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Direct heat and indirect heat techniques reconciliation

Boshizzle

Boshizzle

somebody shut me the fark up.
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In the South, there is a debate about direct heat barbecue techniques (open pit) and indirect techniques (offsets, verticals with diffusers, reverse flows, etc.)

Originally, all southern BBQ was cooked with direct heat. It seems that the government required health requirements that started around the turn of the century caused a big switch to indirect cookers in many areas. Anyone have any citations for that?

In one of his books, Steven Raichlen called cooking BBQ with indirect heat "smoke roasting." I'm not sure I agree with that.

I can tell you that direct heat does create BBQ with a different flavor than indirect heat BBQ. Just head out to Snow's BBQ in Lexington, TX for a side by side comparison. The ribs are cooked with direct heat and the brisket with indirect.

Are there any brethren who have strong opinions or any information on why indirect BBQ techniques are still considered southern BBQ cooking techniques?
 
I'm very interested in this subject. Thanks for bringing this up, Boshizzle.

I will be following this post to read people's opinions.
 
As a boy I attend may a community BBQ where Clods where cooked over block/brick open pits. My grandad & my dad both along with some others shoveled a lot of post oak & mesquite coals over night at the community center to feed the masses. Those days sadly are long gone with the me generation. It is this reason I love the flavor cooking directly over the fire I get from my UDS, IMO it is true BBQ flavor. Don't get me wrong I love the flavor I can get from an offset but it's more of a smoky profile. Cooked right it's all GOOD!
 
I think the folks at Scott's in Hemingway would strongly disagree about the statement that "indirect BBQ techniques are still considered southern BBQ cooking techniques". You might try reaching out to Rodney to get his thoughts on the subject and maybe his take on the movement from open pits to indirect. Here is NY times slideshow about Scott's for those of you that are not familiar.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/06/09/dining/20090610-united-slideshow/index.html#
 
ShencoSmoke said:
I think the folks at Scott's in Hemingway would strongly disagree about the statement that "indirect BBQ techniques are still considered southern BBQ cooking techniques". You might try reaching out to Rodney to get his thoughts on the subject and maybe his take on the movement from open pits to indirect. Here is NY times slideshow about Scott's for those of you that are not familiar.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/06/09/dining/20090610-united-slideshow/index.html#
Click to expand...


Great video and yes, there does seem to be something nostalgic about shoveling coals into the pit for direct cooking.
 
ShencoSmoke said:
I think the folks at Scott's in Hemingway would strongly disagree about the statement that "indirect BBQ techniques are still considered southern BBQ cooking techniques". You might try reaching out to Rodney to get his thoughts on the subject and maybe his take on the movement from open pits to indirect. Here is NY times slideshow about Scott's for those of you that are not familiar.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/06/09/dining/20090610-united-slideshow/index.html#
Click to expand...


Gotta love direct and the vinegar cider pepper based sauce he talked about...I'm hooked on it. I'm in Scotts corner!
 
ShencoSmoke,

Yep, that's part of the debate. You have places like Scotts but then you have Lang smokers out of Georgia that a lot of southern BBQ are cooked on.

One other problem with direct pits in our modern world is the fire hazard. They are much more prone to have grease fires in them than the indirect cookers and fire marshals don't like them because of it.
 
Boshizzle said:
ShencoSmoke,

Yep, that's part of the debate. You have places like Scotts but then you have Lang smokers out of Georgia that a lot of southern BBQ are cooked on.

One other problem with direct pits in our modern world is the fire hazard. They are much more prone to have grease fires in them than the indirect cookers and fire marshals don't like them because of it.
Click to expand...

When grease has NO chance to build up there is not chance of grease fires. Look at any UDS that let's the drippings just burn up in the fire. It's silly to say direct pits are fire hazzards imo. LOL...maybe for people that don't clean their pits out.

Commercial pits is something entirely different with the volume they do. The rule still applies that if the majority of the grease is burned up and cleaned up daily there shouldn't be much of a chance of being a hazard. I'm sure places like Scotts knows what they're doing otherwise they'd have been burnt down long ago.
 
I agree with Bo, that's why almost all of the direct cook pits are located in outbuildings and not connected to the restaurants. Fires at those places are common.

I'm in the camp that direct heat pits define "old school" Q. As you know, in this part of Virginia 90% of what people consider "BBQ chicken" is cooked on open pits. I think the same could be said for pit beef to our north in Maryland and Pa.

I think 15- 20 years from now (or maybe sooner) the open pit styles will no longer be legal, sadly enough. The health department regulations only get more stringent. I think as a group we need to protect our traditions. That can be accomplished by education and maybe even political lobbying.

