Kcbs bod agenda 2-05-10

Bride of Roo(BQ'n) said:

At the time of sanctioning is a bit extreme. Deposits have to be made by Dec 1 of the prior year for that years contest for sanctioning. Our contest is in September. While the turn in times have never been anything other than typical, we havent even met yet to decide ancillary categories etc....

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Thats cool, how about well in advance then

The 4 meats should always be at the normal times. Extra categories matter less.

They are working on better wording for the turn in time change. I understand why they want to do it so I guess we'll wait and see what gets passed. After all at the end of the day the organizer is paying the money to us cooks so we may not like changes but may have to accept some.

Ford said:

Pork comes off and satys off. Want 2 temps cook 2 butts. This whole discussion has been ridiculous at best. And don't say we part Brisket and put it back on. You can ccok flats, packers so parting is legal. the rule calls for a whole butt not pieces so parting is illegal. :evil:

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EDIT: wow, sorry, this ended up a paragraph. But havent gotten to share in a while The rule change is silly... it is too broad. Everyone gets the "cook 2 butts" issue. But once they are sliced/pulled/chopped, some cooks like to put sauce on the prepared pieces, and set the sauce in the cooker for turn in. This wording does not allow those cooks to do that. What is asinine is that someone would say that is "cooking"... 15 min in the cooker before turnin is not doing any additional cooking. And if that is where they are going - why not extend it to brisket... we can cook flats or packers... not slices. So if you put slices in the cooker sauced, or in aujus etc... you are not cooking a packer or flat so keep it out of the cooker once it is sliced, etc... That line of thinking is just crazy. Obviously we dont want to go in that direction. It is silly for pork, chicken, ribs, or brisket. It is gross over extension of the rule as it is written... and adjusting the rule to make that parts of it... is even worse.

It does not effect me - I dont set my sauce on the meat, heck I still ended up 19th in pork for KCBS this year... so my scores are fine. But if I cook two butts, slice one and pull one... I should be able to sauce and set them just like all the other meats. It is inconsistent and incredibly silly.

BBQ_Mayor said:

As for Ford. No reason to dis us upright charcoal cookers. It's a little harsh calling us small upright cooker cooks, idiots and drunks and I represent that comment.

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I wish someone would dis us pellet cooking, big trailer having, family and dog toting cookers.., who drink too much, have way to much fun, and still compete to boot! we make up at least 1.456% of the cooks out there :icon_cool

Ford said:

They are working on better wording for the turn in time change. I understand why they want to do it so I guess we'll wait and see what gets passed. After all at the end of the day the organizer is paying the money to us cooks so we may not like changes but may have to accept some.

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Ford, can you elaborate what the change is for? I thought the existing wording gave them the freedom to change things up if needed. ( to address ancillary catagory needs, or other activity) I've had some start at 11am, some start a 1pm.... and I know one contest in cali, got permission to have a split turnin at two different times completely.

Have there been timing issues or something to drive the request. I'm just unaware of the reasoning, I'd love your insight - you usually are in the know on this stuff.

remember Im an idiot, but.........

do rule changes = evolution?

I played beach volleyball on the "local" circut and the sanctioning body changed a rule. (original) the ball could not touch the net during a serve.
(new) as long as the ball went over the net during the serve it was good. People yelled and screamed about the change , while the better teams adapted and used the new rules to their advantage the average teams complained.... what good teams/players do...adapt.control,conquer and win...isnt this kinda the same? hit the net and make the ball change direction and freak out the other team...

sorry if this doesnt make sense to anyone else but me..thank you for your time...

Sal

Smokin' Gnome BBQ said:

do rule changes = evolution?

I played beach volleyball on the "local" circut and the sanctioning body changed a rule. (original) the ball could not touch the net during a serve.
(new) as long as the ball went over the net during the serve it was good. People yelled and screamed about the change , while the better teams adapted and used the new rules to their advantage the average teams complained.... what good teams/players do...adapt.control,conquer and win...isnt this kinda the same? hit the net and make the ball change direction and freak out the other team...
sorry if this doesnt make sense to anyone else but me..thank you for your time...Sal

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It does make sense... but I would not say all rule changes = evolution. A change made to include something new, or take into account something new different, be more inclusive, etc... something that actually "Evolves"...

