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KCBS Pork Rule

YankeeBBQ said:
Luke warm is a hell of a lot better than cold. Thus putting it in the box as hot as you can is a really good start. Many cooks carry their turn in containers in an insulated carrier. Several preheat that carrier. You think maybe there's a reason for that ??
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If a cook has cold pork at turn in they should go home and practice and whatever score they get that day is well deserved. Before you bring it up, I have been there and done that!

Why should the other teams be put at a disadvantage because they were able to put hot pork in their turn in box?
 
Slamdunkpro said:
I don't find Steve disingenuous but I find that particular oft repeated argument so. Specious might be a better word.
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I get it. When I was elected I actually wanted to open the category up to "pork" and turn cooks loose. Then I looked at the ramifications more closely and listened to a couple of people that suggested we needed pork to be a long cook since chicken and ribs were either on short timelines or timelines that were shrinking.

MABA may be different, but when you get elected to the KCBS BoD you need to accept the fact that you are wrong. Nobody calls or emails when you did something right. Nobody calls or emails when you ask for input. If something goes south people will come out of the woodwork when you've made a decisions on something that you've already asked for input on.

I give Steve and Dave all the credit in the world for being willing to step out and listen and take the heat. Heat that isn't necessarily from you.

I added Thanks to Podge's post about just voting the damn thing. I don't agree with the new rule, but it might just get cooks pissed off enough to give a chit. Steve is a cook, and a great cook. He may not agree with the input he's given but I've got no doubt he'd consider it and take the input to the committee and BoD. Being elected to the BoD doesn't invest anyone with ESP to know what the cooks are thinking. Maybe this will be a catalyst to encourage communication from the bottom up. If not, cooks can continue to bitch and whine, which will happen no matter what the BoD does.
 
Just like the US elected government officials, if you don't like what they're doing, then vote on someone you agree with at the next election.

Tell ya what would make for an interesting polling question for potential canidates for next election, is to he how they specifically feel about the potential pork rules and what they believe in and would vote for. Indirectly, the voting membership would then have a vote for the person on what they believe in for the pork rule. (not saying the pork rule is the one and only hot topic of discussion, but damn, I can't remember the last time something like this has dragged on and on and on. Again, this ain't a consensus, it's a vote by our elected board members!)
 
Jorge said:
I get it. When I was elected I actually wanted to open the category up to "pork" and turn cooks loose. Then I looked at the ramifications more closely and listened to a couple of people that suggested we needed pork to be a long cook since chicken and ribs were either on short timelines or timelines that were shrinking.

MABA may be different, but when you get elected to the KCBS BoD you need to accept the fact that you are wrong. Nobody calls or emails when you did something right. Nobody calls or emails when you ask for input. If something goes south people will come out of the woodwork when you've made a decisions on something that you've already asked for input on.

I give Steve and Dave all the credit in the world for being willing to step out and listen and take the heat. Heat that isn't necessarily from you.

I added Thanks to Podge's post about just voting the damn thing. I don't agree with the new rule, but it might just get cooks pissed off enough to give a chit. Steve is a cook, and a great cook. He may not agree with the input he's given but I've got no doubt he'd consider it and take the input to the committee and BoD. Being elected to the BoD doesn't invest anyone with ESP to know what the cooks are thinking. Maybe this will be a catalyst to encourage communication from the bottom up. If not, cooks can continue to bitch and whine, which will happen no matter what the BoD does.
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Let's hold on a sec, this isn't personal on my end nor is it whining or sour grapes. As for input to the BOD, I've tried to do that in a constructive way. I had a conversation with Candy about this at Sam's and asked her who was replacing Jeff as head of Competition since he resigned - She said no one is. Now we don't know who is on the competition committee or who if anyone is chairing it and we're coming down to the wire on 2014. I'm not trying to speak for Mike Peters here but it appears that he recognized that the pork rule that is scheduled to take effect next year is flawed and I applaud him for stepping up and taking the heat for that.

It seems to me that this whole thing is boiling down to one vocal group who wants to be able to cut up their pork butt; another group that doesn't, a bunch who don't really care and the last group (which I'm in) doesn't really care except that we want the rule to be clear with little wiggle room and we don't want the category dumbed down.

If the Board changes the pork rule, cut / no cut / whatever, it's going to impact a lot of people and with the spotlight on BBQ the way it is right now the last thing KCBS needs is a new rule with acres of grey open to interpretation and shenanigans.

