ynotfehc
Full Fledged Farker
Potlucks and church meals are protected in Mn, because you are assuming the risk by eating the food, is my understsnding.
How to Legally Sell BBQ From Home?
- Thread starter AKMIMNAK
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- bbq business bbq truck
IamMadMan
somebody shut me the fark up.
I'm late to the party, but here are my two cents on the matter.
You asked the question, so don't get mad at my response;
Without being incorporated as a Limited Liability Corporation (LLC), having food service liability insurance, all the proper permits, licenses, certifications, and required inspections, that you are taking a huge financial risk without limits.
No one should engage in the food business without being incorporated as a legitimate business. Without being incorporated you and all of your assets owned by you and your family are up for grabs in a lawsuit. Incorporating separates you and your personal assets from those of the recognized corporate entity. In a lawsuit they can sue the corporation but cannot come after you unless you blatantly caused harm as an individual.
If you are planning on cooking for money, even for a friend you should be aware of the laws and the risks involved. By ignoring these and not investigating the legal requirements for any event, you are putting yourself at a great risk. Ignorance of the laws and regulations are not a defense, in fact it will just help to build a stronger case against you if something should go wrong. More importantly, something doesn't actually have to go wrong, one only needs to claim they got ill from your food.
First: Are you incorporated as a Limited Liability Corporation?
Second: Will you be operating within State, Local, and Health Department regulations?
Do you have a business license, a food handlers permit, and will you prepare the food in a health department approved and inspected commercial kitchen?
Third: Do you have the proper liability insurance to cover you and the patrons?
Fourth and lastly... are you Serve-Safe Certified?
Be aware that without these qualifications and being fully covered with insurance, you are taking a huge huge risk both personally and financially.
Without proper procedure and requirements, there are too many risks and not enough rewards. What legal ramifications are you willing to endure should this become an issue of someone getting ill?
Trying to sneak past the "government" can lead to way too many bad things for you. This is a risk that anyone with common sense should never consider taking.
How much of your personal assets are you willing to risk due to foodborne illness issues should they occur?
Or if someone claims they became ill sometime after eating your food. If a civil suit is brought against you because of this claim, you could lose your home, your savings, everything you own, and even your investments.
It might be difficult to prove with a single case, but what if someone who handles the food in the chain accidentally contaminates something. You will have more than one case from the event. Then you have an unlicensed food handler, who is not using a state approved and inspected kitchen, and who has failed to get all the required permits, certifications, licenses, and local inspections.
It's not just the fines and penalties from the state and local authorities for operating illegally, but when you have a civil suit filed the tables turn. Just the fact that you ignored all the required permits, licenses, certifications, and inspections are stacked against you. Couple that with many states who do not elect judges, but rather politically appoint them; then you can have an inexperienced judge in law who has their own interpretation or opinion of the law to deal with. Some of these appointed judges do not know the law and will make decisions based on personal opinions.
As stated above the extreme fines and penalties imposed by the state, county, and local authorities can't be argued in a court of law, ignorance of them just isn't a feasible defense. Then you have the legal fees, which can be exorbitant, even if they can't prove the case. This is why many corporations find it easier just to settle out of court than run the legal gamut.
You also have many corporations that have tried to fight a case of stupidity in court and have lost millions trying to win. Look at the case of a patron who ordered hot coffee and drank it while operating a motor vehicle. Consequently they spilled hot coffee on themselves as a direct result of their own personal action. Yet a good lawyer put the blame on the corporation, and they successfully sued for over a million dollars. Common sense does not prevail in a litigious society.
My intent is not to discourage you, but to point out the possible ramifications of this type of event without the proper "coverage", "licenses", "certifications" and "permits".
Some think they have a legal defense because:
Some would say that they are doing this as a hired hand and they should be covered under the companies / organizations insurance policy. Not true, unless you are getting a weekly paycheck and paying into workman's compensation, disability insurance, state and federal taxes, then you are not an employee. If you are paying these taxes you could be considered an employee, but you could also be held personally liable as a co-defendant because you used your personal equipment to cook the food.
