borrowed the card image posted by Rich Parker, (thanks), because I could not find an image online. I understand that just using a marker to black out the alternate number the writing or imprint can still show through so that doesn't work how about this:

The reps would write the team number to the side of the alternate number and just take a simple paper punch and punch out the area of the alternate number, example below. This example uses addition of 111 to the actual team number for the alternate number. This would allow use of the current comment card with no change and obliterate the alternate number. Just a thought.

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see, now ya got me goin...:twitch:

WTF does ALMOST too tender mean?

boogiesnap said:

i dunno, i should prolly stay out cuz i'm an ass and what do i know, but here are my simple thoughts....

comment cards aren't that useful...

1)when your cook ain't that great, ya damn well know it already.
2)if you get 999986, we can't call out that judge who gave a 6 publicly to write a card. they'll never score honestly again(re-educated through tracking, maybe). and would YOU change your cook because of it anyway? me? no.
3)seasoned cooks know what they are doing, too salty, dry, too tender, they knew it already before the it hit the judges. unseasoned cooks are still learning and their scores will reflect that OVERALL.

if a rookie cook gets 5 sevens and 1 five, and the comment card on the 5 reads too salty, they may reduce the salt, when the other 5 judges liked the salt level and the one judge was off base.

i dunno, thats just me. when banging food went into the box i knew it. when mediocre food went into the box i knew it too. the scoring directly correlated.

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Don't worry. Some of us are more than capable of handling data. Let's not do the LCD BS.

I think ( As a certified Judge myself ) that if you give someone a 6 or less, that you owe them an explanation and SHOULD be expected to fill out a comment card. It is only fair to them. On the other hand, if you have lazy judges that grade up because they don't want to have to fill out a comment card, it is counter productive. Quite a conundrum.

boogiesnap said:

comment cards aren't that useful...if you get 999986, we can't call out that judge who gave a 6 publicly to write a card. they'll never score honestly again(re-educated through tracking, maybe). and would YOU change your cook because of it anyway? me? no.

Click to expand...

If I was a competition cook (and I'm not) I would consider a 999 and a 986 a clue that I am not putting consistent quality samples into my box. Change your cook, no; change quality control building the box; perhaps yes? (edit to add: maybe it is not an issue with the judge....)

Hawg Father of Seoul said:

Don't worry. Some of us are more than capable of handling data. Let's not do the LCD BS.

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i'm not worried. i know when the samples are good and when they're not.

let's say this....if you get ALL 6's and one judge fills out a comment card, really think that is gonna help the cook? um, no their food sucked.

OR, if you get all 9's and one 5 and the judge filled out a comment card, gonna change your cook? um, no.

anything in between is subject to being subjective, a judges privieldge, and you can't change that.

interpret THAT data, fella.

BTW, did you mean LSD? because i have no idea what LCD(liquid crystal diodes)means in relation to competition BBQ.:becky:

BTW, did you mean LSD? because i have no idea what LCD(liquid crystal diodes)means in relation to competition BBQ.:becky:[/QUOTE]

How does LSD help your cook?? HAHAHA

spicewine said:

I think ( As a certified Judge myself ) that if you give someone a 6 or less, that you owe them an explanation and SHOULD be expected to fill out a comment card. It is only fair to them. On the other hand, if you have lazy judges that grade up because they don't want to have to fill out a comment card, it is counter productive. Quite a conundrum.

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see, THAT is the conundrum. what if EVERY judge gave that sample a six? do you really need a comment card, really? my comment would be "take a class". or read and learn more here. :becky:

but i don't know what the other judges scored, and it doesn't matter.

OR if only one did score a 6, and the rest were nines, would YOU change anything because of what one judge thought? i think not.

boogiesnap said:

let's say this....if you get ALL 6's and one judge fills out a comment card, really think that is gonna help the cook? um, no their food sucked.

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For a newer team, I think comment cards help them figure out how their food "sucked" from a competition perspective.

I know a lot of cooks who got into competition bbq because their friends and family told them they had the best bbq they'd ever tasted. I know when I first started, I thought the stuff I turned in was pretty damn good, but it really sucked, from a competition perspective. It would have been nice to have a little feedback back then on how and why it sucked.

Now, I know when it sucks, but back then, I was king of my driveway, no one had ever told me before that it sucked.

mike, agreed, but i don't think you're going to get that kind of depth in a comment card.

the 5's and 6's will tell you all you need to know at that point. as hawg so eloquently stated, read the data provided.

change what you're putting in the box.

boogiesnap said:

mike, agreed, but i don't think you're going to get that kind of depth in a comment card.

the 5's and 6's will tell you all you need to know at that point. as hawg so eloquently stated, read the data provided.

change what you're putting in the box.

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Change how?

Dry...tough...falling apart....sloppy....too spicy....those are all comments I could use as a newbie to help me figure out what changes to make. As an experienced cook, I disregard most, if not all, of it.

Comment cards aren't for ALL of us, but they are for SOME of us....especially the SOME of us that we ALL need to help this hobby grow.

fair enough. i still think it's alot of to do for a somewhat small return.

I think even one word comments can help show what went wrong.

