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-   -   UDS Exhaust - Help (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153648)

froggyshooter 02-11-2013 04:54 PM

UDS Exhaust - Help
 
Question and Request:
Built (building) first UDS: second on the way when this one complete. Just cooked pork butt and it came out great, but had to mess with intake quite a bit.
There are 3 3/4" intakes; 2 with caps one with ball valve. The exhaust is a 1 1/2 metal stack. Got it going with minion method and closed all intakes but 100% on ball valve. When I got home 8 hours later internal (Maverick) smoker temp was 175 F and meat was 150F. This has occurred every time I close off with caps and leave ball valve open 100%. Played with intakes (cap on / off) and it is touchy. The unit is air tight when everything is closed and vent stack is closed.
My thought, but let me know if I am wrong; the 1 1/2" exhaust is causing problem.
Love the way it cooks but cannot get it to hover at 225 like you guys.
Thanks

gtr 02-11-2013 04:57 PM

I leave one cap off and adjust with the ball valve and that works for me. I cook a lot hotter than 225 though - more like 270 to 300. My exhaust is 2" btw.

froggyshooter 02-11-2013 05:03 PM

GTR. Thanks.
that sounds a lot like what I do although getting to stabilize at one temp is difficult. You don't think the exhaust then is any issue?

Bludawg 02-11-2013 05:06 PM

If you had read the Mother of all UDS Threads this has been discussed at great length and you would know that the optimum exhaust size is 2". I run 3 3/4 intakes 2 caps and a Ball valve like gtr 1 cap off fine tune wit the valve and I too cook 275-350. If the exhaust is to small it damps the fire.

gtr 02-11-2013 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by froggyshooter (Post 2364022)
GTR. Thanks.
that sounds a lot like what I do although getting to stabilize at one temp is difficult. You don't think the exhaust then is any issue?

In all honesty I don't know. What I can say is, based on lots of time watching smoke come out of my exhaust (staring at exhaust stacks when cooking is a good thing to do IMO), I don't think I'd want less than 2" for exhaust.

As far as getting it to stabilize - are you allowing time for the temp to settle in? Some folks fiddle a lot and that can lead to fluctuating temps.

froggyshooter 02-11-2013 06:03 PM

Thanks again.
I try not to fiddle, leave it there 30 min etc. Changing the exhaust and work from there. Thanks for the help.
All the best

foam2 02-11-2013 06:48 PM

I don't know that 2" is the optimum exhaust diameter. Weber uses 4 - 3/4" that equates to an area of 7" on the 22" wsm and is fully capable of smoking hot and fast. A 2" exhaust has an area of well over 12 square inches which I believe without any damper control is overkill for the UDS.

Carbon 02-11-2013 07:07 PM

I also have no problem with my stock exhaust vent on my Weber lid.....which is much smaller in area compared to a full 2" exhaust as mentioned above.

razrbakcrzy 02-13-2013 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foam2 (Post 2364167)
I don't know that 2" is the optimum exhaust diameter. Weber uses 4 - 3/4" that equates to an area of 7" on the 22" wsm and is fully capable of smoking hot and fast. A 2" exhaust has an area of well over 12 square inches which I believe without any damper control is overkill for the UDS.

Much different Thermal Dynamic flow with a domed lid as opposed to a flat drum top.....

Carbon 02-13-2013 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razrbakcrzy (Post 2366298)
Much different Thermal Dynamic flow with a domed lid as opposed to a flat drum top.....

Ok, I can see that. Then how about eight 1/2" holes on a flat drum top? The total area of those eight exhaust holes are significantly smaller than a single 2" exhaust.

foam2 02-13-2013 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razrbakcrzy (Post 2366298)
Much different Thermal Dynamic flow with a domed lid as opposed to a flat drum top.....

Domed lid, flat lid, exhaust is exhaust. Weber uses a 3 to one ratio in intake vs exhaust. If you look at the pbc threads, the unit has a massive 3" that is perhaps 30% blocked and 4 exhaust holes where the rods go through. In the PBC videos they even go on to say while the intake is fixed, they recommend that even if you're only cooking on the grate to still insert the rods to prevent the pit from getting too hot. So in this instance the pbc probably uses a ratio higher than the weber and they have a flat lid. The idea of thermo dynamics on a domed lid vs flat with regards to the size of the exhaust is absurd.

razrbakcrzy 02-14-2013 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbon (Post 2366326)
Ok, I can see that. Then how about eight 1/2" holes on a flat drum top? The total area of those eight exhaust holes are significantly smaller than a single 2" exhaust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by foam2 (Post 2366368)
The idea of thermo dynamics on a domed lid vs flat with regards to the size of the exhaust is absurd.


The whole effect of heat rising and creating a draw up through an exhaust stack is thermo dynamics and fluid dynamics at work. If you think its absurd, your absurd....