I think it is fair to be able to ask for what about the rule is evolving... or is it just a rule for the sake of being a rule. I'm all for evolution. I'm sure they had a good reason for allowing those serves to stand if they made it over the net... If someone had a valid reason that shows what is evolving thanks to the change.... then I am all for it.

KC_Bobby said:

How many of the board members actively compete? Are Mike Lake and Gene Goycochea are the only two? Do either (or any of the others) compete more than 4-5 times a year?

I'm wondering if the majority of the board even realizes how big of change the chicken suggestions are - or not having set turn in times.

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I cooked 17 KCBS contests last year and 1 IBCA. I'm the only newbie on the board and I'm reading everything said here. Oh, and I attended the rules meeting too.

I was told by multiple BOD members that last minute changes are sometimes reruired by the media. Local or national. It's based on availability of camera crews and it's good publicity for the organizer so they want to be able to do it.

I have no problem with that but as an exception not a rule of last minute notification. Apparently at one contest a change was made last minute and not properly communicated to cooks. Blame the Rep or organizer but it shouldn't require a rule change like this. Somebody didn't do their job or contracted sanctioning agreement.

Ford said:

I was told by multiple BOD members that last minute changes are sometimes reruired by the media. Local or national. It's based on availability of camera crews and it's good publicity for the organizer so they want to be able to do it.

I have no problem with that but as an exception not a rule of last minute notification. Apparently at one contest a change was made last minute and not properly communicated to cooks. Blame the Rep or organizer but it shouldn't require a rule change like this. Somebody didn't do their job or contracted sanctioning agreement.

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Thanks, I can see that ... but I agree with your assessment. Not sure it needs a rule change. Folks just need to do thier jobs right.:wink:

Candy, you being there, you know a lot of these proposed changes are bullchit and that wasn't the way things went down! Now's the time to go to battle for us cookers! Do what you did in the rules meeting and don't back down! I wish like hell I was there with you to help stand up but instead you got Paul. Maybe he won't report. This crap is EXACTLY what I was talking about for almost five months. Some of these people are so out of touch with actual competing that they shouldn't be within the same ZIP code as where any rule making is going on!

Candy Sue said:

I cooked 17 KCBS contests last year and 1 IBCA. I'm the only newbie on the board and I'm reading everything said here. Oh, and I attended the rules meeting too.

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I knew that - not how many, but knew you were a cook. You being new, I forgot you were on the board - sorry 'bout that.

Like Jeff said, fight the fight - make sure the non-cooks understand the importance of cooks knowing time schedules before we start prepping and voting on a chicken rule change isn't something that makes sense. By that logic, we'll have to cook the whole hog for ribs and shoulder and a side of beef to get some slices of brisket.

Would it be so hard for the board to require (for major rule changes involving cooks) that at least a certain number of the present votes be from active cooks? It might not be a logistical possibility to be there in person, but a teleconference vote or a WebEx like voting option is easy enough to set up. I mean, heck, I voted for Jeff for the BoD on-line, why not allow cooks to vote on rule changes in the same fashion?

tmcmaster said:

Would it be so hard for the board to require (for major rule changes involving cooks) that at least a certain number of the present votes be from active cooks? It might not be a logistical possibility to be there in person, but a teleconference vote or a WebEx like voting option is easy enough to set up. I mean, heck, I voted for Jeff for the BoD on-line, why not allow cooks to vote on rule changes in the same fashion?

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How does KCBS know whether a member is a cook or not?

<WARNING: Rhetorical question... they don't.>

Plowboy said:

How does KCBS know whether a member is a cook or not?

<WARNING: Rhetorical question... they don't.>

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Bang on but if it's on the annual election ballot then cooks and judges (remember they have a say in rules as well) would be more likely to vote on these issues and non competition folks probably wouldn't vote unless a friend that is a competition cook asked them to vote on an issue. Not perfect but certainly better than the rules meeting concept today.

