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KCBS Intarnational Initiative will not include me

drbbq

drbbq

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To all my BBQ friends in Europe. This motion was denied at the KCBS meeting the other day. Looks like there will be a group coming your way to teach some judging and cooking classes but I won't be part of it.

From KCBS.us :
Don Harwell made a motion that KCBS member Ray Lampe be added as a full member to the KCBS International Outreach Team along with the names approved last month. 2nd by Gene Goycochea, a role call vote was requested. The results were as follows:

Harwell - Y, Lohman - N, Goycochea - Y, Shupe - N, Bigler - N, Bragg - Y, Lake - Abstain, Budai - N, Simmons - Absent, Kirk - Absent, Whitebook - Absent With (4) Nays, (3) Ayes and (1) Abstain. Motion failed.
 
Same old same old,,just one more reason for change, speak with your vote for new voice..



drbbq said:
To all my BBQ friends in Europe. This motion was denied at the KCBS meeting the other day. Looks like there will be a group coming your way to teach some judging and cooking classes but I won't be part of it.

From KCBS.us :
Don Harwell made a motion that KCBS member Ray Lampe be added as a full member to the KCBS International Outreach Team along with the names approved last month. 2nd by Gene Goycochea, a role call vote was requested. The results were as follows:

Harwell - Y, Lohman - N, Goycochea - Y, Shupe - N, Bigler - N, Bragg - Y, Lake - Abstain, Budai - N, Simmons - Absent, Kirk - Absent, Whitebook - Absent With (4) Nays, (3) Ayes and (1) Abstain. Motion failed.
Click to expand...
 
I dont know what the international initiative is or does but to leave out Dr.BBQ?? Sounds like you were interested in teaching others. With you being a legend and author in the Qing world seems like a poor decision.

May not be international here but Ray you would be welcome in my neck of the woods anytime.
 
sitnfat said:
What does the KCBS international outreach team do???
Click to expand...

They serve as ambassadors for KCBS to promote barbecue outside of the US. The team travels to other countries where they hold events to familiarize people there with the operation of a KCBS contest and American BBQ cooking techniques. By sharing knowledge and demonstrating the comraderie and good sportsmanship of competitive barbecue, the team hopes to increase interest in KCBS sanctioned contests outside the borders of the US.

This team has operated for the last couple years to help educate the International teams planning to compete at the Jack. Travel costs have been paid by the team members themselves. KCBS has not subsidized the team beyond supplying instructional materials like placemats and scorecards.
 
CivilWarBBQ said:
They serve as ambassadors for KCBS to promote barbecue outside of the US. The team travels to other countries where they hold events to familiarize people there with the operation of a KCBS contest and American BBQ cooking techniques. By sharing knowledge and demonstrating the comraderie and good sportsmanship of competitive barbecue, the team hopes to increase interest in KCBS sanctioned contests outside the borders of the US.

This team has operated for the last couple years to help educate the International teams planning to compete at the Jack. Travel costs have been paid by the team members themselves. KCBS has not subsidized the team beyond supplying instructional materials like placemats and scorecards.
Click to expand...

that's quite interesting.
 
drbbq said:
To all my BBQ friends in Europe. This motion was denied at the KCBS meeting the other day. Looks like there will be a group coming your way to teach some judging and cooking classes but I won't be part of it.

From KCBS.us :
Don Harwell made a motion that KCBS member Ray Lampe be added as a full member to the KCBS International Outreach Team along with the names approved last month. 2nd by Gene Goycochea, a role call vote was requested. The results were as follows:

Harwell - Y, Lohman - N, Goycochea - Y, Shupe - N, Bigler - N, Bragg - Y, Lake - Abstain, Budai - N, Simmons - Absent, Kirk - Absent, Whitebook - Absent With (4) Nays, (3) Ayes and (1) Abstain. Motion failed.
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure Paul Kirk would have voted for you, Honey Badger.
 
This initiative is a new recognition and expansion by KCBS of an existing program that Wayne Lohman and Bill Gage created independently to help International teams be more competitive when they cook at the Jack.

You can listen to the full discussion that sparked this thread at 1:27:40 of the Oct 2011 BOD meeting recording. I'm certain Wayne would be happy to discuss it in detail with any KCBS member who would like to contact him.
 
CivilWarBBQ said:
They serve as ambassadors for KCBS to promote barbecue outside of the US. The team travels to other countries where they hold events to familiarize people there with the operation of a KCBS contest and American BBQ cooking techniques. By sharing knowledge and demonstrating the comraderie and good sportsmanship of competitive barbecue, the team hopes to increase interest in KCBS sanctioned contests outside the borders of the US.

This team has operated for the last couple years to help educate the International teams planning to compete at the Jack. Travel costs have been paid by the team members themselves. KCBS has not subsidized the team beyond supplying instructional materials like placemats and scorecards.
Click to expand...

....so you can cook a KCBS sanctioned event in Elbonia that has the required 25 teams and the Mullahs decree designating said event a Championship of the Realm, and you wipe the local yokels asses with the IBP Pork butts, Ranchers Reserve Select Briskets, Farmland Moist & Tender Enhanced Spares, Tyson Chicken thighs and the Organic Curly Parsley you had overnighted, celebrated your Elbonian Grand Championship win only to find out days before the Jack Daniels Invitational Draw that it doesn't mean squat!