Secondly if you are using your own equipment to cook with, many states view this as a sub-contractor status where YOU are responsible for all of your own permits, licenses, and liability insurance. So again, you have legal fees to defend a lawsuit, coupled with fines and penalties imposed by the state, county, and local authorities.
Most importantly, if you do this for a friend you trust, they may not sue you, but then you have to worry about the many others who will be in attendance. Some might be looking for an easy way to make a quick buck. How luck do you feel?
But yet others will claim being free from everything because they are selling food by the tray. However unless you are legally licensed to sell cold / frozen foods, then you have lost control of the food until it was served;
You are responsible to properly prepare, maintain, and/or serve food fit for human consumption.
You are responsible to properly take the temperature of the food at the time of service.
You are responsible to ensure all persons were wearing gloves while prepping and serving the food.
It may be a one in a millon case that someone becomes ill, but we live in a litigious society today. People make false claims all the time in an effort to sue for personal gain. If you are prepared to risk it ALL then go ahead. Otherwise walk away until they do the necessary diligence to cover themselves.
This is a totally different thing than just cooking great BBQ for your family in your back yard for personal friends.
If you want to go into business then take the appropriate steps. If not the be prepared to accept all possible consequences.
It only takes one person to claim you made them ill......
You asked the question, so don't get mad at my response;
Without being incorporated as a Limited Liability Corporation (LLC), having food service liability insurance, all the proper permits, licenses, certifications, and required inspections, that you are taking a huge financial risk without limits.
No one should engage in the food business without being incorporated as a legitimate business. Without being incorporated you and all of your assets owned by you and your family are up for grabs in a lawsuit. Incorporating separates you and your personal assets from those of the recognized corporate entity. In a lawsuit they can sue the corporation but cannot come after you unless you blatantly caused harm as an individual.
If you are planning on cooking for money, even for a friend you should be aware of the laws and the risks involved. By ignoring these and not investigating the legal requirements for any event, you are putting yourself at a great risk. Ignorance of the laws and regulations are not a defense, in fact it will just help to build a stronger case against you if something should go wrong. More importantly, something doesn't actually have to go wrong, one only needs to claim they got ill from your food.
First: Are you incorporated as a Limited Liability Corporation?
Second: Will you be operating within State, Local, and Health Department regulations?
Do you have a business license, a food handlers permit, and will you prepare the food in a health department approved and inspected commercial kitchen?
Third: Do you have the proper liability insurance to cover you and the patrons?
Fourth and lastly... are you Serve-Safe Certified?
Be aware that without these qualifications and being fully covered with insurance, you are taking a huge huge risk both personally and financially.
Without proper procedure and requirements, there are too many risks and not enough rewards. What legal ramifications are you willing to endure should this become an issue of someone getting ill?
Trying to sneak past the "government" can lead to way too many bad things for you. This is a risk that anyone with common sense should never consider taking.
How much of your personal assets are you willing to risk due to foodborne illness issues should they occur?
Or if someone claims they became ill sometime after eating your food. If a civil suit is brought against you because of this claim, you could lose your home, your savings, everything you own, and even your investments.
It might be difficult to prove with a single case, but what if someone who handles the food in the chain accidentally contaminates something. You will have more than one case from the event. Then you have an unlicensed food handler, who is not using a state approved and inspected kitchen, and who has failed to get all the required permits, certifications, licenses, and local inspections.
It's not just the fines and penalties from the state and local authorities for operating illegally, but when you have a civil suit filed the tables turn. Just the fact that you ignored all the required permits, licenses, certifications, and inspections are stacked against you. Couple that with many states who do not elect judges, but rather politically appoint them; then you can have an inexperienced judge in law who has their own interpretation or opinion of the law to deal with. Some of these appointed judges do not know the law and will make decisions based on personal opinions.
