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-   -   KCBS Protected IP's (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60870)

motoeric 04-28-2009 01:13 PM

KCBS Protected IP's
 
(Cross posted from another thread)

For the record, I am in favor of aggressively protecting any IP owned by the organization. Unfortunately, if those IP's aren't clearly defined it leaves things open to debate and guess work. As someone who helps with events that are not KCBS sanctioned (as well as ones that are), I'm forced to make assumptions on what would and would not be an infringement of the KCBS's rights.

Are the following considered to be protected IP's by the KCBS?

1) 6 judges to the table.
2) Categories of Chicken, Ribs, Pork and Brisket
3) Categories of Taste, Texture and Appearance
4) The order that the categories are turned in
5) Turn in times
6) The term 'Kansas City Style'
7) The weighting system for scoring
8- The range of values to judge categories on


Thanks,

Eric

Scottie 04-28-2009 01:17 PM

***** While this is not a legal opinion... ***** :roll:

I do collect a paycheck from a law firm that does do a lot of IP work. So my *guess* would be yes, those are all protected.....

HeSmellsLikeSmoke 04-28-2009 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motoeric (Post 912932)
(Cross posted from another thread)

For the record, I am in favor of aggressively protecting any IP owned by the organization. Unfortunately, if those IP's aren't clearly defined it leaves things open to debate and guess work. As someone who helps with events that are not KCBS sanctioned (as well as ones that are), I'm forced to make assumptions on what would and would not be an infringement of the KCBS's rights.

Are the following considered to be protected IP's by the KCBS?

1) 6 judges to the table.
2) Categories of Chicken, Ribs, Pork and Brisket
3) Categories of Taste, Texture and Appearance
4) The order that the categories are turned in
5) Turn in times
6) The term 'Kansas City Style'
7) The weighting system for scoring
8- The range of values to judge categories on


Thanks,

Eric

Seems like "Kansas City Style" couldn't be protected.

timzcardz 04-28-2009 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motoeric (Post 912932)
(Cross posted from another thread)

For the record, I am in favor of aggressively protecting any IP owned by the organization. Unfortunately, if those IP's aren't clearly defined it leaves things open to debate and guess work. As someone who helps with events that are not KCBS sanctioned (as well as ones that are), I'm forced to make assumptions on what would and would not be an infringement of the KCBS's rights.

Are the following considered to be protected IP's by the KCBS?

1) 6 judges to the table.
2) Categories of Chicken, Ribs, Pork and Brisket
3) Categories of Taste, Texture and Appearance
4) The order that the categories are turned in
5) Turn in times
6) The term 'Kansas City Style'
7) The weighting system for scoring
8- The range of values to judge categories on


Thanks,

Eric

1) Olympics better look out! Don't they use 6 judges in Gymnastics?

2) Every BBQ restaurant across the nation is now getting nervous. Don't they all have "Categories of Chicken, Ribs, Pork and Brisket."

3) Of course KCBS is the only organization that can license judging by "Taste, Texture and Appearance." If you want to have any type of food competition, your judges may not see, feel or taste the food. I just set up a competition where the only judging criteria is Smell, and that is now my I.P., so if you want a competition, you better hurry while sound is still avaialble!

4) Sorry, but using random selection the odds of coming up with the same order are 24 to 1. Very doable. Give me a combination and order that is at least a million to 1 and we can start talking about it.

5) I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that KCBS didn't invent time measuring, so I would love to see the court testimony on this one.

6) There may be something to "Kansas City Style." I can honestly say that I have never heard a MLB team say that they were playing a "Kansas City Style" of Basbeball. Maybe because it's protected? [For entertainmnet value only. No offense is intended towards Kansas City Royals fans. They're off to a decent start this season and I wish them the best.]

7) There may be something legitimate to a claim about their weighting system. Unless of course they took it from somewhere else.

8 ) A scoring system of 1 to 9? Yeah, like that's never done before!

Plowboy 04-28-2009 02:49 PM

Adding to Eric's list...

9) The "definitions" associated with the 1-9 scoring system
10) The actual text of the Rules PDF (It has a Copyright notice on the document)
11) Rules around valid/invalid cuts
12) Garnish rules


I think #7, #8, #9, and #10 could be defended as KCBS IP. Maybe #11. I'm no lawyer, nor do I get a check from a law firm... but I wish I did.

drbbq 04-28-2009 03:06 PM

You guys really think this is a good place to get the answers to these questions? This just seems like a flogging. (Not that I don't enjoy a good flogging)

motoeric 04-28-2009 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drbbq (Post 913024)
You guys really think this is a good place to get the answers to these questions? This just seems like a flogging. (Not that I don't enjoy a good flogging)

Where would you suggest we go to get these questions answered?

Eric

drbbq 04-28-2009 04:42 PM

Well as soon as I say KCBS I'll get hammered so I'm not going to say that.
They're the only ones who could answer at this point but I'd say there's zero chance that they'll answer here.

So I'll suggest that anyone with a dog in the fight gets a lawyer and has him ask KCBS.

CajunSmoker 04-28-2009 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drbbq (Post 913093)
Well as soon as I say KCBS I'll get hammered so I'm not going to say that.
They're the only ones who could answer at this point but I'd say there's zero chance that they'll answer here.

