What defines a great Barbecue Joint for you ?

The real test for me is brisket. If they can get that right, I can pretty much count on the rest being good.

CD

If the food is good, seriously, does anything else matter?

i see where vinnys going with this.

to me, I break them in 2 catagories..

BBQ Restaurant, and BBQ Joint.

Famous Daves.. BBQ Restaurant.

Lockharts, franklins, etc.. BBQ Joint.

the restaurant serves commercialized BBQ, cook in mass quantities taking shortcuts. gas ovens at 350, smoke boxes instead of wood, roasting it in the oven then coating it with BBQ sauce and calling it BBQ.

the real BBQ Joint... stays true to tradition for the most part and within reason.... wood fired or lump fired pits, slow cooked meats, or open flamed.

ambiance is second, but has no bearing on quality of BBQ... the old beat up screen doored shack with food server on butcher paper gives a different expectation than walking thru the fancy entrance of outback and daves... but that first impression can be crushed when walking into the caverns of kreuz, or the more traditional bbq joints with a big footprint. mistakenly, I would be more inclined to go to the little shack over the big restaurant, but that mentality may have me missing something great like lockharts to kreuz.. so i go on reputation and word of mouth.

BBQchef33 said:

.. so i go on reputation and word of mouth.

Click to expand...

Which is why I said the food is fundamentally what matters...that's why there IS word of mouth and reputation.

Actually, I think we both said the same thing, just differently. Especially considering the OP's audience here.


And I sooooooooo wanted to say "Wherever BBQ Bubba is cooking". :grin:

I agree with CD on the brisket.

I've been to some of the big name BBQ joint's in Nashville, and was let down when I tasted smoke not meat. Now there were street vendors that had some seriously great food!

To me the smaller places that are off the beaten track, the word of mouth places, have the best Q.
They're comfortable to sit around in and the food tastes like food with a smokey flavor.

As to how it's done, in my experience, the wood fired pits bring you the best tasting Q

As much as I love brisket, I cannot use that as a determining factor as that would eliminate an entire swath of BBQ. There is one region in particular in which BBQ brisket is an oxymoron.

So, for me,

1. History -- I'm a sucker for a historical venue where the old techniques have somehow survived. Even if the place is no longer tip-top, or the food is subpar, there is some reason for its existence. Charles Vergos' Rendezvous comes to mind. Heck, the food is REALLY subpar. I'm still glad I went and experienced the place.

2. A nice atmosphere -- this isn't critical all the time, but if I'm taking some people with me, especially for a business-type meeting, it is better to have some comfort to have some conversation. The Pit comes to mind in Raleigh. The food isn't great, but the place is comfortable, in a somewhat historic location AND they have some super-great beer and wine on the menu. I would not feel bad about taking anyone there.

3. Something a bit unique -- When I've had as much BBQ as I am, I really appreciate a surprise, a different sauce, or unique flavors. The BBQ Exchange near Charlottesville Va, and BT's Smokehouse in Sturbridge Mass, both shocked me with their unique flavors and well-cooked food. Their food remains in my memory.

4. Something local -- This goes without saying. One thing special about the Carolinas is the sides and the hush puppies.

5. Entertainment -- Some of my best times are at the Q-Shack in Durham where they have live Blue Grass on Wednesday night. I also thoroughly enjoy Blues night at the Blue Note in Durham. The food is Texas-style at Q-Shack and the brisket is top-notch, but the blue-grass music is 100% North Carolina.

6. Food? -- yeah, food is in there somewhere, as it's what makes me come back, especially the brisket.

MilitantSquatter said:

There are some of us here who like keeping up with the BBQ joint, news, happenings, history etc... I

thought there may be some interest in sharing what makes a BBQ joint highly rated in your opinion...

is it the quality of the barbecue itself ?

Click to expand...

I'd say that would be the most important but not the only criteria. Sides and/or dessert help a lot as well, like the blue cheese dip at Ridgewood BBQ in Bluff City, TN or the free velvet cake at Leo's in OK City.

the location ? the pitmaster? the history ? Does a great atompshere make up for shortcomings in the barbecue ? Do you/would you like great BBQ from a more upscale BBQ restaurant ?

Click to expand...

I don't know if a great atmosphere makes up for shortcomings, but it probably keeps me from writing a place off right away. A great atmosphere adds a lot to the experience. I would rather run down to Bludso's in Compton (basically a takeout window, but served by a sweetheart with a big smile) than eat at the one in Hollywood (more modern decor and more like a regular resaurant). I'll probably eat more at the one in Hollywood since it's closer, but I have a more positive association with the other one.

Can a great BBQ joint be gas assisted or wood/coals only ?

Click to expand...

I would say wood/coals only, but I could see that it would be possible for me to not be able to pick one from the other in a blind taste test, depending on who's cooking.

Does waiting on a long line mean it's great ? Are BBQ trailers/food trucks a passing fad ?

Click to expand...

