Reason for lowball scores - chicken

Ford

Ford

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There's been a lot of talk about lowball scores by a judge since the new score sheets. There is some justification for a judge just scoring everything low. But there's lots of reasons for a judge to get a different experience. I'll post this for each of the 4 meats.

Just post 1 reason for taste and/or tenderness.

Small pocket of fat not properly trimmed out and judge bites just that spot. That can be close to a spit experience.
 
How does "overly sauced" as a description effect taste and tenderness? I read that as appearance.

I'm not trying to get on anybody, but that is not a descriptive reason...
Now if, as a judge, you said..."the sauce in places was thicker than others, detracting from the overall taste of the meat"
 
TooSaucedToPork said:
How does "overly sauced" as a description effect taste and tenderness? I read that as appearance.

I'm not trying to get on anybody, but that is not a descriptive reason...
Now if, as a judge, you said..."the sauce in places was thicker than others, detracting from the overall taste of the meat"
Click to expand...

Over-sauced could also mean that the flavor of the sauce completely drowned out the flavor of the meat. That would be Taste category.
 
For tenderness - overcooked. Chicken is mushy.
 
bbq.tom said:
Over-sauced could also mean that the flavor of the sauce completely drowned out the flavor of the meat. That would be Taste category.
Click to expand...

Correct...which is what I said when I spelled it out and didn't make it a generalized term.

If I, as a cook, got a comment card that simply states "over sauced" what does that mean...

Did I put too much sauced on detracting from appearance?
Did the Taste of my sauce drown out the meat?
Did the sauced clumping up cause a taste problem?

Descriptive terms clearly outlining the problem are needed. If judges want better BBQ, they need to communicate problems to us clearly, in the most descriptive terms possible...

Understanding is all about communication
 
TooSaucedToPork said:
Correct...which is what I said when I spelled it out and didn't make it a generalized term.

If I, as a cook, got a comment card that simply states "over sauced" what does that mean...

Did I put too much sauced on detracting from appearance?
Did the Taste of my sauce drown out the meat?
Did the sauced clumping up cause a taste problem?

Descriptive terms clearly outlining the problem are needed. If judges want better BBQ, they need to communicate problems to us clearly, in the most descriptive terms possible...

Understanding is all about communication
Click to expand...

I beleive the new comment cards have "over sauced" only as a box in the Appearance category. It can be written in for other purposes, but like you stated, I hope that a more descriptive term would be used.


At some point in the future, I would hope that KCBS will adopt a "comment required" on EVERY score. That would not only improve judges (having to be accountable for each score with a reason) as well as improve cooks (knowing exactly why each judge gave each score). It would take a bit longer, but would weed out the judges that are just there for fun (read - NOT serious), and I'm sure cook teams wouldn't mind 1 hour between turn-ins. Also, BAN coolers!
 
bbq.tom said:
Also, BAN coolers!
Click to expand...

This will go a long way weeding out "those who are there to get fed" from those of us that take it seriously. I heard one husband and wife duo (judging at different tables) say to each other after judging "We are going to eat good this weekend!" I've judged next to the guy twice now, and I can almost guarantee that his scores are dropped every single time. No. More. Leftovers. Period.
 
ITBFQ said:
This will go a long way weeding out "those who are there to get fed" from those of us that take it seriously. I heard one husband and wife duo (judging at different tables) say to each other after judging "We are going to eat good this weekend!" I've judged next to the guy twice now, and I can almost guarantee that his scores are dropped every single time. No. More. Leftovers. Period.
Click to expand...