I also want to apologize to Steve Farrin if I in any way implied that he was dishonest or not dealing above board. I wasn't.
 
If your product isn't hot enough, rules 17. g & h address this, "holding warm","cooling" and "reheating". This applies to all meats including pork.
 
I agree that we need a rule that is clearly defined eliminating the gray area for creative trimming. It's is simple, you can cut the mm off before cook is complete or you can't and should leave the pork whole with minimal trim. I prefer that we leave pork category whole as it is intended to show skill with large cuts of meat, but either way let's define this rule to make sure it is clear.
 
Hawg Father of Seoul said:
You guys make me feel dumb. I use the same butts for pulled and for MM.

I must be the only SOB with hot spots on my cooker.
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We cook 'em whole.

When Dave introduced the new rule, I was in favor of it because the no parting rule wasn't well worded, and not being able to reheat or glaze pork (something allowed with other meats) didn't make sense.

The more I see of the debate though, the more I think we should just leave it as is. Pork has gone from our worst to our strongest category, and I really don't want to spend the next 3 months reinventing it.
 
When will the rule go into effect and what rule is it going to be? Will it go into effect for contests in December that count towards 2014 TOY points?
 
jaestar said:
When will the rule go into effect and what rule is it going to be? Will it go into effect for contests in December that count towards 2014 TOY points?
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The pork rule is in limbo at the moment. The board is getting together in the near future (week or so?) to bring it up for discussion. If/when a change to the current rule goes in to effect, I am almost certain it would be for the 2014 calendar year.
 
I think I'll just cook pork like I always have. I'm sure whatever rule is finalized, it'll have enough grey areas in it (per people's perception and interpretation) that it wouldn't be worth messing with any other way.
 
jaestar said:
When will the rule go into effect and what rule is it going to be? Will it go into effect for contests in December that count towards 2014 TOY points?
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The quick notes give you a rough idea of the discussion that went on and why it is in limbo. Begin reading where it says "Mike Peters" right after the KCBScore Committee Report about 1/3rd the way down. Although I would say I found the recording to be quite interesting.:becky:
 
musicmanryann said:
The quick notes give you a rough idea of the discussion that went on and why it is in limbo. Begin reading where it says "Mike Peters" right after the KCBScore Committee Report about 1/3rd the way down. Although I would say I found the recording to be quite interesting.:becky:
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They are going to be too busy trying to figure out to how break the ToY tie than to mess around with this pork rule. :clap2:
 
Good idea, I think a heads up match would be cool. Though I bet they are going to give it to the team with the most gc's for the year.
 
I'm sure the BOD will have a new rule and decision made by 2017 in regards to the TOY tie breaker that will end up Pi$$ing off better than 50% of the membership.
 
Read the notes and then listened to the recording.
My take on the discussion on the recording.
Retain 5 pounds.
Cook whole until done.
Can be returned back to the cooker to reheat only.

I disgree with the comment, "membership wants to eliminate the parting rule".
From the comments here it is mixed about 50/50.

As for reheating rule 17) h. addresses this.

What are your thoughts?
 
Seems like that's where they are at, however they have not voted on it, and if they don't at the next meeting, the old rule would remain in effect for the 2014 season.
 
Podge said:
I'm sure the BOD will have a new rule and decision made by 2017 in regards to the TOY tie breaker that will end up Pi$$ing off better than 50% of the membership.
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Actually there's been a tie breaker in place since 2011
http://www.kcbs.us/pdf/march2011bullsheet.pdf

Rules Committee: Candy Weaver
The following changes to the rules for Team of the Year for the 2011
calendar year, are proposed. These will go into effect immediately.
Candy Weaver made a motion in order to prevent a tie in the top 20
positions, the following procedures be applied. Look at the 11th. place
scores of the contests of each tied team. The team with the most 1st
place scores is the winner. If this does not break the tie, look to the
eleventh contest cooked by the tied teams. This contest score will be
factored in with the other ten contest scores. Should this not break the
tie, continue with contest 12. Should a team not have cooked more than
10 contests, a zero will be input for the tiebreaking contest. Of Jan 1,
2011. The motion was seconded by Merl Whitebook.
Vote:10 yes, 0 no, 0 abstentions
 
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