Super low and slow brisket question

I've done something similar, but different. I smoked a brisket at 300 until it hit 160, then foiled and dropped the temp to 180. My thinking was that not much "cooking" takes place at the low temps, so I might as well get it up to temp as fast as possible, then go low and slow.
It took approx. 14 hrs total to probe tender. Unfortunately I didn't record the IT when it was done.
After a 9 hr rest in a cambro, it was slightly overcooked.
 
ok, here are the results of my first experiment. total cook time 26 hours 40 minutes.

-Pork Butt started at 9lb 12.3 OZ
-cooked it at 180° grate temp for 22 hours. internal temp of the meat did not even move for the first three hours. I thought my probe was broken.
-I upped the temp to 200 for another 4.5 hours, and pulled the meat at an internal temp of 160° when it probed tender.
-final weight 7lbs 5oz

observations:

1. contrary to popular belief, cooking low doesnt make jerky. it only lost 25% of original weight
2. surprisingly big smoke ring
3. I really liked the color.. I wasnt expecting it to turn black and it didnt
4. based on the color I thought the bark would be soft but it was the crispiest bark ive ever gotten from a pork butt.
5. meat below the crust was very juicy but not as pull apart tender as normal even though it probed tender.
6. aroma was great. it filled the whole house but smoke flavor was very light and clean- my wife who does not like smoke flavor thought it had a nice aroma.
 

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No worries about making jerky - the reason jerky comes out the way it does is precisely because it is meant to remove all of the moisture from the meat to prevent bacteria forming, hence the necessity to cut it into thin strips.

I've experimented with very ow temperature oven roasting quite a lot (long before sous-vide was a practical option even for a professional chef), it's an exquisite technique with lots of advantages, but perhaps these advantages are less apparent and outweighed by disadvantages when applied to barbecue. Time and fuel being the two largest, followed by burn temperature of the fuel source which affects the amount and chemical content of the smoke produced.

There is a whole lot of science behind the differences in cooking at such radically different temperatures as, say, 180° vs 325°F. The mantra in BBQ seems to have become that the meat doesn't know what temperature you cooked it at and will get done no matter what - this is true only insofar as the meat will get done, but it does not mean the results will be the same unless other adjustments have been made to the processes to even them out or compensate for the differences.

In other words, if you do everything the same except time in the cooker you will not get the same amount of bark, smoke, colour, texture, tenderness, moisture content, aroma, and as a result of the combination of all of these, the taste. The final internal temperature that produces a 'best' combination of tenderness and juiciness will also be different, which is why experienced hands will always choose to pull according to feel and probe tenderness over according only to temperature.

Experience has taught me to to poo-poo anything until I understand it, and food science is actually insanely complex, so it's understandable people get a near religious defensiveness for the way they found works for them. Anyone who really wants to expand their horizons and gain valuable experience should try these different methods, besides being educational it's really fun and you will learn more than by doing a hundred cooks exactly the way you are used to.

There are many ways to skin a cat, just haven't found a good way to barbecue one.
 
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One Drop said:
No worries about making jerky - the reason jerky comes out the way it does is precisely because it is meant to remove all of the moisture from the meat to prevent bacteria forming, hence the necessity to cut it into thin strips.

I've experimented with very ow temperature oven roasting quite a lot (long before sous-vide was a practical option even for a professional chef), it's an exquisite technique with lots of advantages, but perhaps these advantages are less apparent and outweighed by disadvantages when applied to barbecue. Time and fuel being the two largest, followed by burn temperature of the fuel source which affects the amount and chemical content of the smoke produced.

There is a whole lot of science behind the differences in cooking at such radically different temperatures as, say, 180° vs 325°F. The mantra in BBQ seems to have become that the meat doesn't know what temperature you cooked it at and will get done no matter what - this is true only insofar as the meat will get done, but it does not mean the results will be the same unless other adjustments have been made to the processes to even them out or compensate for the differences.

In other words, if you do everything the same except time in the cooker you will not get the same amount of bark, smoke, colour, texture, tenderness, moisture content, aroma, and as a result of the combination of all of these, the taste. The final internal temperature that produces a 'best' combination of tenderness and juiciness will also be different, which is why experienced hands will always choose to pull according to feel and probe tenderness over according only to temperature.

Experience has taught me to to poo-poo anything until I understand it, and food science is actually insanely complex, so it's understandable people get a near religious defensiveness for the way they found works for them. Anyone who really wants to expand their horizons and gain valuable experience should try these different methods, besides being educational it's really fun and you will learn more than by doing a hundred cooks exactly the way you are used to.

There are many ways to skin a cat, just haven't found a good way to barbecue one.
Click to expand...