As stated above the extreme fines and penalties imposed by the state, county, and local authorities can't be argued in a court of law, ignorance of them just isn't a feasible defense. Then you have the legal fees, which can be exorbitant, even if they can't prove the case. This is why many corporations find it easier just to settle out of court than run the legal gamut.
You also have many corporations that have tried to fight a case of stupidity in court and have lost millions trying to win. Look at the case of a patron who ordered hot coffee and drank it while operating a motor vehicle. Consequently they spilled hot coffee on themselves as a direct result of their own personal action. Yet a good lawyer put the blame on the corporation, and they successfully sued for over a million dollars. Common sense does not prevail in a litigious society.
My intent is not to discourage you, but to point out the possible ramifications of this type of event without the proper "coverage", "licenses", "certifications" and "permits".
Some think they have a legal defense because:
Some would say that they are doing this as a hired hand and they should be covered under the companies / organizations insurance policy. Not true, unless you are getting a weekly paycheck and paying into workman's compensation, disability insurance, state and federal taxes, then you are not an employee. If you are paying these taxes you could be considered an employee, but you could also be held personally liable as a co-defendant because you used your personal equipment to cook the food.
Secondly if you are using your own equipment to cook with, many states view this as a sub-contractor status where YOU are responsible for all of your own permits, licenses, and liability insurance. So again, you have legal fees to defend a lawsuit, coupled with fines and penalties imposed by the state, county, and local authorities.
Most importantly, if you do this for a friend you trust, they may not sue you, but then you have to worry about the many others who will be in attendance. Some might be looking for an easy way to make a quick buck. How luck do you feel?
But yet others will claim being free from everything because they are selling food by the tray. However unless you are legally licensed to sell cold / frozen foods, then you have lost control of the food until it was served;
You are responsible to properly prepare, maintain, and/or serve food fit for human consumption.
You are responsible to properly take the temperature of the food at the time of service.
You are responsible to ensure all persons were wearing gloves while prepping and serving the food.
It may be a one in a millon case that someone becomes ill, but we live in a litigious society today. People make false claims all the time in an effort to sue for personal gain. If you are prepared to risk it ALL then go ahead. Otherwise walk away until they do the necessary diligence to cover themselves.
This is a totally different thing than just cooking great BBQ for your family in your back yard for personal friends.
If you want to go into business then take the appropriate steps. If not the be prepared to accept all possible consequences.
It only takes one person to claim you made them ill......
Last edited:
Nuco59
Babbling Farker
Wow - nice write up from IamMadMan. Not sure if it's "sticky worthy"-might be since this subject only comes up a bit less than "is this drum ok for a UDS?" :grin:
It should not be taken as raining on anyone's parade or dreams- just good solid information to consider before you set out on this path.
And "it only takes one person" sadly applies to all sort of bad actors in all sort of situations these days.
.
It should not be taken as raining on anyone's parade or dreams- just good solid information to consider before you set out on this path.
And "it only takes one person" sadly applies to all sort of bad actors in all sort of situations these days.
.
sudsandswine
Quintessential Chatty Farker
It comes up quite a bit actually (and it is indeed a great write up), and I guarantee it's crossed the mind of almost every one of us at some point or another when friends and family say "your barbecue is really good, you should sell it"...which I'm sure happens all the time based on all the great food pics that get posted here.
NC Native
Knows what a fatty is.
I've found this varies by county. If I remember correctly, around here if the group has 501c3 status then they are exempt from health department inspection and licensing, but are only allowed to sell food once per month for no more than two consecutive days.
I think there are caveats to this such as you have to prepare and serve at the same location, no pre-cooking/packaging. I also assume that even though the local HD doesn't require inspection, you're still responsible for any real or perceived harm incurred.
Bummer to have that hanging over your head, I just like feeding people.
Mikhail
Babbling Farker
IamMadMan put it just as I would but with far more detailed knowledge. Unless you take the proper steps to protect yourself it is a risk wildly out of proportion to the potential reward.
