Pitmaster's EDICT - If you are new to ribs... perhaps you should read these results about Hot and Fast
Results of Snapshot Polling on Hot and Fast and Low and Slow comparisons.
Once again... this is not a case that Hot and Fast Ribs are better than Low and slow... but a strong case you should start there!
Okay this was a snapshot and only 21 votes will be considered. Originally 28 voted but you had to have tried to smoke BOTH styles. Clearly 27 tried low and slow and not Hot and fast and 1 actually had only done a hot and fast rib cook... the 7 that did not do both however, felt compelled to make other comparisons to it probably because they did not read the thread first. No big deal.. I will remove their other data. Please do not feel insulted.
Here is what we can garner from the poll. I will conclude what that means later.
At the time of this poll 21 of you had cooked BOTH racks Below 250 (L&S) and above 270 (H&F). I made an area in between not count in case someone felt there was a disparity between the actual temp and the term. Doesn't matter what you call it, a temp of 270 and above is a departure from 250 and below.
Here are the contributors who did both... so if you look at the linked poll, you will know why I did not count a vote.
"Bone to Bark" BBQ , BGBarracus, bigabyte, Bludawg, Boshizzle, dadsr4, deguerre, Gore, hamiltont, imott, jaestar, Jaskew82, jckposter, Lake Dogs, Myrdhyn, Pitmaster T, porkingINpublic, R2Egg2Q, Rover24, Still Smokin, Wampus
18 of the 21 learned how to cook low and slow first.
1 learned Hot and Fast first - deguerre.
Normally I would count myself in but at the time I worked for Kreuz I hated ribs but loved Brisket so I cannot say I ever noticed how quick they did ribs. Of course I for some reason forgot all my hot and fast knowledge when I decided to make bbq myself years ago.
13 of the 21 said they nailed low and slow ribs within three tries. These people are liars. But I won't count off for that. I am not even in this group. Of course when I was doing this there was no internet.
20 seemed to nail a hot and fast rack within three tries.WOW... think about that Newbees! Or suckbees... those that secretly know their ribs suck a little or even a lot. Not what you admit to... but when you sleep at night... or don't you know you suck.
Only 2 of you that had tried both found that nailing Low and Slow ribs was easier than hot and fast attempts.
16 of you thought that it was easier to nail hot and fast. I guess Wampus fell asleep cuz he didn't vote either way on that.
5 of us say it took us more than five tries to get a decent low and slow... these are the truthful people. LOL
Nobody took more than 5 tries to master the hot and fast process. So they think.
3 never seemed to master the low and slow process and had better luck with hot and fast while 1 of you had better luck with low and slow.
This is kind of a tricky question.... many of us have mastered low and slow, tried hot and fast and still prefer it. You will notice many of the folk (20) that voted in the “nailed hot and fast within 3 tries” are not in this group... I can assume because they mastered low and slow too. These are obviously men that can go both ways. NTTAWWT.
3 felt the modifications and adjustments to a low and slow cook were extensive to get a good rack.
No one thought that is was much a bother to get a good rack of Hot and Fast Ribs (THINK ABOUT THAT - No ONE!)
3 thought that they only needed to make minor adjustments to a rack of low and slow ribs.
14 thought adjustments to hot and fast ribs were minor.VERY INTERESTING!!!
10 have given up on low and slow ribs <-----
while no one that has tried both ever gave up on Hot and fast.
8 of us have since merged elements of low and slow ribs with hot and fast.So it seems even for those that conclude that low and slow is the way... it may be a good idea to do hot and fast and merge something you like.
Although technically the last question was another trick question... for saying yes essentially meant you had never done a rack of hot and fast ribs.... it is interesting of of you who tried to participate liked hot and fast brisket.
So what are my conclusions.
My conclusion is once again.... if you want to make a good set of ribs, and you are a novice, want to save money and feel good about yourself; or if you sick at low and slow and are tired of wasting money.... you should do your first ribs at 270 or above.
This does not mean they are superior..... nor does it mean you can't deviate... but from the data you will get a product closer to exceptional than with low and slow your first few times.
