Did I cheat?

It is my understanding of that rule that it would be a violation.

Maybe? It seems like I can remember that being addressed by the BoD several years ago, but I'm not certain.

Contest site is your designated spot only.

The rules apply to the 4 competition meats only. Peoples Choice is an ancillary category. Now if it's stated that the Peoples Choice follows KCBS rules then you did cheat in peoples choice and should have been disqualified for people choice only.

Had I been in your position I would have either borrowed a cooler or I would have declined to participate in peoples choice. Preception not the letter of the law is usually what's discussed and causes problems.

^ ^ ^
I agree with what Ford says.

I would say it depends on the Reps interpretation which is a dangerous game to play.

Not the same situation but I know two teams that joined forces at a contest and ended up qualifying for the Royal Invitational. They were cooking the Royal open separately so they both had their own site. For the Invite one team decided to cook the brisket on their site while the other 3 meats were cooked on the other teams site(doesn't seem like a big deal to me). Well someone brought this to the reps attention and in the morning the rep said if they turned in that brisket it would be DQ'd (huh ?). Well the team started a new brisket and tried to get it done in the time allotted so there was no DQ.

Anyway the morel of the story is the Rep has final say so if I were you I wouldn't leave it in their hands. Next time borrow a cooler or buy one of those disposable ones at a gas station and you won't have to worry.

Full Draw BBQ said:

It is my understanding of that rule that it would be a violation.

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Why??? the meat did not leave the contest site and he did not share a cooking device and did not share cooking space. I guess like you said it is how you interpret the rules.

Reading through the rules, it's easy to see that they were designed to keep teams' processes separate. Regardless of the culture of sharing and helping out that the good people of BBQ have cultivated, the intent with regards to the competition itself is clear.

It's just not the Board's job to think of every possible way that teams might share, and make microrules thereto. The onus is on the cook to read the rules, understand their intent (asking reps for clarification if necessary), and then abide by the rules whether they were stated in microdetail or not.

While "cheating" is intended to gain unfair advantage, I can't see that coolering did anything more than you would have done in your own space. But even for PC, that's wandering in to a gray area, and that's where things get twisted. For a competition meat, you know you would have never considered it.

Was the PC meat inspected by the contest rep or designee as if it was KCBS product? Was the PC meat cooked in the same smoker as your contest meat and did the possibility exist for you switch which product you turned in to the judges? That might make a difference to a rep.

Benny

I would think the requirement for food safety would far outweigh the other rules and could be successfully argued and defended. I would have consulted with the rep and stated in order to maintain food safe conditions as required by rule and, more important, the safety of the judges, I would be using a shared cooler space with Joe Blow. At some point common sense is better than micro managed rules. The rules allow for some leeway and are not meant to be all things to all people. They are meant as a guideline and to "Keep Honest People Honest!" imho

My understanding is that the meat, cookers, everything must stay within your designated cooking space. Like Ford and others said, it's a dangerous game to play when you leave it to a rep to decide what they "think" the rules say. With that being said, you are WAY ahead of the game if you are even aware of such an instance. As a contest newbie I screwed up much more glaring rules than this!!!!!

If helping someone out to keep meat below safe temp is cheating, they can call me a cheater anyday if I run out of room or they get food poisoning. Their choice!

Jacked UP BBQ said:

If helping someone out to keep meat below safe temp is cheating, they can call me a cheater anyday if I run out of room or they get food poisoning. Their choice!

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As long as you put $1 bills in the turn in container.............:whoo::whoo::whoo:

That reminds me, Roc City is coming up!

Honestly, if helping out a Brother/Friend/Competitor is cheating, then almost all of us are cheaters.

Big Ugly's BBQ said:

As long as you put $1 bills in the turn in container.............:whoo::whoo::whoo:

That reminds me, Roc City is coming up!

Honestly, if helping out a Brother/Friend/Competitor is cheating, then almost all of us are cheaters.

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HMMMMMMMMMMM Depending on the reps I might do it again.

