Interesting article on competition que...

Most judges will tell you that the BBQ they get to eat at competitions....you can't buy it. Meaning it is so much better than anything you can go to a restaurant and get....boutique 'Q or not...

As far as the homogenization....that result is the product of the judging tent. Competitors seek out what hits. There's not many competitors with a pair big enough to try bold differences to try to get a table of judges to snap at it and give a 180.

People can gripe about the pot roast flavor and bullion flavor of brisket all they want. Evidently, the judges like it.

I find it interesting that someone with such a low opinion of competitive BBQ, specifically Peg Leg Porker, had no trouble lowering himself to appear and compete on Season 4 Pitmasters.

cdkeach said:

I find it interesting that someone with such a low opinion of competitive BBQ, specifically Peg Leg Porker, had no trouble lowering himself to appear and compete on Season 4 Pitmasters.

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No argument that Carey is a media-hound, but I think you either mis-read or mis-understood his comments. What I read Carey to say is that the flavour profiles "Kansas City BBQ" have crept into other santioning bodies, particularly MBN/MIM. He also said that the blind box style that wins in KCBS, notably sliced and cubed money muscle, is also more popular in MBN/MIM now than it once was. His point, as far as I was reading, is that Memphis syle competitive BBQ is being pushed out....for better or for worse.

I grew up in Memphis and have eaten plenty of Memphis BBQ, and I've had plenty of KCBS BBQ. I've tasted first place shoulder from Memphis in May, and in my opinion, it tasted a lot more like KCBS "pork" than it did anything you'd find in Gridley's, Willingham's, Corkey's, The Public Eye, or The Commissary. I think that was his point. Love it or hate it, but at least understand it...

dmp

The Wright Thompson article (about the Fatback Collective) that was referenced in the piece was fascinating as well.

Podge said:

This was an interesting article. I will have to add, that us competitors are not bastardizing BBQ.

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http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165297

This article hurts Bbq. They said it themselves, they want the money. They made these comments wit no regard to Bbq as a whole.

If they wanted to help Bbq they would be trying to help out the grey meat guys, the ones that need the help.

Alexa RnQ said:

People are standing in line to eat what's being sold.

They'll also stand in line at People's Choice at BBQ contests.

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smokeisgood said:

There's pretty decent bbq sold on a whole lot of corners in Austin. If they are standing in line for hours at one guys restaurant, that's saying a lot....

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I dont get this either.

I understand the peoples choice lines, captive audience, limited time to get something from a team you may only see once a year...

But to stand in line for hours to get something they have every day? Sorry no way. Like you said there pretty decent bbq on a whjole lot of corners, cant see one place being worth 4 more hours of my life better than another. if its that good, I'll come back when you have enough staff/capacity to handle the load. Maybe its the NYer in me but aint nothing that good that I am willing to waste that much of my life.

daninnewjersey said:

As a total rookie to comp BBQ (did my first last year in Wildwood) there are some things I noticed right away. First, just about every team was as nice as could be. We of course forgot to bring some things and wouldn't you know it some complete strangers we met there had hooked us up with what we needed. A greater group of people I have yet to find. Second....regarding the food...I agree with the article. While that bbq wins comps, it is SO labor intensive, ingredient filled, and downright complicated to make I got exhausted just watching some of these teams cook. We just cooked what we usually make...and hoped that we would beat at least one team.
We beat a few and in my book we were winners (especially since the ribs are the same ones I sell). Look to each his own I know...but it seems to me making the food that complicated would kinda take some of the fun out of it...for me anyway. I mean it seems if you don't have a muffin pan in your arsenal you really don't have a chance of doing well....:mrgreen::mrgreen:

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I agree, they were a little off when describing the competitors as a whole, most are extremely friendly and helpful. We also like to have fun, sometimes a whole lot of fun but you have to realize that doesn't mean teams aren't serious. Like the saying goes, " The BS stops when the green flag drops".

