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-   -   Brisket: Does This Make Sense? (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60457)

Greg60525 04-21-2009 12:12 AM

Brisket: Does This Make Sense?
 
I cut a 6.7 lb brisket flat in half to do an injection/rub comparison. So, if your going by time per pound I figured about 4 - 5 hours. I foiled the brisket with some of the leftover injection at ~ 170F and cooked for about another hour ending with the temp at 206F. The pit temp was 250F. The main goal was a flavor comparison. When I was done I was able to make my judgement on taste, but the tenderness, although good for sandwiches, was not competition quality tender. I was pressed for time and wasn't overly concerned about it, but I want to check my understanding of what has occurred.

So, here's my understanding.........please correct, comment, etc..

Although a smaller brisket will come up to temperature quicker than a larger one, that is not the whole story. It is a time/temperature relationship because it's the connective tissue that has to break down to make the brisket tender. The internal temp of 206F is quite a bit higher than I take the 10 pounders, but it reached it so much quicker, which makes sense due to its small size. To me it would seem that it would take the connective tissue the same amount of time to break down in a small brisket as it does in a large brisket and the only difference in the total cook time is the time it takes the internal temp to get to a predifined temp. The larger one taking longer.

I think this makes sense. What do you think?

Thanks,

Pyle's BBQ 04-21-2009 12:21 AM

How did the brisket feel when you took the temp? Did it feel done? Many here use temp as a gauge to see when to check for doneness and the use the feel of the brisket to know if it is done.

I believe that you are right in your assessment. The connective tissue will still need the same amount of time to break down at that temp. If you had increased the temp, then the connective tissue would have broke down faster. Do a search for high temp brisket for more info.

Bbq Bubba 04-21-2009 07:31 AM

Did you slice it properly?

thirdeye 04-21-2009 08:20 AM

I've never gotten the same quality when I cook smaller flats (less than 5#) like I do from larger ones. In theory, the temperature over time effect on the breakdown and collagen to gelatin conversion should be the same on either size, but for me it's not.

Greg60525 04-21-2009 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyle's BBQ (Post 907325)
How did the brisket feel when you took the temp? Did it feel done?

The probe didn't go in as easy as it normally does, but I was pressed for time. I usually hold in a heated cooler for several hours, but this time it was only held fro 1 hour. A few things were stacked against me.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bbq Bubba (Post 907424)
Did you slice it properly?

I marked it first, parallel to the grain and then cut perpindicular to the cut mark.Thanks guys. Just trying to check my understanding. Some experiments in the future to confirm it may be in order.

michiana mark 04-22-2009 12:45 AM

My opinion on brisket may vary from some others, but it's mine and I stick with it. I have never liked brisket that I have cooked hot, over 230 pit temp, and I don't like it cooked direct. Smaller flats need time to break down collagen as do larger packers. But if you cook thinner cuts of meat at the same temp as larger ones, the thinner ones will almost always come to temp before the thicker ones. This doesn't mean that you will have given that small flat enough time to breakdown and tenderize. Always use the feel test. When I cook a small flat, I try to keep the pit at 200, it may sound low, but this should help get your brisket in the right area.. No need to rush a brisket along, let him hang out in the smoke as long as he needs to.

barbefunkoramaque 04-22-2009 08:38 AM

Attachment 26420

ELEMENTALLY

The very little fat that you did have, left the brisket, without binding to the collagen molecules.

I know nothing about your cut to start with or your smoker so fat up or fat down for how long I can't say.


HOW THEORIZED (Only My Opinion)

If you ever notice on a .... choosing word carefully... "traditionally" cooked brisket packer, it comes out more tender and is more forgiving. This is due to its mass and amount of fat it has. It also a packer, due to its mass and fat, takes higher temperatures for a period (only the end of the cook after the stall is the leastforgiving). Flats will climb quicker for this reason and therefore you nearly have to follow all the rules (even the typical low and slow under 230 rule) or have to foil it to get it to come close to a packer. Flats are very tempermental this way. I hate it when one of my suppliers (who owns a grocery store) donates flats or prices them at a nutty price I cannot resist for a few reasons. One it is harder to tell more about the cow it came from. Its trimmed, its harder to find if its a lefty or righty, and sometimes its maybe a 6-7 pound FLAT that was trimmed to 4 lbs to match the others (using the cut offs for hamburger). So you just don't know. You can even often cook those puppies perfect and still have 6 or 7 come our tough right next to 40 or 50 that came out tender.

