KCBS Pork Rule

DawgPhan said:

I really doubt that the teams that will compete for Pork ToY in KCBS are fretting over how they are going to cook their pork come January.

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I slightly disagree with this statement. ONLY because yesterday I was on the phone with the main cook from a top team and we were discussing other stuff and our practices cooks and he made the comment he doesnt know how to practice/ change his pork yet so for now he is going to work with the other meats.

And I have another buddy of mine who calls me fairly often and he is an up and coming team. he did well this year and plans on making a serious run next year. At least once a week he asks me if I have heard any updates on the pork rule.

Both these guys can and will go by whatever rule is in place even if it is the same as this season and previous seasons but it sounds like they might want to practice to learn any and all options.

As for me, I am not a good enough cook to worry about it one way or the other. I will mess it up no matter which way I cook it.

The original intent of the pork rule was for the PitMaster to demonstrate their abilities in cooking the whole shoulder or one of the 2 halves typically available (the whole picnic or the whole butt). Trimming into muscle groups was never the intention. The cook became creative and further separated the shoulder into muscle groups making it easier to cook. The rule changed by add minimum weight and no parting. Once again the cook's become very creative in their trimming by using partial parting into separate muscle groups than demonstrating actual cooking skills. The rule has been stretching beyond its flexibility in a sport centered on honesty and integrity than rule watchdogs in every camp.


Proposed rule.

Pork shall be the whole shoulder or one of the two halves (Picnic or Butt) having a minimum weight of 5 pounds after trimming. Separation of muscles before cooking is complete is prohibited.

I just hope when this is settled, someone from KCBS is able to answer definitively what is and isn't legal. I could care less how it ends up. I just don't want to get DQ'd over a misunderstanding.

DawgPhan said:

I really doubt that the teams that will compete for Pork ToY in KCBS are fretting over how they are going to cook their pork come January.

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I wouldn't count on that.... I know a former pork TOY that is practicing ....

If I can cook separately, you damn well bet for sure I'll be developing ways to only cook 2 butts instead of 4!!.. All on the smoker, all low and slow, so don't try to kick my a$$ for 'grilling'.. Every time we pull butts after turn in, it's so damn tough on the muscles we don't cook, it's just a waste of not making an entire, good quality pork. If it wasn't for my wife, I'd just throw them shoe soles in the trash.

Podge said:

If I can cook separately, you damn well bet for sure I'll be developing ways to only cook 2 butts instead of 4!!.. All on the smoker, all low and slow, so don't try to kick my a$$ for 'grilling'.. Every time we pull butts after turn in, it's so damn tough on the muscles we don't cook, it's just a waste of not making an entire, good quality pork. If it wasn't for my wife, I'd just throw them shoe soles in the trash.

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100% agree, we too use an off-set and cook four butts, two trimmed for pulled/chunks, and two trimmed for the MM. It sucks having two butts that are too under cooked to pull left over(the MM butts) to take home or serve for public sampling. It is a total waste. It would be nice, and cheaper for us if we could cook only two butts, separate the MM when it hits 185'ish and put the reminder back on the pit until they tender up enough to pull or chuck.

BMerrill said:

The original intent of the pork rule was for the PitMaster to demonstrate their abilities in cooking the whole shoulder or one of the 2 halves typically available (the whole picnic or the whole butt). Trimming into muscle groups was never the intention. The cook became creative and further separated the shoulder into muscle groups making it easier to cook. The rule changed by add minimum weight and no parting. Once again the cook's become very creative in their trimming by using partial parting into separate muscle groups than demonstrating actual cooking skills. The rule has been stretching beyond its flexibility in a sport centered on honesty and integrity than rule watchdogs in every camp.

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I'm not sure how turning in select pieces of 4 butts (trimmed and cooked differently) demonstrates the ability to cook a whole butt. The only way to evaluate a cook's ability to cook the whole shoulder/butt would be to limit everyone to one piece and have them turn it in whole.

Honestly, making the rule simply "the pork must come from the shoulder" is good enough for me and would put it in line with the other three meats.

MikeJ65 said:

Honestly, making the rule simply "the pork must come from the shoulder" is good enough for me and would put it in line with the other three meats.

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The butchers would love that, they could charge as much as they want for the MM by itself and everyone would pay it. Teams would cook 1 whole butt and 6 MM's:wink:

Thinking out loud here....has there been any discussion about limiting teams to only cooking 2 butts (and a simple "5 lb min, has to be from the shoulder rule")? That way everyone is on the same playing field and the MM harvesting issue goes away. You simply cook 2 butts and turn in the best parts, whatever that may be. Only challenge would be how to handle when teams cook extra meat for people choice, there would be no way to separate the KCBS meat from PC meat.

