krshome
Full Fledged Farker
OK I keep seeing that BBQ started here in VA but what style of sauce was used? Are there any good recipes for one?
Virginia BBQ sauce ??????
- Thread starter krshome
- Start date
Bludawg
somebody shut me the fark up.
As far as I have ever been able to find it was mostly vinegar salt molasses and pepper similar to a E.NC style sauce Ole Boshizzle will probably chime in on this I'd like to here his take on it too.
krshome
Full Fledged Farker
Boshizzle where are you? We need your take on this! Happy new year everyone
que_dawg
Knows what a fatty is.
I'm not sure of all the ingredients, but I have heard the locals call it "Virginia Vinegar", and it was good!
cashew
Is lookin for wood to cook with.
This is the vinegar sauce I have been using and I really like it,
2 cups cider vinegar
1 cup ketchup
1/2 cup hot sauce( I have been using med Ortega taco sauce)
2 tablespoons salt
2 tablespoons coarsely ground black pepper
1 tablespoon red pepper flakes
1/2 cup sugar
I am not sure where the recipe comes from, I got it from a co-worker, but I really like it.
2 cups cider vinegar
1 cup ketchup
1/2 cup hot sauce( I have been using med Ortega taco sauce)
2 tablespoons salt
2 tablespoons coarsely ground black pepper
1 tablespoon red pepper flakes
1/2 cup sugar
I am not sure where the recipe comes from, I got it from a co-worker, but I really like it.
krshome
Full Fledged Farker
That really looks like a NC style????????
twinsfan
is one Smokin' Farker
If you go back to the 18th century, with community barbecues, the sauce would be comprised of melted butter, cider vinegar, red and black pepper, and a little Maderia wine.
I think nowadays cashew's sauce is pretty close, although that's too much hot sauce if it's a respectable brand. I would cut down on the sugar in cashew's and add a 1/4 cup of ballpark mustard. Very good
Anything with ketchup is Western NC, or Piedmont style.
Eastern NC is just vinegar and pepper and salt, for the most part
It's a huge divide in the state, which kind of sauce is better.
I think nowadays cashew's sauce is pretty close, although that's too much hot sauce if it's a respectable brand. I would cut down on the sugar in cashew's and add a 1/4 cup of ballpark mustard. Very good
Anything with ketchup is Western NC, or Piedmont style.
Eastern NC is just vinegar and pepper and salt, for the most part
It's a huge divide in the state, which kind of sauce is better.
Boshizzle
somebody shut me the fark up.
VA BBQ Sauce? That's tough to identify as existing nowadays. From my travels through the state, the three places with what I would consider to have the closest thing to VA BBQ sauce would be Allman's BBQ in Fredericksburg, Pierce's BBQ Pitt in Williamsburg, and perhaps King's BBQ in Petersburg.
VA BBQ sauce, like everywhere else, was modified and evolved throughout the centuries in a way that reflected the prosperity of the times. Early on back in the 1600's, the English didn't like the gamy flavors of the native game so they began using vinegar based sauces on meat in order to cover up the gaminess.
Native Americans taught the English their ways of smoking meat. When enslaved people from Africa and the West Indies arrived, they refined the cooking process into what we are familiar with nowadays by using a bed of coals with the meat suspended above them.
As prosperity increased, more wealthy people began to use more spices and even sugar when cooking BBQ. Poor people and enslaved people didn't have that luxury and continued to use the vinegar, butter, salt, pepper, cayenne sauce. In fact, that sauce remained as a main component in just about all BBQ cooking by most African Americans and poorer white people until at least around the 1920's. That recipe was passed down from generation to generation and that was just the way you cook BBQ. As enslaved people moved around the colonies because of inheritances, sales, trades, etc., that cooking technique and sauce was spread all over the South.
Also, the only way to get into North Carolina, South Carolina, GA, Kentucky, etc. during colonial times was from either VA or PA using Indian hunting/trading paths that led from PA, through VA all the way down to about Augusta, GA. As settlers in VA set out to find new lands to settle, they took their BBQ with them. Those are some of the reasons that the vinegar, butter, salt, pepper, cayenne sauce is so universal throughout the South.
Here is some further information you may find helpful regarding the sauces and flavors used in VA BBQ -
From the 1600's onward - Butter or lard, vinegar, salt, pepper, cayenne.
Early 19th century - vinegar, mustard, sugar, salt, pepper, butter, mushroom ketchup, garlic, honey, peach syrup, soy, molasses, and starting around the 1830s tomato ketchup.
Late 19th century - Worcestershire, tomato, vinegar, salt, pepper, mustard.