The KCBS circuit is the largest and arguably the most competitive competition cooking curcuit in the country.You dont have to muffin pan your chicken but you better come prepared, you are going to be surrounded by some of the best people at their craft in the country at any given contest. Chris Hart said in another thread, doing it well enough to beat other teams each week is hard work. This is the big leagues and teams will take every measure they can to legally win but dont think that makes it any less fun. What they do might seem complicated to newcomers but look close when they are on stage, most are smiling from ear to ear.

Okay. So I guess on re-reading it's only KCBS barbecue that he has a low opinion of. To paraphrase, a commingling of judges and styles has brought down the level of the barbecue. It has trended away from MBN (read: good barbecue) to KCBS (read: bad barbecue).

And apparently KCBS teams are nothing but "barbtude" while MBN is about a laid-back party get-together. He obviously hasn't been to ANY KCBS events in Georgia.


Some pot-roast briskets not-withstanding, I feel like most competition BBQ is light years better than what you'll find in a restaurant. It would not be cost or time-effective to produce competition BBQ for sale in a restaurant. Maybe the takeaway from the article is that since they can't serve competition quality BBQ in their restaurants, it's better to just bash it in the eyes of Joe Public.

Competition BBQ... whoa. I got me an arse whipp'n last month on this site for shaking my finger at the Triggs Ribs trick of using margerine and foil to make ribs. I went on to say that my comp experience "opened my eyes" and closed my desire to compete.

Seems to me this article is SPOT ON. Gonna get a whole lotta folks bound up in their britches. "Because ya know we been doing it this way so long, it's GOT TO BE RIGHT". I don't know which post above referenced Trigg and his rib game. I don't know if it's a true quite that he doesn't like to eat what he makes for comp.

Nuff said. Comp BBQ has turned into a contest of who can put the best "lipstick" on that pig game. BBQ will NEVER taste like that from my cooker...... never.

Muzzlebrake said:

What they do might seem complicated to newcomers but look close when they are on stage, most are smiling from ear to ear.

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Great point....and even the ones that don't place or do well still go nuts and cheer for the people that do....says a lot about the people in the BBQ world..

cdkeach said:

Okay. So I guess on re-reading it's only KCBS barbecue that he has a low opinion of. To paraphrase, a commingling of judges and styles has brought down the level of the barbecue. It has trended away from MBN (read: good barbecue) to KCBS (read: bad barbecue).

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I have a little bit of inside information on this, and I think it helps to understand where he's coming from: Carey has been cooking MBN/MIM for years, and believes that Memphis style BBQ is the shiznit. We're talking dry, savory BBQ that has been pulled. For him, turning in sweetly sauced pieces of sliced money muscle to win at an MBN event is just wrong. I'm not saying that I agree or disagree, but I get his point of view is all.

cdkeach said:

And apparently KCBS teams are nothing but "barbtude" while MBN is about a laid-back party get-together.

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Again, I know from experience that some KCBS teams have been total jerks to him. Some warranted, some not. He's not the only MBN guy who thinks that KCBS teams are too uptight. I've spoken to a few others. Warranted or not, he's not alone in his opinion.

cdkeach said:

I feel like most competition BBQ is light years better than what you'll find in a restaurant.

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I think it's fare to say that competition Q and Restaurant Q are different. Saying that one is better than the other is an opinion, but ponder this: I can think of 4 people that I know who own successful BBQ restaurants and compete on the current circuit successfully. None of them cook it the exact same. What that tells me is that each one is better for its intended purpose. Just my opinion.

Note: I'm not speaking for Carey here and haven't discussed this article or thread with him. I'm just saying that I think I know how he feels better than most.

dmp

dmprantz said:

I can think of 4 people that I know who own successful BBQ restaurants and compete on the current circuit successfully. None of them cook it the exact same. What that tells me is that each one is better for its intended purpose. Just my opinion.

dmp

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Why are you saying this to us. It's your buddy who just shll on these guys, not us.

Sorry that some one hurt his feelings in KCBS. Some things I might now say will definitely hurt his feelings.

Hawg Father of Seoul said:

Why are you saying this to us. It's you buddy who just shll on these guys, not us.