Well said. I like to understand how different aspects of the Q process affect the final outcome and experimenting is fun. thankfully q experiments, unlike other hobbies Ive had, are inexpensive and edible.

for this slow cook what I noticed was that the smoke flavor permeated deeper into the meat. not more smoke, just deeper into the meat.

but you are also right that while I didn't have to sit there and baby the cooker it was still 26 hours of cooking.
 
btw, I do plan( hopefully) to try this test with brisket this weekend but I think I want to try at 212 degrees. I think 180 is a little too low/slow for me
 
el luchador said:
btw, I do plan( hopefully) to try this test with brisket this weekend but I think I want to try at 212 degrees. I think 180 is a little too low/slow for me
Click to expand...

looking forward to this boiling brisket cook. :biggrin1:
 
those stories of low and slow brisket- I wonder how accurate their gauges were.

the brisket has been cooking 18 hours now. temp has been rock steady at 210 degrees . internal temp 153.7 and it took 9 hours to make the trip from 40 -140.

Im thinking those guys who say they cook low and slow brisket in 12 or 18 hours or whatever have a bad gauge.
 
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Ok I'm about damn sick and tired of this low slow brisket.

29 hours till probe tender at 170 degrees! 29 hours in the cooker unfoiled !

But it was the most tender most juicy brisket flat I've EVER made or EVER eaten period!!!

To not blow it out of proportion it was also the best marbled brisket I've ever bought. All 19lbs of it. So that played a big part. I couldn't believe my luck that Sam's club had a well marbled brisket but this was the most melt in your mouth flat ever
 
Why 210 and not 225? That's what most cook books pre 1990 list for barbecue.
 
Czarbecue said:
Why 210 and not 225? That's what most cook books pre 1990 list for barbecue.
Click to expand...

Just sneaking up on my ideal temp.

Next one will be done at 225 but I'm very happy with the results of the 210 cook. I didn't think a flat could be this tender and not even foiled
 
This was my heat profile from the 29hr cook - for 90 pct of the time it was at 210 but I placed the lid incorrectly one time and it went to 240 for about 2 hours or so.

Meat was pulled at an internal temp of 170 degrees and if you look at the left side of the Brisket slice you'll notice it's barely holding on
 

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I love a pic of a slice that looks like it might break off on its own. :Thumb:

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
el luchador said:
Ok I'm about damn sick and tired of this low slow brisket.

29 hours till probe tender at 170 degrees! 29 hours in the cooker unfoiled !

But it was the most tender most juicy brisket flat I've EVER made or EVER eaten period!!!

To not blow it out of proportion it was also the best marbled brisket I've ever bought. All 19lbs of it. So that played a big part. I couldn't believe my luck that Sam's club had a well marbled brisket but this was the most melt in your mouth flat ever
Click to expand...

Do a prime rib at low temp, you may find that it's results are equally good.:thumb:
 
Cook said:
I'd like some 'vintage' barbecue cook books. What pre-'90s books do you own or have looked at? Maybe I can find 'em somewhere and pick them up.
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I’d need to check my box of books in the garage. I have a few from the mid 90s. But a search for brisket temp will get you a lot of hits before the hot and fast technique became common place.

Like this:

ca6ca1f51f8cc8fa4ec0e1ecbcd8b5c8.jpg


The guy then had about a dozen or so people echo his smoking temp for briskets. Amazing how this was the norm at one time.
 
Cook said:
I'd like some 'vintage' barbecue cook books. What pre-'90s books do you own or have looked at? Maybe I can find 'em somewhere and pick them up.
Click to expand...

"The Complete Barbecue Book," by John and Marie Roberson, published in 1951. It has sections on building outdoor cookers, entertaining, mixing cocktails, and over 300 food recipes, among other things.

This book is everything the post-war boom is said to have encompassed as regards family leisure.
 
pjtexas1 said:
I love a pic of a slice that looks like it might break off on its own. :thumb:

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks. First time I've achieved that.

Burnt at Both Endz said:
Do a prime rib at low temp, you may find that it's results are equally good.:thumb:
Click to expand...
Thanks. I Will have to not that if I ever cook a prime rib.

Czarbecue said:
I’d need to check my box of books in the garage. I have a few from the mid 90s. But a search for brisket temp will get you a lot of hits before the hot and fast technique became common place.

Like this:

ca6ca1f51f8cc8fa4ec0e1ecbcd8b5c8.jpg


The guy then had about a dozen or so people echo his smoking temp for briskets. Amazing how this was the norm at one time.
Click to expand...

I like the idea of letting the rub sit for two to three days. I like to go four days on brisket if possible
 
Pretty masochistic going with such a big brisket at that cook temp. 4# less would have saved you some hours.
Cool experiment, though.
 
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