Early to mid 19th century meat flavoring -
2 chopped onions
3 pods of red (cayenne) pepper chopped
2 TBS brown sugar
1 TBS celery seed
1 TBS ground mustard
1 tsp turmeric
1 tsp black pepper
1 tsp salt
Add 1 quart of cider vinegar and mix well.
Shack sauce is an old school Virginia sauce inspired by a great Virginia BBQ cook named Shack who lived from around 1840 to about 1920.
1 1/2 cup Apple Cider Vinegar
1/4 cup water
1/4 cup of your favorite hot sauce
1 Tablespoon (TBS) Paprika
1 TBS Black Pepper
1 TBS Kitchen Salt
2 TBS Yellow Mustard (French)
Mix well, let sit for at least 24 to 48 hours before serving for best results. I blend it in my Ninja, that's why it's about 16 ounces total.
So, if you want an authentic VA BBQ sauce nowadays, I'd suggest that you get to work using some of the ingredients I listed above. Of course, just as it always has been, the VA BBQ sauce you create will reflect the prosperity and tastes of our time. But, that's just as much a part of VA BBQ sauce as vinegar is.
Check out Issue 9 of Smoke Signals for more details - http://www.smokesignalsmagazine.com/SSM/Issue9/index
VA BBQ sauce, like everywhere else, was modified and evolved throughout the centuries in a way that reflected the prosperity of the times. Early on back in the 1600's, the English didn't like the gamy flavors of the native game so they began using vinegar based sauces on meat in order to cover up the gaminess.
Native Americans taught the English their ways of smoking meat. When enslaved people from Africa and the West Indies arrived, they refined the cooking process into what we are familiar with nowadays by using a bed of coals with the meat suspended above them.
As prosperity increased, more wealthy people began to use more spices and even sugar when cooking BBQ. Poor people and enslaved people didn't have that luxury and continued to use the vinegar, butter, salt, pepper, cayenne sauce. In fact, that sauce remained as a main component in just about all BBQ cooking by most African Americans and poorer white people until at least around the 1920's. That recipe was passed down from generation to generation and that was just the way you cook BBQ. As enslaved people moved around the colonies because of inheritances, sales, trades, etc., that cooking technique and sauce was spread all over the South.
Also, the only way to get into North Carolina, South Carolina, GA, Kentucky, etc. during colonial times was from either VA or PA using Indian hunting/trading paths that led from PA, through VA all the way down to about Augusta, GA. As settlers in VA set out to find new lands to settle, they took their BBQ with them. Those are some of the reasons that the vinegar, butter, salt, pepper, cayenne sauce is so universal throughout the South.
Here is some further information you may find helpful regarding the sauces and flavors used in VA BBQ -
From the 1600's onward - Butter or lard, vinegar, salt, pepper, cayenne.
Early 19th century - vinegar, mustard, sugar, salt, pepper, butter, mushroom ketchup, garlic, honey, peach syrup, soy, molasses, and starting around the 1830s tomato ketchup.
Late 19th century - Worcestershire, tomato, vinegar, salt, pepper, mustard.
Early to mid 19th century meat flavoring -
2 chopped onions
3 pods of red (cayenne) pepper chopped
2 TBS brown sugar
1 TBS celery seed
1 TBS ground mustard
1 tsp turmeric
1 tsp black pepper
1 tsp salt
Add 1 quart of cider vinegar and mix well.
Shack sauce is an old school Virginia sauce inspired by a great Virginia BBQ cook named Shack who lived from around 1840 to about 1920.
1 1/2 cup Apple Cider Vinegar
1/4 cup water
1/4 cup of your favorite hot sauce
1 Tablespoon (TBS) Paprika
1 TBS Black Pepper
1 TBS Kitchen Salt
2 TBS Yellow Mustard (French)
Mix well, let sit for at least 24 to 48 hours before serving for best results. I blend it in my Ninja, that's why it's about 16 ounces total.
So, if you want an authentic VA BBQ sauce nowadays, I'd suggest that you get to work using some of the ingredients I listed above. Of course, just as it always has been, the VA BBQ sauce you create will reflect the prosperity and tastes of our time. But, that's just as much a part of VA BBQ sauce as vinegar is.
Check out Issue 9 of Smoke Signals for more details - http://www.smokesignalsmagazine.com/SSM/Issue9/index
Cayman1
is one Smokin' Farker
Great post! Thanks for putting it together.
Have a happy and prosperous New Year.
Have a happy and prosperous New Year.
krshome
Full Fledged Farker
Boshizzle is the man!
code3rrt
Babbling Farker
I really enjoy your history "lessons" Bo. It's nice to have such a historian in our midst.
Thanks
KC
Thanks
KC
captndan
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Thanks Bos good history lesson. And for the other authorities there was no ketchup in early Virginia. :clap:
Brauma
somebody shut me the fark up.