Sorry that some one hurt his feelings in KCBS. Some things I might now say will definitely hurt his feelings.

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I think he was just trying to point out there can be a crossover between competition and restaurant styles of BBQ and they dont have to be exclusive.

I have no doubt that all 4 of these guys use tricks learned competing in the restaurant and restaurant skills when competing, I doubt they cook that food the same.

Hawg Father of Seoul said:

Why are you saying this to us. It's you buddy who just shll on these guys, not us.

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I honestly think you misunderstood my point. This whole thing is quite funny really. A lot of people have been on The Brethren over the years saying that they don't eat what they turn in, but one guy puts it in an article and people get their panties in a bunch. He's not my "buddy," but whatever.

dmp

mtbchip said:

Competition BBQ... whoa. I got me an arse whipp'n last month on this site for shaking my finger at the Triggs Ribs trick of using margerine and foil to make ribs. I went on to say that my comp experience "opened my eyes" and closed my desire to compete.

Seems to me this article is SPOT ON. Gonna get a whole lotta folks bound up in their britches. "Because ya know we been doing it this way so long, it's GOT TO BE RIGHT". I don't know which post above referenced Trigg and his rib game. I don't know if it's a true quite that he doesn't like to eat what he makes for comp.

Nuff said. Comp BBQ has turned into a contest of who can put the best "lipstick" on that pig game. BBQ will NEVER taste like that from my cooker...... never.

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Why do you keep reminding us why you don't like competition bbq in the competition bbq section of this forum? :roll:

Britches in a knot #1 asks:

Rich Parker said:

Why do you keep reminding us why you don't like competition bbq in the competition bbq section of this forum? :roll:

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Well of course, it's just so you can ask.................:doh: Anyone else wondering? Excuse me, but did I post this article or slap me for observing others with the same opinion. Is it I don't have enough subscriptions? Not enough posts to be of knowledge? Afterall, I'm only "on the road to being a farker", a long and winding road with LOTS of pot holes and "interesting at best" celebrities along the way.

Does the shoe fit? WEAR IT!


Please pass the margarine, love to squirt some on my meat!

The referenced article, while being an interesting read, plays well in Memphis but not so well in Poughkeepsie or other areas.

Opinions are like a$$ holes, everyone has one; just some are larger than others. From a perspective of a small area of the US you get the opinion that theirs is the best, and it is, at that point in time and space. I can assure you that the stuff served in Memphis would not pass muster in Lexington and vice versus ; and the stuff served in NEW YORK CITY is bad dog food everywhere else (that’s an opinion).

KCBS is, for want of a better phrase, a melting pot of bbq styles and ideas that play well in all parts of the US. We all know the rules and play to the larger audience if we wish to compete and win. Do we change the way we cook depending on the area we are in? Not normally; do we change the way we cook depending on the organization we are cooking in? Yes, to accommodate the rules and style of the area and the method of judging.

Most cooks and teams in any sport or competitive organization work within the rules to do their best and know that going outside the norm, while invigorating, may not win because it is too different. Hence the trend to a middle ground with very few points separating most teams at the end and the good ones who have perfected the norm always near the top. Each year, these players may, and most times, do change over time.

smokeisgood said:

There's pretty decent bbq sold on a whole lot of corners in Austin. If they are standing in line for hours at one guys restaurant, that's saying a lot....

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I don't agree. I grew up in Tucson, AZ where there are a great many Mexican restaurants located on S 4th Avenue. I know this because I made a habit of trying as many of them as I could.

There was one restaurant there that always had a line of people waiting to be seated and it made me laugh because the food at that place wasn't any better or worse than a dozen other places within a 5 minute drive.

So why was there a line? It just so happend that it was frequented by a local television personality who would, on occassion, mention having dined there while he was on the air. People flocked to it because someone on TV liked it not because it was better than the competition. Again, it wasn't any worse either.

Popularity can result from a mulititude of reasons.

I think the article is interesting. But, there was a point of view, and leading questions, to make a particular point of view heard. Since I am new to competition BBQ and old to "real" BBQ, I kinda look at these things and wonder why such emotion. If you don't like KCBS BBQ, then don't cook or eat it.