I hope your book comes out soon!
 
Fwismoker said:
When grease has NO chance to build up there is not chance of grease fires. Look at any UDS that let's the drippings just burn up in the fire. It's silly to say direct pits are fire hazzards imo. LOL...maybe for people that don't clean their pits out.

Commercial pits is something entirely different with the volume they do. The rule still applies that if the majority of the grease is burned up and cleaned up daily there shouldn't be much of a chance of being a hazard. I'm sure places like Scotts knows what they're doing otherwise they'd have been burnt down long ago.
Click to expand...


Fact is, lots of BBQ joints have burned up throughout the years due to grease fires in their pits.

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/where-theres-smoke-theres-ire

Where There's Smoke, There's Ire

Two grease fires destroyed Louie Mueller Barbecue's 1959 brick pit in Taylor this past weekend—just as John Mueller's new trailer opened in Austin.
Click to expand...



WRT Scott's in Hemingway...


http://www.scnow.com/observer/news/article_c0dd7b7a-5793-11e3-8c64-0019bb30f31a.html


Scott’s BBQ smokehouse in Hemingway burned in early Wednesday fire

A suspected grease fire destroyed anything that would burn in the fire pits of Scott's Bar-B-Que early Wednesday morning. All that remained were the 14 concrete fire pits and an outer, concrete wall garnished with dangling debris and charred tin.
Click to expand...
 
Cooking a pig(in my youth) started with a shovel and blocks. needed water bucket for fires. Later barrel cookers on wheels. needed smaller shovel and water bucket or hose. Now we are up to offset pits. no shovel and the bucket is under the pit. much easier and safer in my opinion.:wink:

Later,
Doug
 
There must remain a place for Open Pit BBQ despite the fact that all of these things are very much bespoke.

What's required is a standard set of maintenance rules for Open Pit BBQ. It doesn't matter how different the construction is, an open pit will need cleaning out once or twice a week, having the grates scrubbed and the ashes and dust swept out blah blah blah.

Just about every BBQ joint in the US should be able to follow these simple rules and then have the freedom to build pits allowing them to give something different in smoke and flavor profile to the paying public.

If you can't do that, we'll be sitting down to Crockpot BBQ real soon!

Cheers!

Bill
 
Bo is something like a beast. Yet another great thread. One of my favorite things to cook on is my block pit fired with coals burned down from wood.
 
Demosthenes9 said:
Fact is, lots of BBQ joints have burned up throughout the years due to grease fires in their pits.

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/where-theres-smoke-theres-ire





WRT Scott's in Hemingway...


http://www.scnow.com/observer/news/article_c0dd7b7a-5793-11e3-8c64-0019bb30f31a.html
Click to expand...
Too bad to see that. I guess when you cook hundreds of pounds daily stuff can eventually happen. I still am all about cooking over real wood, nothing compares.

smoke ninja said:
Bo is something like a beast. Yet another great thread. One of my favorite things to cook on is my block pit fired with coals burned down from wood.
Click to expand...

Use it more often!
 
A whole lot more has changed in bbq other than cookers.
Used to only put salt and pepper on the pig, then later mop with thin vinegar sauce, serve with same sauce. not any more. Still southern Q?
A lot of pig was burned up in the 80s and 90s using those old oil barrel cookers.:shock:
Gradual change can be good and still make traditional bbq.

Later,
Doug
 
Just a little of topic so don't shoot me

The fire at Scott's occurred when the pits where left unattended. Pit fires can happen in any pit at any time under the right conditions. I had a Small one a few weeks ago in my off set because I eyeballed the angle, brisket grease ran to the Firebox instead of the drain, but I was there to catch it and nipped it in the bud. There are way to many on the Brethren that light it up & go to bed for an overnight cook pit on the patio or the deck. Gentlemen and Ladies don't play with fire it is unforgiving...... Now back to our regularly scheduled program .....Off Rant
 
QDoc said:
Moderators please forgive me.
The pit in this link is open pit BBQ. The meat is cooked direct. In this case chicken. The type seen in Scotts is closed pit where charcoal embers are loaded in one end or the middle and the meat is cooked indirect with a cover over the pit

http://www.roadfood.com/Restaurant/Overview/6053/brooks-house-of-barbq
Click to expand...

I would argue that a cover has nothing to do with the pit being direct or indirect. Scott's feeds their pits at multiple points, not just on one end. Yes, the fire might not be directly under the meat in all parts of the pit, but it is under the meat in general and that is what I call "direct". Would you consider a UDS to be indirect because it has a lid?
scotts.jpg
 
An UDS, WSM's, and BGE's may be either direct or indirect depending on if a deflector is used or not.
 
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