I remember a few years back we had the toss the garnish website and at the rules meeting a petition with 170 or so votes was submitted and they wanted it to count as part of the vote for a rule change to toss the garnish. Well it didn't count (no way to validate KCBS membership) and it didn't matter because at the end of the day a majority of the BOD will decide any rule changes.

Communication is the key...

I posted this on another forum, but I may have had a moment of clarity so I thought I'd throw it on here too...

I kinda 'jumped in' but try to follow along... :twisted:

...has everything to do with the members communicating to the KCBS RULES COMMITTEE, and the Rules Committee communicating to the BoD. If there were more people attending the Rules Mtg, more people would get their voices heard, and maybe then we would feel better represented.
We all know that the meeting is held in conjunction with the Annual Banquet. PLAN FOR IT, regardless of where it is held. And if you can't possibly get there, send an e-mail or letter to the committee members beforehand.

The Rules Committee, on the other hand, has the responsibility to LISTEN and RESPOND. That becomes their job when they are assigned to the committee.
This is one reason that I, and many others, feel as though more non-BoD members should be on these sub-committees. A more thorough representation of the membership.

It comes down to making our voices heard, and having our views supported and REPRESENTED by the people we elect.
If people don't vote and/or communicate, then the system will not work the way it is designed.
thanks ...
michelle

lunchlady said:

I posted this on another forum, but I may have had a moment of clarity so I thought I'd throw it on here too...

I kinda 'jumped in' but try to follow along... :twisted:

...has everything to do with the members communicating to the KCBS RULES COMMITTEE, and the Rules Committee communicating to the BoD. If there were more people attending the Rules Mtg, more people would get their voices heard, and maybe then we would feel better represented.
We all know that the meeting is held in conjunction with the Annual Banquet. PLAN FOR IT, regardless of where it is held. And if you can't possibly get there, send an e-mail or letter to the committee members beforehand.

The Rules Committee, on the other hand, has the responsibility to LISTEN and RESPOND. That becomes their job when they are assigned to the committee.
This is one reason that I, and many others, feel as though more non-BoD members should be on these sub-committees. A more thorough representation of the membership.

It comes down to making our voices heard, and having our views supported and REPRESENTED by the people we elect.
If people don't vote and/or communicate, then the system will not work the way it is designed.
thanks ...
michelle

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Problem #1 - Who are the members of the rules committee? We know who the chair is, but I may be sitting next to someone on the committee and never know it. KCBS needs to publish committee members and publish openings/needs for committees. This has been determined as an appropriate strategy from my unofficial committee on committees.

Problem #2 - The rules meeting is a inadequate vehicle for feedback. It holds way too small of a sampling. More or less... it is a complete waste of everyone's time.

Problem #3 - We make use of readily available technology way to little in the KCBS organization. Let's have moderated online discussions about rules proposals. More people have access to the Internet than will attend a meeting.

Plowboy said:

Problem #3 - We make use of readily available technology way to little in the KCBS organization. Let's have moderated online discussions about rules proposals. More people have access to the Internet than will attend a meeting.

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Ain't that the truth. Around the comps I've been to, it seems more likely than not the site has internet access in some capacity - laptop and/or cell phone. I don't have the hard numbers of how many members have internet access at home, but we know only 4 election ballets were requested. Seems to me that the active KCBS member is online. Seems the board would easily get feedback to proposals if they would set up surveys - which members could opt-in to get. And members could opt in to receive notifications about different subjects - competitions, rules, judging, recipes, sponsorship offers, etc.

Plowboy said:

Problem #1 - Who are the members of the rules committee? We know who the chair is, but I may be sitting next to someone on the committee and never know it. KCBS needs to publish committee members and publish openings/needs for committees. This has been determined as an appropriate strategy from my unofficial committee on committees.

Problem #2 - The rules meeting is a inadequate vehicle for feedback. It holds way too small of a sampling. More or less... it is a complete waste of everyone's time.

Problem #3 - We make use of readily available technology way to little in the KCBS organization. Let's have moderated online discussions about rules proposals. More people have access to the Internet than will attend a meeting.

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Todd for KCBS BOD

OK, Toddy and Bobby KCBS 2011!

Jorge said:

OK, Toddy and Bobby KCBS 2011!

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Whatever, Jorgy.