Montana Jack
Knows what a fatty is.
OK, not on topic (exactly) but looking to see if anyone might sell er a pop with a bite of brisket, in Key West, son is getting married there end of January on the beach, not a huge wedding, maybe 25,
medic92
is one Smokin' Farker
Coming up next, "Jokes: How To Recognize Them So You Don't Look Silly For Taking Them Seriously". Stay tuned!
Cook
Babbling Farker
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An LLC is not a corporation. You get some of the benefits of those who are incorporated without actually being incorporated. LLC stands for Limited Liability Company (not Corporation).
With that said, I don't want to take away from any of the great information posted above. You guys are doing a good job.
All the "red tape" isn't about stealing business away from other restaurants...it's about public safety. It's when people don't pay the price of admission, like those that do this legally, that businesses might get upset. The argument is that Joe down the street isn't going to hurt your business...but Joe, Jan, Authur, Bob, Juan, Consuella, Fred, Mike, Mark, Jacob, Mitch, Vernon, Delilla, BriAnn, Daniel, Tabitha, Kimberly, Elizabeth, Tonya, Tabitha, and Steve might take away some of their business. Otherwise...the hoops you have to jump through are for food safety.
The issue of people getting sick is serious. All the time I hear "it only takes one person". Well...seriously...it's going to take more than one. One person complaining goes absolutely no where. If you're in this business legally, you might get a visit from an inspector...but nothing is going to happen. It's when 100 people get sick all on the same day, and your food happens to be the common denominator, is when you need to be worried.
Also, don't be fooled with the amount of money you can make in this game when you sell part-time. Most of the time you're selling at the same price that a restaurant might. But at the end of the day you really only have to cover your food cost with the remaining money being pure profit. The restaurant down the street has to also cover food cost...and electricity (my bill averages over $2k per month), payroll, FICA, insurance (multiple types), lease/mortgage payments, advertising, and all the other little upkeep items that pop up daily. So yeah...you may think you could make a killing because you sold $500 worth of barbecue on Saturday, but you may also fail to realize the real expense of being in business once you join the real game.
I can see a part-timer, especially an illegal one, profiting well over 60-70% of their total sales. The average restaurant profits less than 10% of sales. Keep that in mind.
With that said, I don't want to take away from any of the great information posted above. You guys are doing a good job.
All the "red tape" isn't about stealing business away from other restaurants...it's about public safety. It's when people don't pay the price of admission, like those that do this legally, that businesses might get upset. The argument is that Joe down the street isn't going to hurt your business...but Joe, Jan, Authur, Bob, Juan, Consuella, Fred, Mike, Mark, Jacob, Mitch, Vernon, Delilla, BriAnn, Daniel, Tabitha, Kimberly, Elizabeth, Tonya, Tabitha, and Steve might take away some of their business. Otherwise...the hoops you have to jump through are for food safety.
The issue of people getting sick is serious. All the time I hear "it only takes one person". Well...seriously...it's going to take more than one. One person complaining goes absolutely no where. If you're in this business legally, you might get a visit from an inspector...but nothing is going to happen. It's when 100 people get sick all on the same day, and your food happens to be the common denominator, is when you need to be worried.
Also, don't be fooled with the amount of money you can make in this game when you sell part-time. Most of the time you're selling at the same price that a restaurant might. But at the end of the day you really only have to cover your food cost with the remaining money being pure profit. The restaurant down the street has to also cover food cost...and electricity (my bill averages over $2k per month), payroll, FICA, insurance (multiple types), lease/mortgage payments, advertising, and all the other little upkeep items that pop up daily. So yeah...you may think you could make a killing because you sold $500 worth of barbecue on Saturday, but you may also fail to realize the real expense of being in business once you join the real game.
I can see a part-timer, especially an illegal one, profiting well over 60-70% of their total sales. The average restaurant profits less than 10% of sales. Keep that in mind.
SirPorkaLot
somebody shut me the fark up.
