Brisket cooked like Tri-Tip

Well, after landarc and SteveT cooked Tri-Tip like Brisket with good results, this left me with a lot of questions about the accuracy of the beliefs of how tender/leaner cuts should be cooked versus tougher/fattier cuts.

One of those questions was whether or not Brisket could be cooked like Tri-Tip, in other words, cooked to a maximum of a rare or medium-rare doneness and still have an edible product.

All of my experience and knowledge up to this point tells me this is a bad idea and I will wind up with tough, dry, impossible to chew meat.

Because I am short for time, I will post my description of the cooking process, followed by the pics, then my review. I will add further descriptions as needed based on any questions.

When landarc cooked his Tri-Tip like a Brisket, he did it like he was doing a competition brisket, using injections, and techniques he knew worked best for brisket. When cooking Tri-Tip, it is much simpler, and there are fewer tricks for me to choose from to ensure I get a tender, juicy product.

Really, the only knowledge I have that I used to ensure a tender, juicy product was picking the most flexible flat I could find, that also had a reasonably thick piece of meat under the fat cap. I found a very flexible one, quite limp even, that was a Choice Angus flat from Sams.

I trimmed the flat of most visible fat (like I would a Tri-Tip or other roast that I would cook to 125-130 degrees), and then I hit it with some Plowboy's Bovine Bold rub. I let the rub set in while the meat warmed up, and I got the grill going.

I cooked it using the 2-zone method in my Weber Kettle, starting it indirect, and putting on a reverse sear once the meat hit 118 degrees internal (as read with my Thermapen).

I seared it for about a minute each side, and the finish temp was 125 degrees internal (as read with my Thermapen).

I let it rest for about 15 minutes before slicing. It looked juicy, and had some juices accumulating under the meat.

The meat was medium rare, and had a warm red center. The pics don't do the meat complete justice, it was a darker red than shown in the pics, but you can still see what is important to see about the end product.







































What did I think?

I thought it was really good!:hungry:

It was very juicy, as you can see from the pics.

It was also tender. Not as tender as other roasts you can get for a similar price, but this was nothing remotely like "eating a boot", which is what I expected.

I asked my 16 year old to try some, not telling him what it was. When I asked him if it was juicy, he said, "Yes". When I asked him if it was tough, he also said "Yes", but this is the kid that thinks all steaks except Filets are tough. Now, interestingly enough, I also made chicken for dinner the same way this 16 year old RAVED about on Friday. Guess what he ate? He ate this BRISKET!:laugh: He didn't even touch the chicken. He stuffed himself with the brisket, and loved it. He said he enjoyed it. So clearly it is not that tough.

Would I serve this to others? Yes. But I would sooner cook a different roast like a Sirloin Tip that is a bit more tender, and cheaper than a Brisket Flat (at least it is here).

Would I make it again? Probably not. I prefer brisket cooked like brisket. This tasted very beefy, and was really good, but I prefer the flavor of brisket prepared the way I am used to over this. If I want a beefy roast like this, there are other options out there as good, or even better.

So there you have it. You can indeed cook brisket like tri-tip and get a very good product that is tender, juicy, and very flavorful. Not to mention, quite edible, seeing as more brisket was eaten at dinner than some excellent chicken I had prepared as a backup just in case.

My name is Chris Baker and I approve this message.

landarc said:

Well, dang skippy that sure looks good. I kinda figured it would look good, but, I am surprised it is tender.

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I was equally surprised.

There are other cuts that you can roast like this that are more tender and at a better price point.

All that said however, this was not too tough to eat. For a medium-rare roast, I would say it was on the tough end of the spectrum, but that did not remotely mean it was too tough to eat...at all.

colonel00 said:

When I read this a thought popped into my head. Yes, you can cook it like a steak but it is not necessarily presented like a steak. I wonder how much has to do with slicing it thin across the grain. I would also wonder if you took a flat and cut it into steak sized portions, cooked it as above and then ate it like an actual steak, if it would still have the same results. If you cut a wedge off of the flat steak like you would with a regular steak, would you be chewing forever?

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I sliced it thin across the grain to give it the best chance of being successful. It worked as far as I can tell.