Are you ready to win the Jack? No. Will you maybe get a walk... hey maybe if you have tasted all the crappy ribs out there. Hot and fast is the quickest way from A to B without getting all upset about the Q. Furthermore, according to the overwhelming numbers here, where most of us learned low and slow first; you will have better luck getting an exceptional to good rack of rib at 270 and above and with less hassle.
So once again... this is the EDICT! That if you want to impress probably 95 percent of the mortals (non-competition people) and maybe 70 percent of the immortals (those if us that live BBQ) --- I said impress, not be Myron Mixon first trip out.... I would seriously consider the EDICT because you will save time... and if you tweak a little at a time... you will get to your personal zenith sooner – then move on to the next meat. And with meat prices like they are... remember many of us started Qing when meat was a third of what it is now... you are making some good sense that way.
In short... if you want to actually master low and slow (under 250)..... well... you even would be saving time to start hot and fast (above 270) and tweak you way down to below 250 than actually starting at 225 and keep working at it in that realm.
This is especially essential for the novice.
Sample Poll Located here
Snapshot Below. Poll may seem different when visited now.
REMEMBER only those who had tried BOTH methods are considered so this is why the numbers are different.
I have cooked ribs low and slow. <25028 93.33%
I have cooked ribs hot and fast. 270>22 73.33%
I first learned to cook Ribs in the low and slow style <25025 83.33%
I first learned to cook ribs in the hot and fast style 270> 1 3.33%
I succeeded in cooking a rack of l and s ribs that was good to exceptional within 3 tries 15 50.00%
I succeeded in cooking a rack of h and f s ribs that was good to exceptional within 3 tries. 21 70.00%
I found it easier to cook a rack of ribs that were good to exceptional using the low and slow style. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar2-l.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/polls/bar2.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar2-r.gif 3 10.00%
I found it easier to cook a rack of ribs that were good to exceptional using the h and F style. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar3-l.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/polls/bar3.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar3-r.gif 18 60.00%
It took me over five tries to master the low and slow process. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar4-l.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/polls/bar4.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar4-r.gif 5 16.67%
It took me over five tries to master the hot and fast process. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar5-l.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/polls/bar5.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar5-r.gif 0 0%
I still never seem to master the low and slow process but have better luck with hot and fast. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar6-l.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/polls/bar6.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar6-r.gif 3 10.00%
I still never seem to master the hot and fast process but have better luck with low and slow. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar1-l.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/polls/bar1.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar1-r.gif 1 3.33%
The adjustments to my low and slow cooks to make a good to exceptional rack of ribs were extensive. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar2-l.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/polls/bar2.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar2-r.gif 3 10.00%
The adjustments to my hot and fast cooks to make a good to exceptional rack of ribs were extensive. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar3-l.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/polls/bar3.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar3-r.gif 0 0%
The adjustments to my low and slow cooks were minor to arrive at a quality product. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar4-l.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/polls/bar4.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar4-r.gif 5 16.67%
The adjustments to my hot and fast cooks were minor to arrive at a quality product. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar5-l.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/polls/bar5.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar5-r.gif 16 53.33%
I gave up on low and slow for ribs. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar6-l.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/polls/bar6.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar6-r.gif 12 40.00%
I gave up on hot and fast for ribs. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar1-l.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/polls/bar1.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar1-r.gif 1 3.33%
I have merged elements of hot and fast woth low and slow ribs. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar2-l.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/polls/bar2.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar2-r.gif 8 26.67%
I have never tried hot and fast on ribs but have on brisket and like the results. http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar3-l.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/images/polls/bar3.gifhttp://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/im...lls/bar3-r.gif 1 3.33%
Thanks for sharing!
By the way... the line about getting to a good brisket in three shots that you are liars... its a ****ing joke.... I can't believe I had to explain that. I am just jealous because my ride down the low and slow death march took more like 5 times before I had a decent packer.... the other 4 or so I recall finishing in the oven....after 12 hours... LOL then they were okay. LOL
If you were an Ayatollah, you could declare a fatwa.