So I'll suggest that anyone with a dog in the fight gets a lawyer and has him ask KCBS.


Watch out Ray, I think that phrase is the property of Michael Vick now:rolleyes: and he already has his share of lawyers:biggrin:

timzcardz 04-28-2009 04:58 PM

Eric,

I don't believe that they would ever disclaim ownership of intellectual rights to anything if asked, for to do so would forever preclude them, or any rights owner, from ever claiming intellectual rights over the property.

The standard is to claim the right and demand discontinuance of the alleged infringing use, and then follow through with the legal system filing a law suit if the alleged infringing use persists.

As the accused of the infringing use, one would have the option to cease the alleged infringing use or fight it in court.

Just because one alleges infringement doesn't make it so. But to acknowledge that any single particulr thing was not infringing would be foolhardy at best.

In short, I don't believe that you or anyone else will get answers to those questions unless something finally ends up in court and a judge decides. That is not likely though, for the potential for loss is a big risk for the property rights owner who will most likely prevail through intimidation or reach a very specific settlement without the court making a precedent setting decision.

motoeric 04-30-2009 04:58 PM

As a heads up:

I sent the questions found here to Merl a few days ago. I haven't heard back yet. I'll let people know when I hear from him. I'll also let people know if I don't hear anything back.

Eric

barbefunkoramaque 04-30-2009 06:06 PM

This is an intelligent response. I was thinking along the lines of :

KCBS, what a bunch of Farking Morons with this crap...

but alas, I have changed over to a new leaf and have decided not to comment at all. Especially on number 2, 3, 5 and 8. In fact I laugh so hard at 2 AND 5 i have to reach for my inhaler.

So no, you won't here me voicing my opinion as an EX KCBS member from 1996... noooooooo way.

I will say that I think they should own the Kansas City Style... someone has to claim responsibility.



Quote:

Originally Posted by timzcardz (Post 912969)
1) Olympics better look out! Don't they use 6 judges in Gymnastics?

2) Every BBQ restaurant across the nation is now getting nervous. Don't they all have "Categories of Chicken, Ribs, Pork and Brisket."

3) Of course KCBS is the only organization that can license judging by "Taste, Texture and Appearance." If you want to have any type of food competition, your judges may not see, feel or taste the food. I just set up a competition where the only judging criteria is Smell, and that is now my I.P., so if you want a competition, you better hurry while sound is still avaialble!

4) Sorry, but using random selection the odds of coming up with the same order are 24 to 1. Very doable. Give me a combination and order that is at least a million to 1 and we can start talking about it.

5) I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that KCBS didn't invent time measuring, so I would love to see the court testimony on this one.

6) There may be something to "Kansas City Style." I can honestly say that I have never heard a MLB team say that they were playing a "Kansas City Style" of Basbeball. Maybe because it's protected? [For entertainmnet value only. No offense is intended towards Kansas City Royals fans. They're off to a decent start this season and I wish them the best.]

7) There may be something legitimate to a claim about their weighting system. Unless of course they took it from somewhere else.

8 ) A scoring system of 1 to 9? Yeah, like that's never done before!


pigmaker23 04-30-2009 10:09 PM

your not far off the mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by drbbq (Post 913093)
Well as soon as I say KCBS I'll get hammered so I'm not going to say that.
They're the only ones who could answer at this point but I'd say there's zero chance that they'll answer here.

So I'll suggest that anyone with a dog in the fight gets a lawyer and has him ask KCBS.


Merl 05-01-2009 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motoeric (Post 914472)
As a heads up:

I sent the questions found here to Merl a few days ago. I haven't heard back yet. I'll let people know when I hear from him. I'll also let people know if I don't hear anything back.

Eric

Eric,
I am surprised with this. You have been provided more information than most, (or so I have been told.) Yet you want to bait this issue. You well know as was stated before, I cannot disclaim any IP on behalf of KCBS.

You also know that we would be sued for discussing a personnel matter.

So I guess you got me. I will not be responding to your question at this time.

Merl

motoeric 05-01-2009 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merl (Post 915018)
Eric,
I am surprised with this. You have been provided more information than most, (or so I have been told.) Yet you want to bait this issue. You well know as was stated before, I cannot disclaim any IP on behalf of KCBS.

You also know that we would be sued for discussing a personnel matter.


So I guess you got me. I will not be responding to your question at this time.

Merl

Uhhhhhh, what are you talking about? I haven't asked for any information about personal matters or personnel issues.

The only area that I was asking about were the issues regarding the IP's. I have absolutely NO information about this from any source, regardless of what you have been told.

I understand your inability to give a categorical list of the things that are covered (as others have brought up that any slip-up not mentioning something that you should have would open up a can of worms later), but I was hopeful that you could say 'yes' or 'no' to the direct questions asked.

I'm not trying to 'bait' any issue and I sort of resent the claim that I am. I believe that the questions asked are eminently reasonable for any event organizer that wishes to avoid conflicts with the KCBS and not only do I believe that this is the right place to post those questions, I was directed here by a moderator.

Eric


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