Waiting in a long line means it's great to somebody, or else there wouldn't be a line. As to trailers/trucks - I've tried a lot of BBQ trucks out here and they have all sucked. There are a couple that I am shocked are still in business. The only good BBQ I've had off a trailer type deal is Big Mista's, and I'm not just saying it because I think he's a cool dude. His food is really great, and there's a good reason he is one of the giants of SoCal BBQ. His is the only mobile BBQ operation that I've had that's good - it leaves everything else I've tried in the dust by far. I haven't tried C Rocke's truck yet - I hope he comes up this way sometime. I really look forward to Neil opening his restaurant and I hope it's wildly successful. Great food, great people - it's all there.

Anyway, I don't know if the BBQ truck thing is a fad - it'll probably always be here to stay, as there's a demand for it, but I think the amount of food trucks in general outweigh the demand for them and there will be fewer trucks of any kind at some point in the next few years.

Which BBQ joint do you believe is the best representation of what a great BBQ joint should be and why ?

Click to expand...

My favorite BBQ joint experience by far was Craig's BBQ in Devall Bluff Arkansas. We pulled up to it and my son said "this is a restaurant?" :laugh: Farking great food, really sweet folks, cheap prices, and a little bit unlike what I'm used to. The sauce was tangy, a little vinegary - I'm not sure how to describe it. I don't think any tomatoes were harmed in the process. The meat was all very tender - we had full spares and pulled pork and sausage. I used to love going to Sam's BBQ in Austin in the 80's. Hard to say if it was actually good - I thought it was great, but then again I was drunk and stoned every time I went there - or anywhere else for that matter. :tsk: Again - run down joint, really nice folks, tender meat.

I hope to go visit my sister soon in Austin and hit Franklin's and do the Lockhart run. She did it a couple weeks ago and it blew her mind.

To me, it is the overall package. Food alone does not make a great BBQ eatery.
I want it to smell like BBQ when I walk in.
I want some ambiance. This can be as simple as a great Pitmaster willing to show us around.
I want a good beer and I want good service. If I have to wait 2 hours for the food.....skip it!
Sides are very important.
BBQ at a high end restaurant had better be pretty creative with tastes that awe me because I know the price is going to hurt. Also, it is fun to try 'Q from high end chefs trying to take it to the next level.
The people you are with can really add to the experience, both good and bad.

So, I've had OK food in great atmospheres with great people and enjoyed it tremendously. I've had fairly bad food in historical spots with some great people and will never go back.

Food is first. I don't go to a lot of restaurants because most everything tastes the same at ALL of them, so if I am going to go to a BBQ joint it had better live up to my expectations of quality Q. If they can do the trinity, I am OK. Good turkey is a plus (or GREAT turkey in the case if Stanley's in Tyler), because the wife and kids like it.

The people at the BBQ joint are second in importance. You are not doing me a favor by serving me food. Get over yourself! That is one of the reasons I tend to steer clear of Pecan Lodge. Their disregard for the customer by intentionally under-producing to drive up demand will (hopefully) catch up to them, and the regular guy at the counter is an absolute A$$hole! Hutchins on the other hand (although a TX top 50) does not get nearly the acclaim but they make me feel like family when I go there. Tim (the owner) and all of the staff are the best.

martyleach said:

To me, it is the overall package. Food alone does not make a great BBQ eatery.
I want it to smell like BBQ when I walk in.
I want some ambiance. This can be as simple as a great Pitmaster willing to show us around.
I want a good beer and I want good service. If I have to wait 2 hours for the food.....skip it!
Sides are very important.
BBQ at a high end restaurant had better be pretty creative with tastes that awe me because I know the price is going to hurt. Also, it is fun to try 'Q from high end chefs trying to take it to the next level.
The people you are with can really add to the experience, both good and bad.

So, I've had OK food in great atmospheres with great people and enjoyed it tremendously. I've had fairly bad food in historical spots with some great people and will never go back.

Click to expand...

I'm with Marty. :thumb:

LGood read thanks all.

MilitantSquatter said:

I went to the famed Lexington Barbecue in Lexington, NC a few weeks back (along w/ Cook's BBQ in Lexington)... While I enjoyed the food for what it is supposed to be (not what I thought it should be), I left with the general impression of cafeteria food... Also, their was not much special sitting in the place. Could have been any other local restaurant if the menu was different. Not bad, but nothing that I would feel like I'd want to go back very soon.

Click to expand...

+1. Not to pick on Lexington specifically as this is certainly not the first time this has happened, but I couldn't believe how plain-tasting (read no smoke oven-cooked) the 'que was compared to my expectations. Makes me hesitant about going too far out of my way to visit a supposedly "great" BBQ joint ever again. :tsk:

Truthfully I don't go to BBQ joints or restaurants very often only maybe twice my entire life. I live up North and there are no good BBQ places around. I prefer my BBQ and I don't mean to toot my own horn. I just think my BBQ is better. If I had to pick though the best BBQ comes from Arby's up by me and I am not kidding their brisket sandwich is delicious and the best I have had from any restaurant. I prefer my brisket but like I said there is not much to choose from around me. I really need to head south and try some real BBQ joints. I prefer the cold though so I don't ever head south.