I did take both the end after slicing (larger than the size of a standard chunk you get served as a "sirloin tip" from a plate of sirloin tips at a restaurant), along with a thick slice and tried them both. Both were also edible. A bit more chewy of course because they were thicker chunks, but still able to chew them.

The end piece had a bit of gristle or some sort of tough stuff, but all the meat around that little bit was as edible as everything else.

I'm just surprised I could chew it. I'm surprised more brisket was eaten than that farking chicken (the chicken was awesome). I think I had so much because I just couldn't believe it was edible, and kept having to prove it to myself again.

If anyone else wants to try, please do. I would love to hear a second opinion. Just don't expect it to be as tender as most steaks. It is tougher. But it is not too tough, that's what I'm trying to say.:thumb:

You can get beefier and more tender roasts for less. The Sirloin Tip Roast at Sams was 2.78/lb tonight, compared to the Brisket Flat at 3.96/lb. I would go with the Sirloin Tip roast over the flat any day.

It can be done though. That does not mean it is ideal. I think landarc had the same feelings about his tri-tip cooked like a brisket. It could be done, and was good, but not ideal (unless I misunderstood him). Same here.

Wampus said:

:shock:

Alright.....this blows me away. I mean, as I understand it, way back when, BBQ was basically invented by folks taking the less desirable cuts of meat that noone else wanted and slow cooked them to make them not only edible but good.

But THIS suggests that a brisket flat (one of the supposed "undesirable cuts") could be cooked like a farkin steak and be quite enjoyable!!!

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I think this confirms brisket as a less desirable cut for roasts. It is good, don't get me wrong, but I could have used many different roast cuts and had better.

For this cut, having tried it both ways, I believe the best way to serve it is the way we are all familiar with, BBQ BRISKET!:becky:

That does not mean you can not make a really good, if not great roast out of one however. Considering how good the chicken was, I guess this was towards the great end of the spectrum. But I found a very tender flexible flat. It's possible that a less flexible flat might have less desirable results.

At this point, I just don't farking know any more what to say about what makes meat tender and juicy. I know this was juicy, and far more tender than expected. Since both of my boys ate the brisket over the chicken, it was obviously not "flawed" in the tenderness department.

So the next time someone asks why the meat gets tender, I guess I just don't know.:tsk:

landarc said:

evaporation?

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:laugh:ound:

I'm definitely more willing to believe that is the source of the stall now.

Apparently I've been an asshat in denial for a long time now.

OK, seriously though, at this point, here's what I'm thinking (not that I am qualified to think at all).

It seems that meat (possibly any cut) has (at least) two acceptable ranges of doneness for safe human consumption (I am not counting poultry in this, although it might fit if we had better poultry preparation).

The first is the rare to well done range, with well done being a very hard to reach target with success in general.

After that point, the proteins in the meat have basically coiled together and seized into a tough mass, and have squeezed a lot of juice out of the meat. This would be the point at which a brisket would be "tough as a boot". It was more tender before it got to this point, and won't be tender again until after more cooking.

Then, at a later point in the cook, the meat starts to break down again and get more tender, happening at temps roughly between 185 and 210.

I am sure that all of the food scientists out there have empirical evidence to show that it is indeed collagen breaking down into gelatin that causes this, and I doubt these experiments truly dismiss that as a possibility. This might just show that the effect is not as much as I (and possibly others) previously thought is all.

Yes, it gets more tender, but frankly, at the rare to well done phase it was also somewhat tender, just not AS tender. I suppose that gelatin also allows us in some way to get a juicier sensation on our tongues out of the meat than the alternative when that liquid might be tied up in the meat somehow.

Just my rambling thoughts at the moment.

Much like how landarc said he would like to tie up a pork loin inside of a butterflied boston butt, I too have some curious things I now want to try.

For example, since all meat should have connective tissues, perhaps something like a large steak or small beef roast from a very tender part of the animal will break down and get tender, juicy and delicious.

What piece I might choose to cook this way remains to be seen. Actually, it remains to be seen if I will do it at all. But I am so curious, it might be more surprising if I don't do it.

I have some less than desirable KC Strip Steaks in my freezer that I got on clearance (they are lacking in flavor). I usually chop them up for burger, but might sacrifice one or two for this.