Let's start a collection...

 
CivilWarBBQ said:
This initiative is a new recognition and expansion by KCBS of an existing program that Wayne Lohman and Bill Gage created independently to help International teams be more competitive when they cook at the Jack.

You can listen to the full discussion that sparked this thread at 1:27:40 of the Oct 2011 BOD meeting recording. I'm certain Wayne would be happy to discuss it in detail with any KCBS member who would like to contact him.
Click to expand...

Well actually Wayne told me that they had been reimbursed for some lodging while there and this year they requested $10k so I think the commitment goes beyond paperwork.

But honestly if done right and transparently I don't think paying for it is out of the question. My beef is they are including two cooks to teach the cooking part that seem to have very little KCBS experience and are pretty much unknown. I'm willing to do it on whatever terms they agree upon yet they choose the unknown cooks instead.
 
I am really unsure why the "nayes" want to chit in the Cheerios of Dr. BBQ. When you have an ambassador to the hobby/ sport like Dr. BBQ why would you take the already established notority and branding that has been in place.
The worst part I see is the fact that there were BODs missing from the meeting and could have changed the entire scenario.
The financial issues have me wondering as well.
 
Screw it, I'd say you ought to just go to Europe, find the country they are doing this outreach program, and do a cooking and preparation class for a KCBS contest on the same day. Let's see who gets the most response!

Dr. BBQ is one of the main faces and voices in the U.S. for competition BBQ. KCBS ought to embrace that, and use it to their advantage.
 
I and lots of others would like to know what the issue really is. Is it your perception that this was a personal attack on you? Or, are you just disappointed that it didn't go your way? Sometimes it is tiring reading all the tirades about the KCBS board when nobody will tell the whole story.
 
Hub said:
I and lots of others would like to know what the issue really is. Is it your perception that this was a personal attack on you? Or, are you just disappointed that it didn't go your way? Sometimes it is tiring reading all the tirades about the KCBS board when nobody will tell the whole story.
Click to expand...

I'm about as straight of a shooter as you're gonna find Hub and frankly that's part of what they don't like about me.

Here's the deal as I know it. Wayne Lohman and Bill Gage have befriended many of the International teams at the Jack as they've worked with them over the years. In Wayne's words they been invited over to help the Europeans learn the ways of KCBS.

Wayne's wife works for an airline so they get free/cheap flights and they've been going to Europe the last few years to teach the folks about KCBS judging and cooking, mostly on their own dime although it's unclear what exactly KCBS has paid for.

Last month I saw on the KCBS BOD agenda that there was a motion to allocate $10k to doing it this year and there was a third couple who I've never heard of tasked with doing the cooking classes. So I sent a letter to the board asking them to consider me for the cooking classes as I also have many contacts in Europe. The motion was passed with no serious consideration to include me.

Since then I've had a friendly conversation with Wayne and Bill and they told me what they planned to do and I offered up what I thought I could do to help. But there was no offer to work together. Just "Let's keep in touch". I'd given up on it at that point.

This month Don Harwell offered up a motion to add me to the team. I really didn't know about this until it had been done. I've been very quiet and respectful throughout the process because I would like to do this and I'm willing to work within the system.

Now as to why they voted me down, I can't answer that. My resume would certainly qualify me but that doesn't seem to be very important. I can tell you that I don't have a very friendly relationship with Tana but the others and I are on good terms as far as I know. It's also rather curious how many turned up absent or abstained but I can't speak to that either. You'll have to ask them.
 
Hub said:
I and lots of others would like to know what the issue really is. Is it your perception that this was a personal attack on you? Or, are you just disappointed that it didn't go your way? Sometimes it is tiring reading all the tirades about the KCBS board when nobody will tell the whole story.
Click to expand...

I can't speak for Ray, but speaking for myself...

I think a better start would have been a little more information when the issue first came up. We know who is going, who will need some additional training, and that the $10k is 'seed money'.

I understand the board can't be expected to address every minor issue. I understand that you can't make everybody happy all of the time, and some people are never happy.

The appearance to some is that some folks got in on a sweetheart deal and get a trip to Europe on the KCBS Visa. I think there are some legitimate questions there.

What could have been done differently?

1) Include the history of the program in either the BullSheet, board minutes, or both.

2) Establish clear and objective criteria and advertise the opportunity, allowing the most qualified candidates possible to apply.

3) Fill in the budget a little more, to answer any questions in advance, for those that are wondering just what that $10k is going to cover. Travel, lodging, meals, for example. I don't need to know to the penny what everything is costing, but I'd appreciate some additional info to try and form an opinion.

Those three steps, taken in advance, would most likely end the discussion before it began. As it stands, I think some people have some reasonable questions. I don't know that anything wrong has gone on. I do know that I'd have preferred for this to be handled differently.
 
Podge said:
Dr. BBQ is one of the main faces and voices in the U.S. for competition BBQ. KCBS ought to embrace that, and use it to their advantage.
Click to expand...