MilitantSquatter said:

great discussion...

Part of my intent was what I have noticed now living in NC compared to what I have seen in Northeast and on my two bbq roadtrips to Texas and some others in other areas.

Yes, I agree food quality goes a long way... however, I think there is something to be said for uniqueness, history etc.

As example, now living in NC, I have been exploring some of the more well known BBQ joints as time allows...

I went to the famed Lexington Barbecue in Lexington, NC a few weeks back (along w/ Cook's BBQ in Lexington)... While I enjoyed the food for what it is supposed to be (not what I thought it should be), I left with the general impression of cafeteria food... Also, their was not much special sitting in the place. Could have been any other local restaurant if the menu was different. Not bad, but nothing that I would feel like I'd want to go back very soon. I was also surprised to learn how few places in NC are left that actually only cook with wood/coals.

Now, I compare that to my visits to Central Texas and going to Louie Mueller's, Smitty's, Black's, Snow's, Kreuz, City Market in Luling etc. and I just found those places to be a lot more "special"..even if some of the food was not as great as all the hype. The kind of places I'd want to visit several more times to fully assess. And there are more in Texas I'd like to try that I never have.

NY had little to be desired more often than not but there has been a change there with over the last decade... A first wave elevated it and now quite a few up and comers trying to replicate the Franklin BBQ fame by serving high quality Central Texas type food in a bit more upscale atmosphere... often in the locations that cater to the "foodies" and hipsters in downtown Brooklyn and Manhattan. Some of the quality here looks totally outstanding..at the same time these guys are trying to be something else.

Click to expand...

Your post made me think about the feel of a place. I think that in Texas I almost take the authenticity of places for granted so I focus on other things. There are a few that are lacking in vibe (again... Pecan Lodge), but most of the great TX BBQ joints ooze history.

Having eaten at over 430 Q-joints and barbecue restaurants in the USA, including over 375 in North Carolina, I must state that IMHO the quality and flavor of the meat is the overwhelming factor in what makes a good Q-joint great.
I enjoy fancy atmosphere (i.e., The Pit in Raleigh) with white linen tablecloths and napkins, and an extensive wine list, but that doesn't make it a great Q-joint.
I enjoy history and a long lineage of pitmasters (i.e., Lexington #1 in Lexington, NC; Arthur Bryants in KC; Sonny Bryants in Dallas; etc.), but history doesn't make it a great Q-joint.
I DON'T care what the meat is cooked on or over (wood coals, charcoal, electric, gas, etc.) as long as the meat is delicious.

IMHO, the best overall Q-joint that I've been to is "The Memphis Barbecue Company" in Fayetteville, NC (one of Melissa Cookston's restaurants). ALL of the meats were great and all the other criteria of what makes a good Q-joint great in this thread were met as well.
Another favorite is "Smokin' Guns BBQ" in KC. Especially their burnt ends!
One more favorite is "OinkAdoodleMoo Smoking BBQ" in Kettering, Ohio.
Finally, my list of favorites wouldn't be complete without mentioning "Q Barbecue" in Midlothian, VA (one of Tuffy Stone's restaurants).
Honorable mention goes to "Big Racks BBQ and Sports Grill" in Grapevine, TX (the most tender and flavorful piece of pork that I've ever put in my mouth at a restaurant!). Not only is the barbecue and other food good, but the scenery is pretty decent too!

Just my $0.02.

BBQchef33 said:

i see where vinnys going with this.

to me, I break them in 2 catagories..

BBQ Restaurant, and BBQ Joint.

Famous Daves.. BBQ Restaurant.

Lockharts, franklins, etc.. BBQ Joint.

Click to expand...

I like this way of thinking. Each has their strengths, and there are good and bad of each type.

One of my favorite local BBQ joints is a Texas style place where they cut the meat and lay it on butcher paper, hand you a stack of white bread and tell you where the sauce is "in case you want to ruin it."

My favorite BBQ restaurant on the other hand, everything comes pretty well sauced and probably over-tender -- I love it all the same.

I'll give any BBQ restaurant or BBQ joint a try however there is one thing I will not abide by and that is if I walk into a "BBQ" place and not smell smoke I turn around and exit as fast as I can.

In the end, greatness is simply, do I want to come back. Does the food sit in my memory as something that I want to experience again and again. This is actually how I measure most restaurants. A place can be a total dive, it can be a cart or truck, if I want to go back right away, then it is great in that context.

To be truly great, I suppose it has to be that way over and over, for a lot of people, over many years. That standard gets a little hazy, for instance, out here, Everett & Jones is defined as great for many, and had been so for over 40 years. I don't much care for it anymore, they slipped IMO. Yet, aren't they great, in that one family has run one business since the late 1950's, doing one thing well?