Judges: How do you pick your samples?

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dmprantz

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Question for KCBS judges. When a box with meat in it is presented to you, how do you pick which sample you are going to eat? What have you seen other judges do? Examples:

Ribs: Do you always pick from either end, or will you take a middle rib? Do you always pick from the top row, or will you pick from the bottom row, even if it currently has something else on top of it?

Chicken: Do you always take an outside piece, or will you take a piece which is currently surrounded by other pieces?

Pork: If there are slices or chunks in the box, will you always take an outside piece? If there is pulled, do you always get uncovered pulled, or do you dig underneeth other peices?

Brisket: Same question on burnt ends if there. Also, do you always take the "top" slice, or will you dig underneeth and take the bottom or a middle slice?

In general, do you try to get the piece that is most convenient, looks like it will taste the best, or do you try to find the worst piece in the box and judge that? I've heard of judges who do that with ribs in FBA.

Thanks,

dmp
 
Not a KCBS or FBA judge, but I am a Master judge in GBA. Personally, for ribs, I will take the best looking rib that I can take without touching any others in the box. Just being respectful of my fellow judges.

For pork, I will take a sample of each different "cut" in the box. If there is pulled, sliced money muscle & "tubes"; I will get a sample of each. I judge it as a sum of its parts not just on the best part or the worst part. This is what is taught in GBA judge training.

GBA doesn't do brisket, but I would treat it the same a pork. If there are burnt ends and slices, I will take both & judge it based on both. Chicken, I would do the same as with ribs.
 
Whatever is easiest to get out of the box. Whatever is on top, outside, or whatever. No reason to tear up a box to get something off the bottom or inside row. If there are different kinds; chopped, sliced, chunks, etc. then I will try to at least sample each type.
 
The only category I ever pick anything other than the easiest to grab is ribs, and only if all ribs are from the center except for a lone short end piece, and I avoid the poor little overcooked guy if possible.
 
Whatever is easiest to pick without screwing up the rest.

If more than one sample is presented (pulled pork, money muscle and tubes), I pick one of each and judge by the sum of them all. KCBS asks that judges take one piece of each pile.

Same with brisket and burnt ends in the same box. I have had chicken thighs and breast meat in the same box as well; pick one sample of each.

wallace
 
The only time I think it's appropriate to take anything other than the "next" sample from the box is when the cook has forced a choice, i.e. 3 drums and 3 thighs in a chicken box. In that scenario, I'll take the piece I personally prefer in order to give the cook the best possible score.

Other than that, I believe the random factor of selecting the next sample in the box is the most fair to both the cook and the other judges.

That's how I approach it anyway.
 
dmprantz said:
Question for KCBS judges. When a box with meat in it is presented to you, how do you pick which sample you are going to eat? What have you seen other judges do? Examples:

Ribs: Do you always pick from either end, or will you take a middle rib? Do you always pick from the top row, or will you pick from the bottom row, even if it currently has something else on top of it?

Chicken: Do you always take an outside piece, or will you take a piece which is currently surrounded by other pieces?

Pork: If there are slices or chunks in the box, will you always take an outside piece? If there is pulled, do you always get uncovered pulled, or do you dig underneeth other peices?

Brisket: Same question on burnt ends if there. Also, do you always take the "top" slice, or will you dig underneeth and take the bottom or a middle slice?

In general, do you try to get the piece that is most convenient, looks like it will taste the best, or do you try to find the worst piece in the box and judge that? I've heard of judges who do that with ribs in FBA.

Thanks,

dmp
Click to expand...

Chicken- I take the next piece in the box if I am not first, If I am first to sample I pick the piece I want and pass it on. If it is a choice between a Leg or a thigh, I usually pick a thigh.

Ribs- I take the next piece in the box if I am not first, If I am first to sample I pick the piece I want and pass it on.

Pork- I take the next piece in the box if I am not first, If I am first to sample I pick the piece I want and pass it on. I always take a sample of each presented. I am not a super fan of "Money Muscle" I prefer pulled with bark, BUT if MM is in there, I take a piece.