Attachment 26421

Also that Fat/collagen bond i was talking about happens easier in a flat when its covered by foil not so much for the steaming as from what I can tell sitting in its juices (which essentially is a bath of fat that will bond with those collagen molecules and let them let go of the meat fibers) How do I know this?????????????????????????????????????????????
I don't foil anything (cept in emergencies) because it is messy when doing 30-40 packers or 50-60 briskets. I PAN which is almost the same BUT I don't cover and flats (in the rare back against the wall case i do this) it still comes out tender and with better bark. The tough ones I will transfer into one or two pans and cover (steel cover) and steam for a few.

Remember, this is only my Opinion about why... listen to everyone and put some thought into it.

barbefunkoramaque 04-22-2009 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michiana mark (Post 908193)
No need to rush a brisket along, let him hang out in the smoke as long as he needs to.


Okay I have had it! This is a travesty. Although your observations about brisket are intelligent there is NO excuse for using the Male gender when attaching pronouns to your culinary prose.

Briskets are women.... they are done when they are done, none of them ever coming from poking them to doneness at the same time. Please refrain from calling a Brisket a He... you will confuse it.


In case no one can tell...I am joking.

But it is HOW you chose to sexualize your brisket that matters.

A Male "He" brisket
Attachment 26422

A Female Brisket
Attachment 26423

:shock:

Bigmista 04-22-2009 09:06 AM

Ummmm..right.

Anyway, did you let the flats restat all before slicing? There was no mention of that.

MTHank 04-22-2009 09:31 AM

I'll have to go with your "Female Brisket" theory :biggrin: Does this mean this thread is headed for the woodpile? :shock:

Meat Burner 04-22-2009 05:40 PM

I love female brisket !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DaChief 04-22-2009 06:45 PM

Thread hijack alert........but ........female brisket = YUMMY!!

Greg60525 04-22-2009 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigmista (Post 908300)
Anyway, did you let the flats restat all before slicing? There was no mention of that.

I did let them rest for about 15 minutes before slicing.

There is a lot of good information........err, opinions! I appreciate it. Just looking for ideas that I could use to draw my own conclusions or to be able to better set-up an experiment.

This is just what I was looking for.

Oh.......one more piece of information. I get the smoker good and hot and as the pit temp starts dropping below 300 - 275F I throw on the briskets and let the temp settle in at 250F, which I try to maintain. This has been my general procedure for any brisket. I never cooked one this small before, but I didn't change the procedure. I'm still fairly new at this, so I'm looking for any helpful hints, procedures, etc..

Thanks,

ElJefe 04-16-2012 01:20 PM

You might consider...
 
You might consider cooking the smaller briskets at a lower temp (say 200) for a longer period of time. That way, the connective tissue would still have time to break down without burning up or drying out the brisket. Just a thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg60525 (Post 907323)
I cut a 6.7 lb brisket flat in half to do an injection/rub comparison. So, if your going by time per pound I figured about 4 - 5 hours. I foiled the brisket with some of the leftover injection at ~ 170F and cooked for about another hour ending with the temp at 206F. The pit temp was 250F. The main goal was a flavor comparison. When I was done I was able to make my judgement on taste, but the tenderness, although good for sandwiches, was not competition quality tender. I was pressed for time and wasn't overly concerned about it, but I want to check my understanding of what has occurred.

So, here's my understanding.........please correct, comment, etc..

Although a smaller brisket will come up to temperature quicker than a larger one, that is not the whole story. It is a time/temperature relationship because it's the connective tissue that has to break down to make the brisket tender. The internal temp of 206F is quite a bit higher than I take the 10 pounders, but it reached it so much quicker, which makes sense due to its small size. To me it would seem that it would take the connective tissue the same amount of time to break down in a small brisket as it does in a large brisket and the only difference in the total cook time is the time it takes the internal temp to get to a predifined temp. The larger one taking longer.

I think this makes sense. What do you think?

Thanks,


frohe 04-16-2012 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michiana mark (Post 908193)
No need to rush a brisket along, let him hang out in the smoke as long as he needs to.

In other words, it's done when it's done. No words are more true when it comes to brisket. Each cut has its own peculiarities which just has to be dealt with. When you can slide a probe into it like a hot knife going into butter, it's done. Check the temp BUT don't rely on it.


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