I happen to like both. I have noticed of late, that many of the Q joints I like, are panned by KCBS judges, as well as what I would call traditionalists. I don't think this is a bad thing, it is reasonable that people from different backgrounds and experiences would like different foods and tastes.

As to lines and making money, it is worth noting that there is far more money being made with Chile's/Applebee's type BBQ than there is in the places we all like to admire. Truth of not, the reason lines form, is because demand has been piqued. If a particular place gets buzz, then it gets lines. I do think it is ridiculous to compare restaurant cooking to competition cooking, in any genre. What you have to do to be successful in the restaurant business is so fundamentally different from competition, or backyard. There is no way to compare, and hence, no way to say one is being ruined by another.

BTW, some of the best ribs I have ever had got 5's and 6's across the board at a KCBS comp.

dmprantz said:

I have a little bit of inside information on this, and I think it helps to understand where he's coming from: Carey has been cooking MBN/MIM for years, and believes that Memphis style BBQ is the shiznit. We're talking dry, savory BBQ that has been pulled. For him, turning in sweetly sauced pieces of sliced money muscle to win at an MBN event is just wrong. I'm not saying that I agree or disagree, but I get his point of view is all.



Again, I know from experience that some KCBS teams have been total jerks to him. Some warranted, some not. He's not the only MBN guy who thinks that KCBS teams are too uptight. I've spoken to a few others. Warranted or not, he's not alone in his opinion.



I think it's fare to say that competition Q and Restaurant Q are different. Saying that one is better than the other is an opinion, but ponder this: I can think of 4 people that I know who own successful BBQ restaurants and compete on the current circuit successfully. None of them cook it the exact same. What that tells me is that each one is better for its intended purpose. Just my opinion.

Note: I'm not speaking for Carey here and haven't discussed this article or thread with him. I'm just saying that I think I know how he feels better than most.

dmp

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I grew up eating **** grilled, smothered in some sauce, you'd have to chew it into oblivion to be able to swallow the greasy, fatty, burnt sauce ****. Lets just say that growing up I thought I hated BBQ, particularly ribs.

Then, somewhere along the way, heaven forbid, I ran into a restaurant rib that was falling off the bone, and I LOVED IT. I thought this was BBQ....

I didnt run into really, and I mean REALLY DAMNED GOOD BBQ until I began judging Memphis In May BBQ back when MiM was a sanctioning body.

The ribs were (and are) extremely moist, pull cleanly from the bone with only slight resistance, and aren't sauced into oblivion; the very best dont have sauce at all; they dont need it. The pulled pork (from either the shoulder or whole hog) has wonderful bark, but it's not tough. It's spiced wonderfully and doesnt need sauce. The BBQ stands alone, on it's own, and could be a meal all by itself (no need for sides, or buns, or SAUCE). Frankly, IMHO, if you haven't experienced this, you're missing out.

Not that sauced, sweet BBQ isn't BBQ. It's your preference perhaps, and that's great if it is. I would like you to try some pure MiM/MBN Memphis Style Q sometime head to head, actually EATING (not sampling) them and decide for yourself.

I think what they were saying was that KCBS has had an influence. I know in 2004, 2005, we never saw money muscle come across an MIM table; never. The pork was pulled, and juicy, sometimes had a little bit of sauce, tender, not sliced/cut, and awesome. Times however they are a changin'.

All that B.S. above, like others have said, it's ludicrous to compare backyard (your personal preference), to restaurant (that which hopefully can be profitable), to competition BBQ which has to appeal to everyone and offend no one. They are not the same and never will be. Competing is a game. Whether you take it seriously (as perhaps the KCBSesque folks apparently do) or are there to socialize (try MBN; 2 folks dont cut it), you're not there to appeal to one persons personal preference, but to amaze X number of judges without offending even 1 judge. That's not your personal preference backyard Q; it's certainly not mine...

There's nothing wrong with that (above), other than to compare them is insanity.