I hate to hijack this thread onto coolers, but you are right, there is just something about watching a judge be more interested in putting the leftovers from their judging plate into a cooler than concentrating on giving a good score. I'm not saying that every judge that packs a cooler isn't in it for the right reason, but everyone knows that it only takes a couple to ruin it for the rest of us. I used to be a "take home the leftovers" judge, but once I knew that cooks looked at cooler judges as "only in it to get fed and take food home", I changed and haven't taken anything home in a couple years. Banning coolers would go a long way to closing the chasm between cooks and judges. IMHO
 
bbq.tom said:
I hate to hijack this thread onto coolers, but you are right, there is just something about watching a judge be more interested in putting the leftovers from their judging plate into a cooler than concentrating on giving a good score. I'm not saying that every judge that packs a cooler isn't in it for the right reason, but everyone knows that it only takes a couple to ruin it for the rest of us. I used to be a "take home the leftovers" judge, but once I knew that cooks looked at cooler judges as "only in it to get fed and take food home", I changed and haven't taken anything home in a couple years. Banning coolers would go a long way to closing the chasm between cooks and judges. IMHO
Click to expand...

I hate to be hijack this thread as well, but as a new competitor (I'm getting ready to enter my 3rd comp next week), could you explain this "cooler" thing? Are you saying that a judge take his/her bite of the meat and puts the rest in a cooler to take home? I've never paid attention to the judges tent. Anything beyond where I turn in my box is something I never paid any mind to, but you got me curious about this....thanks!
 
BaggerBill said:
I hate to be hijack this thread as well, but as a new competitor (I'm getting ready to enter my 3rd comp next week), could you explain this "cooler" thing? Are you saying that a judge take his/her bite of the meat and puts the rest in a cooler to take home? I've never paid attention to the judges tent. Anything beyond where I turn in my box is something I never paid any mind to, but you got me curious about this....thanks!
Click to expand...

Yes, judges are often allowed to take home the samples on their plate after judging. Not always, but often. The hope is that ALL judges take at least one good sized bite and you will find that many judges take at least two bites of each entry to fairly judge the meat. This topic has been discussed MANY times on this forum.
 
BMerrill said:
Ban coolers in the judges area.
Have each team make a goody bag for a judge.
After judging, the judge pulls a team name from the hat and visits the team where his goody bag is waiting.
Click to expand...

Hey Billy? with Holy Smoke BBQ team? I was the nuisance in Salisbury for you and Gordon, both Friday evening and Saturday after judging!

Anyway, I totally agree that this would be a great idea for not only keeping the judges from worrying about the meat on their plate going in a cooler, but would also get judges and teams together to hopefully talk and build a better relationship.
 
bbq.tom said:
I beleive the new comment cards have "over sauced" only as a box in the Appearance category. It can be written in for other purposes, but like you stated, I hope that a more descriptive term would be used.


At some point in the future, I would hope that KCBS will adopt a "comment required" on EVERY score. That would not only improve judges (having to be accountable for each score with a reason) as well as improve cooks (knowing exactly why each judge gave each score). It would take a bit longer, but would weed out the judges that are just there for fun (read - NOT serious), and I'm sure cook teams wouldn't mind 1 hour between turn-ins. Also, BAN coolers!
Click to expand...

You have to understand that there are current and past members of the board who have fought the use of comment cards forever. They don't want them because it makes the rep work a little harder correllating and distributing them. If we, as cooks, want comment cards on all entries, we will have to pay more because of the need of a third rep. :icon_smile_tongue:
 
too fatty, rubbery skin - yes it's 2 but rather a single post than 2 posts
 
y'all are straying too far from FORD's topic.

he's not offering reasons your BBQ was scored low. he's offering and looking for discussion on what could legitimately cause ONE low score out of the six judges.
 
BMerrill said:
Ban coolers in the judges area.
Have each team make a goody bag for a judge.
After judging, the judge pulls a team name from the hat and visits the team where his goody bag is waiting.
Click to expand...

That horse has been beaten to death. Kcbs does not have the ability to enforce this. They can only suggest to the organizers that they ban coolers. Same with celebrity judges.
 
boogiesnap said:
y'all are straying too far from FORD's topic.

he's not offering reasons your BBQ was scored low. he's offering and looking for discussion on what could legitimately cause ONE low score out of the six judges.
Click to expand...

Well I agree with you but in the case of chicken one piece could have been oversalted. Especially if they apply each spice directly without first blending. Same with poor skin trimming leaving fat. That's why I try all the pieces not turned in for bite. Don't have to set it can spit as I'm not a judge.
 
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