Well put. Anyone who has been to a contest that the good Dr. has attended and spoken to him knows that there is probably not a better ambassador for BBQ. I have spoken to him for the past 4 years at the Royal and he is always cordial, informative and professional. He is also very well known and recognizable. Sounds to me like the the kind of person that they would want. Go figure.:rolleyes: Sounds to me like there is more to the story.:drama: It's stuff like this that makes the BS in KCBS stand for Bull Sheite. :tsk: Thank you KCBS board members for showing your true colors by either voting no or abstaining. I now know who not to vote for.
 
Why are WE spending 10k to go over and teach them??? I pay for my classes here. I'm sure many a cook would love a class paid for on kcbs dime here in the states. How many paid members are in Europe? I totally understand expanding comp BBQ but it's not where I want my membership, organizing fees etc to go. Wouldnt it seem more logical for them to fly here and take a class here on their dime?
 
Sledneck said:
Why are WE spending 10k to go over and teach them??? I pay for my classes here. I'm sure many a cook would love a class paid for on kcbs dime here in the states. How many paid members are in Europe? I totally understand expanding comp BBQ but it's not where I want my membership, organizing fees etc to go. Wouldnt it seem more logical for them to fly here and take a class here on their dime?
Click to expand...


sounds like a nice vacation for a few husbands/wives. International outreach seems like a great long term initiative, but only after once your domestic house is in order.


I agree though that Ray Lampe is an ideal candidate for a program like this.





BOARD AGENDA - November 9, 2011

November 7, 2011


KANSAS CITY BARBEQUE SOCIETY
Board of Directors Meeting - November 9, 2011
AGENDA


Mark Simmons - As a member of the strategic planning committee and keeping in the spirit of the future expansion of KCBS to an international movement, I move that the following proposal be adopted:

PROPOSAL FOR KCBS INTERNATIONAL INITIATIVE:

MISSION STATEMENT: Recognizing barbecue as America’s cuisine, our mission is to celebrate, teach, preserve and promote Barbecue as a culinary technique, sport and art form by:

  • Increasing the knowledge and skills of Out of United States (O.U.S.) competition cook teams to successfully compete in KCBS competitions.
  • Instructing, training and certifying judges according to KCBS parameters so they could judge KCBS sanctioned contests anywhere in the world. ·
  • Supporting and encouraging O.U.S. KCBS competition organizers. ·
  • Increasing KCBS membership worldwide.
Approach:
1. Cooks - We will provide a general training for cook teams interested in US style competitive barbecue cooking. (Using KCBS four meat categories whenever possible.) See June 2011 BullSheet for class approach.
2. Judges - We will train and certify judges, as KCBS judges, in the countries where we are doing cooking instruction. See June 2011 BullSheet for class approach.
3. Organizers - We will mentor and follow through with organizers, following KCBS guidelines, just as we do in the U. S.
4. KCBS - We will interact with the KCBS office and any committee heads (sanctioning, judging, etc.) coordinating questions/issues that arise as a result of working with any of the above O.U.S. participants.
Proposals:
The members of our KCBS International Team are Wayne and Maria Lohman, Bill and Debby Gage, Jim and Becky Johnson. We are proposing to be named as the KCBS International Outreach Team.
A. We propose that the Gages and Lohmans will become certified KCBS judging instructors and that the Johnsons will be cooking instructors.
B. We would propose that Wayne Lohman and Carolyn Wells will be liaisons with the KCBS Board of Directors for the International Initiative. We will also form a team advisory panel utilizing international organizers, cooks and judges.
C. We would propose (reviewed and approved annually by the KCBS BOD) as a budget line item, for expenses that may be incurred (For example-possible costs for translation of any of our judge’s training and organizer manuals or costs for shipping the US rubs and sauces needed for classes).
We will account for all expenditures and work toward a permanent budget.
Known Issues:

  • Currency/Exchange Rate
  • Conveyance with KCBS (suggest electronic exchange)
  • Advertising of contest monies (currencies used)
  • Meat/Garnish availability. -Adjustments may need to be made due to availability of beef brisket. Adjustments of meats used may need to be made based on cultural or religious reasons. Adjustments may need to be made due to the availability/differences in lettuces/cilantro
  • Measurement differences - Meat weight - Box size

After discussion a call for the vote was made by Mike Budai. Seconded by Paul Kirk the vote was unanimous. The motion for the proposal from Mark Simmons was seconded by Tana Shupe. The motion was approved unanimously.
 
Last edited:
Some of what has been posted in this thread is accurate and some is not.

Once again people are jumping to conclusions because they have only learned fragments of the whole story and a handful of hearsay. If you actually listen to the discussion in the BOD tape you will have a much better understanding of the events, and if you have additional questions you should call Wayne Lohman and speak to him directly.

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but it annoys me when people get up in arms over inflammatory posts without bothering to take the time to confirm the facts of the matter for themselves. This is exactly the sort of nonsense that creates divisions among the membership. All the energy taken up by these type of discussions acheives nothing but taking attention away from issues of true importance that need to be addressed within KCBS.
 
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