Interesting that this came up now. The other day, I trimmed out a pork belly to make bacon. Not having any thing thawed for dinner, I opted to cook the ribs that I took off the belly. Already being 3:30, I knew that they would have to get cooked hotter to have them done at a decent time to serve for dinner. The ribs weighed 2 1/2 lbs and were cooked at around 300* dome temp on my Weber kettle. These were hands down the best ribs I ever cooked and I will be using this tecnique in my next comp. Here are the results:
"1 learned Hot and Fast first - deguerre."
I credit trying hot and fast first to Donnie and his tutorial. At the time, I was pretty new to smoking, so I guess I'm in the target audience:becky:. I believe this EDICT has great merit.:thumb:
Here's the thing.......
I didn't vote on which was easier to NAIL because I wasn't sure that (for me) there was a winner. I also think "nailed" or "mastered" is very relative. I consider cooking a rack of ribs that are not only edible, but taste good, to be a success. Especially if it's only the first or second time out. I've cooked MANY a rack of ribs and still don't know if I'd say I've mastered them. I make dang good ribs, but "master"? As I said....it's a relative term.
As for which is easier to "master".....I don't think it's real difficult for either method. If you understand the principals of BBQ and can follow general directions, you'll get it done satisfactorily. The very first time I tried to cook ribs, I did a 3-2-1 sort of thing and they ended up way too soft. They were really good, but falling off the bone. Ruined? Heck no. Mastered? Naaa. Those were low n slow. Second time out.....less time in foil.....ended up GREAT!
As far as HNF.....the first time out I was trying to see if I could cook ribs at 300 with no foil since I had to cook 24 racks of ribs for a party the next weekend. I found out that I could indeed. Mastered? Wouldn't say so, but they came out fine on the first try.
I'm curious to see where this goes, but I have to say it still seems relative to me and a matter of personal opinion. What is the perfect rack of ribs for one person may be dogfood for the next. Now, we have to assume that most folks who have cooked both HNF and LNS and done each a few times know the difference between good ribs and bad ribs, but still......"mastered"?
ok... I have read the poll and the edict and want to try this method. The edict states that a 200 degree smoke for 1-2 hours then increase the temps to approx 270.
so my newbie questions are:
how long approx at 270 degrees?
do you still foil with liquid and if so for how long (assume its still at the 270 temp)?
and after finishing with mop or sauce do you wrap and put in a cooler (and for how long)?
I am basing this on the L&S method knowing that it might be more than a time based difference between the H&F and L&S methods
like I said i am a newbie but want to try this method
thanks for any help you can offer
that is for brisket good sir.
wampus..... i took out the factor of peer judgement because there was no way of knowing that online. I only wanted to know about the cook's perception. Some are real hard on themselves... some are not. Then there's me when I was doing low and slow ribs... sure I nailed it on like 4, 5, or 6... but then, LOL I screwed up a bunch after that,,, then got better....
Also.... ever had a rack of ribs you thought could have been better... only to go off on some temp or taste tangent and not get back to that rack of ribs... maybe you forgot what you did... and that rack all the sudden you realized you nailed.
When I cook briskets by 50 or 60 units.. I always see a winner I wished I had at some bbq pageant 20 years ago... I always say.... there it is... MY crew says, what? That's the brisket or rack I was looking for at the 1991 Taylor International. Damn!
I think your assessment falls in line with many here.... you had some difficulty with L and slow.. not much... then almost none with hot and fast.
Once again... and maybe because I write so damn much people don't see it, this is NOT an endorsement of and end... but one hell of an endorsement of a beginning.
Okay... I have spares in the fridge that I was planning on Q'ing today on my 22" OTG. If I decide to give HNF a try (on purpose this time) where do you recommend I begin?
To be honest, I hadn't tried low n slow ribs on a smoker until this year. I think I was either lucky on my second attempt or my experience at cooking meats of all kinds and different techniques for 45 years and having done the hot n fast helped. Oh, and I was probably smashed too. Well, more than probably. They were still very good the next day though.
WHO IS THE EXPERT ON SMALL GRILL HOT AND FAST???? I sure aint. Seriously! Help how this Erinku brethren please!
I can't remember... was it gary?
I have a problem with Hot n' Fast on my Cookshack Smokette 008. The dial only goes to 250*
i bet there is a software fix.... but i would not go through the trouble... that thing hermetically seals the ****...
hey... uh... firemarshall visit u much?
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