Brisket- I take the next piece in the box if I am not first, If I am first to sample I pick the piece I want and pass it on. I take a sample of each that is presented.
I figure that it should not matter, as everything in the box should be the same.
 
Depends on where I'm sitting and where the table captain started passing the box. Sometimes, like with brisket, I take the next piece that's available. With chicken, it's usually the piece that's left that's the least messy with sauce. Keeping the flavors of the sauces that correspond with each chicken sample to themselves(and sometimes ribs, but those haven't been as sauced as much in the past few years) can make things really tedious, but I don't want one sample that overpowers me to "bleed" into the next and confuse me. Lately I've seen this same kind of thing happen with some of the pork entries - they're getting to have an awful lot of sauce on them.

I like it when there's a choice for me, even if I'm the last judge. When I do table captain duty, I like it when there are some extra pieces in a box (or at least one extra for the TC) - I like being able to have an opinion to discuss with the table when that round is over...

Lynn H.
 
CivilWarBBQ said:
The only time I think it's appropriate to take anything other than the "next" sample from the box is when the cook has forced a choice, i.e. 3 drums and 3 thighs in a chicken box. In that scenario, I'll take the piece I personally prefer in order to give the cook the best possible score.
Click to expand...

I would imagine in that scenario that you'd score them down on presentation? I believe I would, but I'm just curious.
 
Outnumbered said:
I would imagine in that scenario that you'd score them down on presentation? I believe I would, but I'm just curious.
Click to expand...


No. Why would you automatically mark a box down on appearance just for having mixed chicken parts? As long as the meat looks inviting and the arrangement appealing, the type of chicken and quantity should have no bearing on the presentation score.
 
I pick what's next in the box trying only to touch the piece that I will be taking. As far as a mixed box, thighs/drummies, pulled pork/money muscle, I judge what's presented to me. I don't root through the box looking for my favorite cut of meat.
 
Outnumbered said:
I would imagine in that scenario that you'd score them down on presentation? I believe I would, but I'm just curious.
Click to expand...

I have been seeing quite a few folks lately writing/talking about "presentation". Even including a couple of articles in the Bull Sheet, but that is another story... :mmph:
Presentation is NOT a KCBS judging criteria and never has been. What is supposed to be judged is the appearance of the meat; not the green stuff, not the box, just the meat. Why are so many folks talking about how presentation is judged? Just judge the MEAT! It is a meat contest. If you want to consider presentation cook or judge in MIM/MBN contests.
rant over... :icon_blush:
 
CivilWarBBQ said:
No. Why would you automatically mark a box down on appearance just for having mixed chicken parts? As long as the meat looks inviting and the arrangement appealing, the type of chicken and quantity should have no bearing on the presentation score.
Click to expand...

et tu Gowan? Presentation, really? Looks like quite a few folks need to read the KCBS judging criteria; Appearance, Taste, Tenderness. Presentation is not there.
 
Thanks guys! Answers a lot of questions for me, but of course there's always a chance of getting a different kind of judge.

dmp
 
I always try to get to a judges table in time to get the corner spot, so depending on which way the captain passes I am either Judge #2 or (gasp!) Judge #5. Chicken I usually take whatever is close, unless they have sliced breast then I will try to get a piece from the middle if I can without disturbing the other samples. Ribs if I am second I will take one of the inside ribs if arranged that way. I try not to get one of the outside bones, I think it has a greater chance to dry out and cool off. With pork if it is all pulled or chunks I take what is easiest, with slices I will again take an inside slice. For brisket if i am second to take my sample it depends on what judge 1 took: if they took the first slice I will take the second, if they pulled a slice out of the middle I will get mine from the middle also. Again, I "usually" don't want to take the first slice or piece that has been exposed the most, I think it has a greater chance to dry out and cool off.

And by the way, I don't believe I have ever messed up scoring when I was Judge #5. :rolleyes::becky:
 
I usually "fake" sneeze into my hand and linger over the box with it and more times than not I can have whatever piece I desire....
Ed
 
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