The two main benefits of a LLC are:
1. Taxes (easier to do as an LLC than as a corporate entity)
2. Limited (personal) liability
The second one is the reason most small biz owners go LLC out the gate and the first one is why they don’t all start as S Corps
To summarize what everyone has said:
Starting a business from the ground up is all about minimizing risk, maximizing profits and above all..cash flow
If you start a business on a platform built without regards to minimizing risk, then you are building a house of cards that WILL fail..it’s just a matter of time
kurtsara
is one Smokin' Farker
Oh good, I can’t wait.
This may be different for baked goods, but my mother got her home kitchen certified by the NC health department and is able to sell her cakes and breads. One of the main things they looked for were pets in the home. If you have pets, you can't get certified in NC.
SmoothBoarBBQ
is Blowin Smoke!
Yeah, baked goods are given quite a bit of leeway under what they call the "Cottage Food" laws. This thread was about selling BBQ out of the house, and for that purpose a home kitchen isn't going to get certified.
Pappy Q
is Blowin Smoke!
Some extremely valuable info on this thread. Makes me ponder about the comp world I’ve lived in and realize just how much of a “grey” area it is. There’s been many times I’ve seen really bad food handling to the point that there is no way I would want to be judging that food. Probably just a matter of time until a big lawsuit results from comps.
medic92
is one Smokin' Farker
Ok, I admit it. I laughed, that was a good one.
IamMadMan
somebody shut me the fark up.
wow.... was this at sanctioned competitions? I would think that poor food handling would be a call for disqualification from the governing authorities. As an official judge at a sanctioned site, I would think that you wouldn't have anything to worry about?
Sanctioned competitions follow a health code already in place, and they are usually inspected when the site is set-up. Refrigeration, Clean potable water, grey water storage, 3 basin sink, sanitary inspection of work area, cutting boards, gloves, utensils, ect are part of the initial inspection. Any violation would disqualify them from participating in the competition if it could not be rectified.
Also keep in mind that some competitors are also food vendors and their equipment is licensed and inspected in their home state as well as on-site. They have to meet code standards with equipment and sanitation as well as being certified to handle and serve food.
There is no competitor that I know of, who would "cut" corners or "skirt" any issue; simply because they go above and beyond to give their upmost best in the competition. I would think that you have more to worry about at your local restaurant than at a sanctioned competition. Maybe some competitions overlook the safety standards? I don't know?
Someone doesn't even have to get sick, just allege that they did. The legal fees to run the legal gambit can be atrocious! Even large corporations settle out of court for this simple reason.
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Pappy Q
is Blowin Smoke!
I’ve competed in over 100 KCBS comps in 6 different states and have never had or seen one single health inspection or check of any sanitary conditions. Do judges assume that health and sanitation are being checked?
SmoothBoarBBQ
is Blowin Smoke!
Yeah, I have no idea what that guy was talking about. Usually the meat inspection is me opening the cooler and them seeing ice, and that's it. Only at 1 contest have they actually asked me to show them all the meat.
I recently did a competition in Richmond, VA held by Sterling Ball and Big Poppa Smokers. This is the only contest I've ever done where they actually give you the meat (entry fee was $500), so they did an "inspection" to make sure that nobody had any other meat than what they gave us.
Other than that oddity I've never seen anybody inspect anything...done KCBS competitions in NC, SC, and VA.
Burnt at Both Endz
Babbling Farker
Guess I must be the unlucky one, because I can't think of any KCBS comps that I've done that I didn't have to show ALL four meats for proper inspections?
Yes, I've done over 100 comps and have had a few that I've seen a health inspector and been asked to show washing tubs. Even had a couple that I had to show certified fire extinguisher.
I'd be more concerned about judges taking home leftovers, without properly being cooled, than what my friends serve them.
IamMadMan
somebody shut me the fark up.
I guess I stand corrected, we must have had the inspections because we were a food vendor as well as a competitor. I just assumed everyone else had the inspections.