I have personally experimented with diferent length exhaust tubes from the barrel flat top and I can with the exact same inlet openings, change the temp by as much as 50degrees with a longer exhaust tube. I currently use a 6" exhaust but with a 12" stack the drum will run 50 degrees hotter than the 6" with the exact same setup....

with the normal offset location of the bung hole on a flat top drum the heat on the side oposite the exhaust will rush up against the top of the flat lid and turbulate causing a high pressure zone(turbulent flow), where the heat that rises adjacent to the exhaust opening will rocket straight up and out the 2" exhaust (laminar flow) causing a vaccum(low pressure) and thus a positive flow or a draft in the upward orientation....

With a domed lid the heat all rushes up toward the center exhaust and out, thus the webber lids usually can get by with a much smaller exhaust because of this effect. (the eight circumferential holes would eliminate the turbulence since the hole are all equidistance from the center thus requireing less voulmetric flow)

If you notice the exhuast on a weber usually comes out with a fairly high flow rate and a nice amount of force. Conversely try looking at a drum with an offset exhaust, where the exhaust comes out a failry low flow rate.... but with a higher volume. It's all about volumetric displacement, how much air can you move thru the inlets up through the coals across the food grates and out through the exhaust..

Now, Im done with this. This place was not meant to argue or point finger at each other and call each others ideas absurd, Instead we should be considering all the things each other have to say in the intrest of our mutually shared hobby and passion... This was not meant for the person who simply wanted to discuss this topic, have a nice day..

Heres a little light reading for you...
http://francesa.phy.cmich.edu/people...s/chapter9.htm

Greyeagle 02-14-2013 10:42 AM

Could be your fuel.

foam2 02-14-2013 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razrbakcrzy (Post 2367372)
The whole effect of heat rising and creating a draw up through an exhaust stack is thermo dynamics and fluid dynamics at work. If you think its absurd, your absurd....

I have personally experimented with diferent length exhaust tubes from the barrel flat top and I can with the exact same inlet openings, change the temp by as much as 50degrees with a longer exhaust tube. I currently use a 6" exhaust but with a 12" stack the drum will run 50 degrees hotter than the 6" with the exact same setup....

with the normal offset location of the bung hole on a flat top drum the heat on the side oposite the exhaust will rush up against the top of the flat lid and turbulate causing a high pressure zone(turbulent flow), where the heat that rises adjacent to the exhaust opening will rocket straight up and out the 2" exhaust (laminar flow) causing a vaccum(low pressure) and thus a positive flow or a draft in the upward orientation....

With a domed lid the heat all rushes up toward the center exhaust and out, thus the webber lids usually can get by with a much smaller exhaust because of this effect. (the eight circumferential holes would eliminate the turbulence since the hole are all equidistance from the center thus requireing less voulmetric flow)

If you notice the exhuast on a weber usually comes out with a fairly high flow rate and a nice amount of force. Conversely try looking at a drum with an offset exhaust, where the exhaust comes out a failry low flow rate.... but with a higher volume. It's all about volumetric displacement, how much air can you move thru the inlets up through the coals across the food grates and out through the exhaust..

Now, Im done with this. This place was not meant to argue or point finger at each other and call each others ideas absurd, Instead we should be considering all the things each other have to say in the intrest of our mutually shared hobby and passion... This was not meant for the person who simply wanted to discuss this topic, have a nice day..

Heres a little light reading for you...
http://francesa.phy.cmich.edu/people...s/chapter9.htm

I'm not going to drag this out and argue over a 2" exhaust but I will make some points. I am an engineer both by education and profession, please don't throw around thermo and fluid dynamics to justify your point. In this case with a vertical smoker, you are building heat and exhausting it in the same concentrated area and getting some benefit of convection. You are not trying to draw it to one side like you would an offset smoker which would require a larger volume of air moving through the cook chamer to accomodate. In addition to your comments regarding the longer pipe cooking at hotter temperatures, that is absolutely correct. The length of your pipe serves to add restriction to the exhaust, effectively reducing the air going through the system. In the end you can adjust the flow of exhaust like weber does or any other pits that have variable openings in the exhaust or you can add or remove length to the exhaust. The length of pipe is the same thing as how much vertical head a pump can pull - it is distance dependant when horsepower remains constant.
In the end if we are talking about smoking temperatures without any type of stoker system four 3/4" exhaust holes are enough. If you might want to cook hotter than 350 then I would say you would need to add additional intake and exhaust.

tsanchez 02-14-2013 10:51 AM

A 2 inch hole has an area of 3.14 square inches
8-1/2" holes have an area of 1.57 square inches
4-3/4" holes have an area of 1.76 square inches
3-3/4 holes have an area of 1.32 square inches


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