ShencoSmoke said:

Thinking out loud here....has there been any discussion about limiting teams to only cooking 2 butts (and a simple "5 lb min, has to be from the shoulder rule")? That way everyone is on the same playing field and the MM harvesting issue goes away. You simply cook 2 butts and turn in the best parts, whatever that may be. Only challenge would be how to handle when teams cook extra meat for people choice, there would be no way to separate the KCBS meat from PC meat.

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Everyone would still be cooking one for MM and one for pulled/chunks. If you limit it to one, you would see less MM turned in and it would be lower quality. I'm not sure that is a positive.

The only real difference if parting is allowed is that people will cook fewer butts. For all the talk of grilled MM or pork sausage, all you will see is the same boxes turned in and less pork in the trash.

Podge said:

If I can cook separately, you damn well bet for sure I'll be developing ways to only cook 2 butts instead of 4!!.. All on the smoker, all low and slow, so don't try to kick my a$$ for 'grilling'.. Every time we pull butts after turn in, it's so damn tough on the muscles we don't cook, it's just a waste of not making an entire, good quality pork. If it wasn't for my wife, I'd just throw them shoe soles in the trash.

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This is how I feel about the rule. Like many, we cook 2 butts for MM (which the rest is trashed) and 2 butts for pulled, chunks, etc. I don't like to waste food but I'm not going to risk being DQ'd just to satisfy my own desire to not waste. It doesn't give me any advantage finishing the rest of the butts so why not allow it?

You guys make me feel dumb. I use the same butts for pulled and for MM.

I must be the only SOB with hot spots on my cooker.

Hawg Father of Seoul said:

You guys make me feel dumb. I use the same butts for pulled and for MM.

I must be the only SOB with hot spots on my cooker.

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I was just thinking the same thing! I cook 3 butts as that is all the room I have but use them all for MM and pulled.

Hawg Father of Seoul said:

You guys make me feel dumb. I use the same butts for pulled and for MM.

I must be the only SOB with hot spots on my cooker.

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No I cook 3 butts and the way I do it I can get MM, chunks and Pulled all from the same one. The last contest I did came in 6th out of 43 and everything in the box came from one butt.

Hawg Father of Seoul said:

You guys make me feel dumb. I use the same butts for pulled and for MM.

I must be the only SOB with hot spots on my cooker.

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Me too. I cook two butts, pick the best one, and turn it in, but what do I know?

I still don't see the harm in eliminating slices as a valid pork turn-in option. Get rid of that and the rules suddenly become very easy to understand and enforce.

Rookie'48 said:

The KCBS Board of Directors (bod@kcbs.us) and the Rules Committee (rules@kcbs.us) are willing, even glad, to hear their members' thoughts on rules changes.

Last year at the Open Rules meeting not one person there spoke up in favor of keeping the parting rule. Out of all of the e-mail responses to the Rules Committee regarding the pork rule not one stated that they were in favor of keeping it the way it was. Each and every member who mentioned the pork parting rule said to ditch it.

So - loaded with that information from the members - I proposed, and the BoD passed, a new pork rule. After a little tweaking Jeff re-submitted the proposed rule and it was passed by the Board. Jeff has now asked that the Board give their final approval to the rules changes for the 2014 BBQ season. That motion failed .

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Rich Parker said:

From what I was told there were under 50 people there. Even if all were cooks that is a very low percentage to our registered team count. Especially to be making assumptions that is how the majority feels.

I do not want to see KCBS change rules just to reduce the skillsets needed to cook pork or any meat.

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BMerrill said:

From what you said, the new rule should read like this.

Pork shall come from the shoulder.

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Okay, that's a good START!

The next (and most important) step is to send those thoughts to KCBS. All of the ranting and raving on a forum doesn't get your thoughts to the BoD, contacting the Board or the Rules Committee will.

And as far as how many members were present at the meeting in January: Those were the only ones that we heard from! Where were the concerns/thoughts from anyone else? If every one of the members who responded felt one way how is the Board supposed to know what the rest of the membership thought if they didn't make their views known???

That's why there was the ad in the BullSheet and the e-blast asking for input on rules for the 2014 season. If no one lets the Board know what they think how are the Board members supposed to figure that out?

The same goes for any and all things that come before the Board. Is there a disciplinary issue coming up? Let us know how you feel. Is there a problem with a certain Contest Rep? Let us know how you feel. Do you have some thoughts on a better way to do something? Let us know how you feel. Is there something in the KCBS Rules that you think could be better? Let us know how you feel.

Don't sit there and wonder how the Board is going to handle something - let us know how you feel. It's YOUR organization. We were elected to serve YOU - the members. Let us know how YOU feel! :thumb:

Rookie'48 said:

contacting the Board or the Rules Committee will.

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List of Rules committee members?

No need for me to return our pork to the cooker.... I do a good enough job overcooking it in the cambro lol.

Note to self... leave foil open longer before putting in cambro :tsk:

:idea: