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Old 06-25-2009, 01:33 PM   #49
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 11-11-07
Location: Gone

Mark - My Dear Friend and Brethren.

I sincerely mean that.

For one... what is funny, is neither of us habitually use this product. I do sometimes, actually increasingly so as my new ministry cooks a lot of things ahead of time because we can only smoke around 50 and freeze or cool about that much. But here we are arguing about something we don't use... you use foil and I use butcher paper. I think foil is hugely dangerous but that is another matter. But perhaps our debate will educate.

Now your new info you spend time on it great. Thanks for the contribution. This is what I call a well thought out premise. I was glad to read that. seriously

I agree with your thoughts on the EPA (I mentioned FDA in regards to safety and public information. Recently we have been experiencing limited governmental oversight where we desperately need it because politicians who think that Free Market theology is infallible (it is neither all good or all bad in my opinion) added a caveat to the "police themselves" theory in that it was thought that business owners would police themselves merely to avoid controversy and thereby lose their cookies should a health scare rise up. However, even Greenspan stated that his worst mistake was thinking big business would police itself.

In as far as the government the rule of thumb since the 80's is one way to combat regulation (even if it was passed into law) was to place cronies in at the heads of the various overseeing bodies that were friendly or came from the actual industry they were charged to protect. In addition, lowering budgets (of course not the salaries of said leaders) also reduced a body's capacity to enforce.

So yes I agree with your assertions about trust and the EPA or FDA as this case calls for but only in matters of nuance. The FDA had the stuff on its list.... but removed it as no real studies showed that dioxins did cause this damage after a 30 year call for scientist to come up with it. Furthermore, the main fact is that it simply is not in the product so we kind of are debating a moot point.

Dr. Fujimoto or whatever, was doing studies that included styrofoam... he cited his work was done in Hawaii where he worked then later when pressed for the study he said it was in Japan... when still pressed he said it was in Japaneese. So he is clearly out of the equation as a reputable source.

Now as a critic of your new info... its origin is here

Now Aerias Primary goal is actually to protect air quality. Basically, it knocks just about EVERY plastic made out there. Why, because simply the actual making of the product is bad for our air. But you cannot make the public make the desision on their own as they honestly are busy living from day to day... so the goal here is if they attach a secondary problem to EVERY plastic out there... the theory is demand will go down and thereby reduce production and increase the quality of our air. So even (I can't believe I am saying this) well meaning institutions like this tend to only use one set of datum. I like this article because the references are included (though not that conclusive as most of the food related stuff is secondary sources at best [newpapers]).


If I were you.... read this... it HUGELY supports your argument and also is well credentialed and primary, though dated.

Good good letter.

Originally Posted by Mark View Post

I got a little more time to respond today so here it is. Perhaps leading brands such as Saran Wrap are safe now if used properly. My concern is using off brands that may still contain harmful additives such as plastizers and/or uninformed misuse.

Here's a reputable link:

Note the following:

Phthalates and the Types of Products They are Used I
Di (2-ethylhexyl) phthalate [DEHP]: building products, food packaging, children's products and medical devices DEHP is added to PVC to make some soft, clingy wraps for commercial use. Consumer Reports tested 14 national and local brands of wrapped cheese for levels of plasticizers. The reason they chose cheese is that plasticizers are more likely to leach into fatty foods like cheese and hamburger. They found high levels of DEHP in the cheeses wrapped in deli cling wrap. People who eat several ounces of this cheese every day could get very high doses of DEHP that could possibly cause health problems. There were moderate levels of DEHP in some of the shrink-wrapped cheeses and in the waxed cheeses with plastic overwrap. There was little or no DEHP on individually wrapped slices of American cheese or blocks of cheddar in laminated foil wrap. Consumer Reports also tested plastic wrap. Of the seven national and store brands of plastic wrap they analyzed, only two contained any of the five plasticizers they were looking for. They reheated a cooked hamburger wrapped in those plastic wraps, but found just a little bit of the plasticizers had been absorbed where the patty was in contact with the wrap. In terms of the eight microwavable bowls from top manufacturers they examined, they found no plasticizers.
I believe in a relatively minimalist approach in cooking. Consequently, I don't wrap. I think it's generally a waste of time and finite resources that end up as garbage. This is my personal choice and I don't intend to force such views on anyone else.

Another personal trait of mine is a general mistrust of agencies such as the EPA in safeguarding the public health. In my opinion, such agencies have often been shown to be too cozy with "industry" instead.

Also note my byline: "A thin line separates paranoia from an acute understanding of reality." I could be straying over that line a little here but then again, maybe not.
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