Question on turn in boxes for KCBS Comps

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wormdrink67

Guest
My team has had some problems this year getting our turn in box lids to close without getting sauce on the lid. We were under the impression that the appearance scores will be docked if there is sauce on the lid from where it touches the meat when closed...is this true?
 
Not supposed to be scored down for it, but I wouldn't count on it.

Might want to work on getting the meat to sit a little lower in the box.
 
wormdrink67 said:
My team has had some problems this year getting our turn in box lids to close without getting sauce on the lid. We were under the impression that the appearance scores will be docked if there is sauce on the lid from where it touches the meat when closed...is this true?
Click to expand...
The sauce on the lid shouldn't affect your appearance scores. The real problem lies in the fact that if your getting sauce on the lid when you close the box, you're changing the appearance of the meat you have in the box by smudging the sauce on it. As was suggested, try adjusting your garnish so the meat sits lower in the box.
 
wormdrink67 said:
My team has had some problems this year getting our turn in box lids to close without getting sauce on the lid. We were under the impression that the appearance scores will be docked if there is sauce on the lid from where it touches the meat when closed...is this true?
Click to expand...

You should NOT be penalized for sauce on the lid. You never know if a volunteer may have stacked the box. But as stated above, if you get sauce on the lid, it could change the appearance of the product. For this reason, we always stress to Table Captains not to stack any boxes on top of each other.
 
Smokedelic said:
The sauce on the lid shouldn't affect your appearance scores. The real problem lies in the fact that if your getting sauce on the lid when you close the box, you're changing the appearance of the meat you have in the box by smudging the sauce on it. As was suggested, try adjusting your garnish so the meat sits lower in the box.
Click to expand...


What he ^^^^ said.

In addition, if I'm short on time, and/or a box is really full I will try to take a damp paper towel with me to clean up the lid just in case there is some sauce from a rapid trip:wink: If a judge or two are attracted to the sauce on the lid they may not get a good look at the meat and score lower, unintentionally. Sauce on the lid may subconsciously lead a judge to focus on the sauce on the product that has been disturbed, and also lead to a slightly lower appearance score. Running a pan of sauce with the box usually isn't a viable option....

It's just an option I like to have when possible.
 
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Boxes aren't supposed to be stacked, yet we've seen multiple instances of it this season. I've talked to a Master Judge who says that he will base his evaluation on whatever non-smudged area remains visible, but I can't rely on all judges to do the same.

The fact remains that if some of the meat product's finish gets left on the lid, it's not the same product that I worked so hard on and took a picture of-- so the onus is on me to make sure my product's placement doesn't come up into the lid. There's a fine line between a full box, and one that'll give you lid trouble.
 
Wow guys, thanks for all your help. It is much appreciated. Haven't gotten completely acquainted with the site yet, but again, your information has been a great help. Thanks so much.
 
wormdrink67 said:
My team has had some problems this year getting our turn in box lids to close without getting sauce on the lid.
Click to expand...

Your best option to avoid this is to adjust your garnish. I look at the box and determine wether it is shallow or not. I only use parsley and will squish it down for the meats that are most likely to hit the lid.
 
I don't look at the box lid during the few seconds I have to appearance score, I focus on the meat entry itself. Smudging may be a concern for you.

I have been able to find bread trays big enough to fix 6 without stacking. I just have to be picky about getting the style available here that has enough flat space to do that.
Neither our reps or I want to be stacking entries.
 
I was taught to build the box as tall as you can. So we will use chopped lettuce under the parsley in our brisket and pork boxes, making them taller. And we will use just parsly in our rib and chicken boxes, making them shorter.
We build each box differently.
 
I don"t have any idea how a particular judge is gonna respond to sauce on the lid.
I am not even sure how I would respond depending on the amount and overall condition of the entry.

So, I just avoid the "discussion" at comps by making sure my entries are clear of the lid. Then I do not have to worry about anyones interpretation or opinion.

Works for me--your milage might vary :-D

TIM
 
I recently sat at a table with a judge that also competes. He stated that if there is smudged sauce on the inside lid he dings that entry on appearance. (I'm not sure what a ding is and how it affects the score) He felt the box was overfilled, that he's never seen boxes stacked and therefore it should be judged down. No amount of discussion was going to change his mind. I'd like to tell you that we don't judge down for smudged sauce on the inside lid but you take a chance of hitting a table with a judge like this guy. If you do...I'm sorry, we're not all like that!!
 
I judged this past weekend and some boxes the meat rubbed on top of box. I personally ignored it and tried to judge as if it didn't happen based on how then other pieces on top that were unblemished looked. Still hard to take your eye off one piece that stands out different.
 
Sauce on the lid happens fairly often and, as a judge, I could care less. I'm looking at the meat. As mentioned -- if this bothers you -- use less greenery and keep your stuff lower in the box. Yes, they do get stacked sometimes. I guess this concern comes from the recent trend of "painting" ribs and chicken with sauce. If some gets on the lid I won't mark the entry down because of it -- I'm looking for eye-appeal, not inadvertent sauce-smearing:icon_smile_tongue:
 
I never look at the inside of the lid when I'm judging. I consider it 'collateral damage' when the boxes are sorted and moved to the judging tables. Appearance to me is 99.9% how the meat looks and does it make me want to take a really big bite of it. The other 0.1% is the sides of the box and did the cook make an attempt to clean their mess. It's sometimes very obvious that the team made a huge mess and didn't bother to clean at all. Especially in backyard.

Russ
 
I thought it would be considered "marking" the box??? We always make sure our boxes are as clean as when they handed them to us before turn in.
 
we will spend some time opening and closing the box looking for sauce. sometimes we compress the garnish until we can open it with no marks, but i guess it's going to get on there sometimes in transit anyway.
 
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