I turned in ribs awhile ago that were great right off the smoker.Taste and appearance were good but I got two 5s in texture.That could have meant they were mushy or it coulda meant they were tough.Thankfully 2 judges wrote "tough" on the cards and it became obvious I had totally screwed up the timing of cutting the ribs, they went in the box way to early and sat way to long before hitting the table, nobodys fault but mine but thanks to those comments you can bet it wont happen again.

smokinrack said:

I think even one word comments can help show what went wrong.

I turned in ribs awhile ago that were great right off the smoker.Taste and appearance were good but I got two 5s in texture.That could have meant they were mushy or it coulda meant they were tough.Thankfully 2 judges wrote "tough" on the cards and it became obvious I had totally screwed up the timing of cutting the ribs, they went in the box way to early and sat way to long before hitting the table, nobodys fault but mine but thanks to those comments you can bet it wont happen again.

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edit-reread. i get it. good deal. :thumb:

boogiesnap said:

see, now ya got me goin...:twitch:

WTF does ALMOST too tender mean?

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Ok, we will both get goin, lol. WHERE did I say almost too tender? I said it was overdone, it was a little mushy when chewed, otherwise it was a great rib.

Edit to add: I see you were responding to the comment card that I used as an example. That was not MY comment card.

My only comment about comment cards is that I want to know wtf Judge # 3 was thinking when he gave me 666 and 5 other judges gave me either 999 or 998 or some combination of 9's and 8's...

bbq.tom said:

Hance (Lake Dogs) designed a comment card with pre-populated comments that could be checked off to indicate the situation - both good and bad. Sure would great to see his idea again!

If you listen to the July BOD meeting you will know/understand the concerns over the comment cards and how the REPS efforts would increase to make them work.

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Candy,

We can search around and find what I'd come up with a while back.

The problem, as I see it, is two fold:

1. Judges perspective: It's time consuming to fill out and frankly a pain in the butt

2. Cooks perspective: Is only useful if it's accurate


What, a comment card be inaccurate? Say it's' not so. Well, I've received both positive and negative comments on my card, but the ones that drive me batty are those that suggest that the meat was undercooked and falling apart, or overcooked and tough, etc. etc.

I'm of the opinion that they should be short, sweet, and to the point. And, this can be done by a check box system, by category:

Tenderness, is too:
_ tough _ dry _ crunchy
_ mushy _ greasy
_ grainy/gristle _ fatty

Taste, is too (or tastes like):
_ bland _ spicy/hot _ smokey
_ salty _ burned _ off-taste
_ sweet _ fuel/petroleum _ saucy


etc. I had a system that was pretty close (much better than above) a while back. Let me see if I cant find it.

I think the check box system would facilitate speed for judges and give the cooks specific feedback without the B.S.

Below is some that I said earlier:
------------------------------------------

For a long time I've been a fan of check-box comments, because knowing some of this could/would be helpful (IMHO). I mean, as a cook, I'd like to know. Probably the easiest would be tenderness:
Mushy Tough Rubbery Crunchy Greasy Dry Fatty

Taste might be:
too salty too sweet bland petroleum too spicy/hot off-taste too smokey too saucy

Appearance, probably not. It's purely subjective as to what the individual finds appetizing. They either do, or dont.

boogiesnap said:

i'm not worried. i know when the samples are good and when they're not.

let's say this....if you get ALL 6's and one judge fills out a comment card, really think that is gonna help the cook? um, no their food sucked.

OR, if you get all 9's and one 5 and the judge filled out a comment card, gonna change your cook? um, no.

anything in between is subject to being subjective, a judges privieldge, and you can't change that.

interpret THAT data, fella.

BTW, did you mean LSD? because i have no idea what LCD(liquid crystal diodes)means in relation to competition BBQ.:becky:

Click to expand...

Least common denominator. A common acronym when talking data. Also a way of stating there is no reason to dumb it down for those not capable of digesting the data.

Sure you know everything that the judges are thinking, but I prefer to hear it from them.

Boogie, I've had scores come back all over the place and comment cards would've really helped. I've also had helpful cards, and some that were bizarre and showed how little the judge knew and didnt tell me why he/she didnt like it... So, for me, all over the chart.

I think they can be VERY helpful, particularly to the newer cooks or those doing a "test run" if you will. But, they're only as good as they are accurate. Telling someone not to use lighterfluid when they dont use lighterfluid, or telling them how to cook, is goofy and stupid. However, saying something like "it tastes or smells like petroleum" is much better. Who knows, they may not have used any but their smoker may wreak of it...

I like them, I think they can be very helpful, but in their current way they're largely useless...

If I get a comment card for a 9 that says the taste was just the right amount of sweet and spice, but on the same entry I get a 6 from a different judge saying it's too spicy, should I write that off? I'm going to say no.

In the past if I get 8,8,9,9,8,6 for taste, I'm at a loss for why that 6 got in there. Granted, the 6 will probably not be counted, but I'm looking at the next contest where I may have two judge 6's that don't like spicy.

I can't tell you right now without tasting the product of whether I thought it was too spicy or not that day, but my starting point is a lot narrower window with mandatory comments, regardless of the score.

I can make the decision of changing or not based on what I know the product to be that day, combined with the judges comments and scores.