Looks good, Bo. I'll definitely try those out.
If you want a store-bought VA BBQ sauce, this is what I grew up on at backyard pig pickins:
http://www.cfsauer.com/products.asp?id=20
It is a hybrid vinegar/tomato based sauce. It's fairly thin too. I always keep a bottle on hand in my stash of sauces.
If you want a store-bought VA BBQ sauce, this is what I grew up on at backyard pig pickins:
http://www.cfsauer.com/products.asp?id=20
It is a hybrid vinegar/tomato based sauce. It's fairly thin too. I always keep a bottle on hand in my stash of sauces.
Boshizzle
somebody shut me the fark up.
Looks good, Bo. I'll definitely try those out.
If you want a store-bought VA BBQ sauce, this is what I grew up on at backyard pig pickins:
http://www.cfsauer.com/products.asp?id=20
It is a hybrid vinegar/tomato based sauce. It's fairly thin too. I always keep a bottle on hand in my stash of sauces.
Yep, that's good too. It was created in Petersburg, VA, sold to Sauer's and they moved production to SC.
Bill's BBQ in Richmond had a good VA sauce too but after decades in business they closed down last year.
B
BBQ_Steve
Guest
I was heartbroken to hear that Bill's BBQ closed. That place was an institution in Richmond. A pulled pork sandwich and a limeade was hard to beat.
Boshizzle
somebody shut me the fark up.
Yep, it sucks! I alsways stopped by to get a sammy with slaw and hot sauce on it when ever I was in Richmond.
Sillius Sodus
Knows what a fatty is.
Interesting.
With the likes of Q Barbeque (Tuffy Stone) and Buz & Ned's (Bobby Flay Slayer) in town, the tired BBQ from Bill's was destined to go by the wayside.
Boshizzle
somebody shut me the fark up.
Tuffy's nor Buz & Ted's are VA style BBQ restaurants. Tuffy uses a KC rub and KC style sauces while B&Z uses KC style and a few others mixed in.
I don't think Bill's BBQ was tired at all. It was quite tasty. Good BBQ doesn't have to be packed with sugar which is what you get at Q BBQ and B&Z. That said, I much prefer Q BBQ to B&Z. Nowadays, when I go to Richmond, I stop by Q BBQ. I wish I could still go to Bill's. I went to B&Z once and that was enough for me.
I don't think Bill's BBQ was tired at all. It was quite tasty. Good BBQ doesn't have to be packed with sugar which is what you get at Q BBQ and B&Z. That said, I much prefer Q BBQ to B&Z. Nowadays, when I go to Richmond, I stop by Q BBQ. I wish I could still go to Bill's. I went to B&Z once and that was enough for me.
Sillius Sodus
Knows what a fatty is.
The amount of business that Bill's BBQ had on a daily basis was evidence enough that the BBQ they produced was "tired." (a word I chose so as not to be really derogatory towards the now defunct business)
And actually, as I go to both Q and B&N on a weekly basis, I can tell you that both serve their ribs both wet and dry. Neither dry rub is "packed with sugar" and until one gets the sauce at either place, sugar is not main proponent of their tastes.
As for the B&N "once" trip, all I can say is beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or, taste is on the tongue of the taster. It's clearly why Bills is no longer in business - despite owning all buildings and having a longtime staff (read-no real debt).
http://richmondvabarbecue.com/bills-barbecue-richmond-bbq-institution-closed-and-gone/
:wink:
Boshizzle
somebody shut me the fark up.
I know exactly what Tuffy uses in his rub and it does have a good amount of sugar. Don't get me started on the sauces. Same goes for B&Z.
Bill's was low to no sugar BBQ in seasonings or sauce. Bill's was old school kind of like so many other things that younger people don't respect. It doesn't mean it's "tired" or bad. It just wasn't filled with sugar. Let's face it, sugar sells. Take a look at the 25 top selling BBQ sauces and see for yourself. They are all so similar and so sweet.
I'll hang on to the tired old vinegar stuff myself. I like some sweet sauces but not many of the copy cat sauces that are around. It's hard to tell the difference between a lot of them and don't get me started on the whole liquid smoke thing most of them have.
Bill's was low to no sugar BBQ in seasonings or sauce. Bill's was old school kind of like so many other things that younger people don't respect. It doesn't mean it's "tired" or bad. It just wasn't filled with sugar. Let's face it, sugar sells. Take a look at the 25 top selling BBQ sauces and see for yourself. They are all so similar and so sweet.
I'll hang on to the tired old vinegar stuff myself. I like some sweet sauces but not many of the copy cat sauces that are around. It's hard to tell the difference between a lot of them and don't get me started on the whole liquid smoke thing most of them have.