Smoke'n Ice said:

I would think the requirement for food safety would far outweigh the other rules and could be successfully argued and defended. I would have consulted with the rep and stated in order to maintain food safe conditions as required by rule and, more important, the safety of the judges, I would be using a shared cooler space with Joe Blow. At some point common sense is better than micro managed rules. The rules allow for some leeway and are not meant to be all things to all people. They are meant as a guideline and to "Keep Honest People Honest!" imho

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Food safety trumps rules? How about go down the road to walmart and buy a $5 cooler and a bag of ice to keep them safe. That's assuming you were not prepared to keep the meat cold. People make mistakes in prep for a contest but there are lots of alternatives that let them live within the rules. And as I said earlier it would have been easy to say I forgot and I don't have any way to keep the meat cold for peoples choice so I can't participate.

Rules are rules and the Rep advisories tell Reps how to handle rule questions. There are a lot of them available to read on the KCBS website.

I am going to have to disagree here and say no violation occurred. I agree that the BOD can't conceive every possible situation, but as I read the rules, I believe the intention was to prevent a "team" from breaking up into "multiple teams", cook all the meat on one cooker, prep all the boxes together and turning in multiple entries into the same contest, which would give the team an advantage or from taking the meat back home or to their restaurant to enhance it at home or to do the old switch-er-roo.

I see no advantage gained by storing your meat in another cooler. Teams loan equipment and other essentials when something is forgotten at home or breaks at the contest all the time. Are they breaking the rules?

Have you ever seen multiple teams hooked up to the same generator and not where the contest provided power? I've seen plenty of teams hook into another teams generator. Are they cheating?

Here is an example which most of us probably watched and I never saw a post about it being cheating. In the first season of BBQ Pitmasters, one of the later episodes was the Dover, DE contest I believe. Gary Notley was cooking on his own and during the contest, he ran over and borrowed an electric spice or coffee grinder from Harry Soo. It was caught on TV, viewed by thousands of people and I never heard anything about it being cheating. Now I ask you, if borrowing and using equipment from another site, during a contest, to enhance your turn-in product is not cheating, how on earth can storing your meat in another cooler be cheating. For the record, I didn't see anyting wrong with what Gary or Harry did in the situation.

Unless the act itself gains an advantage or it is explicity listed in the rules, it isn't cheating in my book.

in this instance cheating? no.
breaking the rules? maybe.

but, let's say the competitor selected, purchased, and brought a pork butt to the comp. that's HIS comp butt.

let's then say, the organizer gave the teams pork butts for PC.

now, the competitor was given a pork butt to hold in his cooler, and it looked better than the one he selected and purchased. he then uses that one as his COMP butt and gives the one he selected to the person he was holding it for.

and the lender may have no idea this happened.

this would be cheating.

i'm in NO WAY saying this happened, but it could, and therefor the rules.

selecting good meat is part and parcel to competing.

borrowing equipment is all good, but very different than mixing meat:roll:for lack of a better word.

At a recent contest, a cook had a problem with his cooker. Several of use assisted him by loaning him parts, tools and high level supervision. I later used the same tool to do something on my cooker. I guess based on some interpertations, I and several nationally recognized teams cheated and should have been DQ'ed because the team requiring assistance did not bring the tools, nor choose to go buy them, needed to be sucessful and or safe.

I don't believe in this interpetation and will continue to cheat in this manner and, if I am DQ'ed, the defecation and the rotating oscillator will meet and we'll all be the poorer for it.

This is still a gentlemans sport and I prefer to beat your best and will assist you to turn out your best product. I do believe that that is what mentoring is all about and that is encourged at each and every contest by the reps.
Off soap box and thank you.

absolutely! it is why we are brethren and love competing.

but some are not.

pssst. SRF pork collar.:behindsofa:..

Smoke'n Ice said:

At a recent contest, a cook had a problem with his cooker. Several of use assisted him by loaning him parts, tools and high level supervision. I later used the same tool to do something on my cooker. I guess based on some interpertations, I and several nationally recognized teams cheated and should have been DQ'ed because the team requiring assistance did not bring the tools, nor choose to go buy them, needed to be sucessful and or safe.

I don't believe in this interpetation and will continue to cheat in this manner and, if I am DQ'ed, the defecation and the rotating oscillator will meet and we'll all be the poorer for it.

This is still a gentlemans sport and I prefer to beat your best and will assist you to turn out your best product. I do believe that that is what mentoring is all about and that is encourged at each and every contest by the reps.
Off soap box and thank you.

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