Knives, a confusing conundrum
 

So I've decided I want, no, need at least one knife that wants purchased at the same place you can get your oil changed, pick up a pair of cheap jeans, a new TV and groceries. Yeah, you all know where I'm talking about.

So, I set myself a $50 limit, did a LOT of reading here and other place and the Victorinox seems to be a leading contender, especially for the price. I attend art school and asked a few of the culinary students what knives they use and the consensus was that most use what ever they get in their "kit" and wait until they graduate before getting anything decent it also appears the kits have changed based on whatever is cheapest for the school to get.

For usage, I smoke mostly butts and ribs (spare, St. Louis and baby back) but I also like to prepare some of my meals with fresh peppers and onions so I'd like something that can also cut through the larger peppers with ease. As far as grilling, I do chicken, burgers, steaks, hot dogs, the general grilling items as well as corn and veggies.

Then, The other day I decided to stop by Bed, Bath and Beyond the other day since it was on my way Home from school. I went to their cutlery section to put my grubby paws on some. No Victorinox, but they did have Calphalon, Wüstof and J.A. Henckels. After Handling them, I quickly ruled the Calphalon out. I really like the Henckels and as I was explaining to the nice young man who worked there, he suggested a Santoku over the 8" chefs. I gotta admit that I like the way it felt in my hand.

So, if you're still with me, based on what I stated my intended uses are I have a couple of questions:
Would a Chefs be better than a Santoku for the kind of cutting I need to do?
Is the quality and longevity of the Henckles enough to justify the price difference in comparison to the Victorinox?

I just got a knife set for christmas and it has one of those Sankou or whatever you call it knife in it

Its ok, but I much prefer the rocking motion of my trusty old chefs knife.

I have often heard that if you only have 1 single knife, the 8 inch chefs knife is the one... with that being said, I have many.

Santoku is an excellent all rounder, designed for that purpose, basically for the housewives of Japan.
It will do vegetables with ease and the meat jobs.
Personally I would go with a chefs 8" or 10 " myself, because it can do most anything and you will gain your skill levels with it.
HenCkels make some high end quality knives, but I don't know which level you have looked at or the price, so I don't know if you could buy better for your buck.

I will say, when it comes to knives, it is ALWAYS worth spending to get a higher quality.
It saves you money, you have a more pleasurable life and care for them and you will be passing them down .
By cheap, replace. Repeat.

I like my Henckels Chef knife and use it almost as much as the utility but the Granton edge on the Santoku is nice for slicing veggies. I ended up going for the drop forged models and love the edge they hold.

Get the Victorinox 8" Chefs knife and the Victorinox boning knife as well.

The boning knife is razor sharp and is really useful for trimming up pork butts given the size, flexibility and sharpness of the blade.

The chefs knife relatively inexpensive, holds its edge really well and the nonslip handle is great when your hands are messy.

For $50 you could get both the Victorinox chef knife and a 5" or 6" boning knife... I have both (plus a 12" cimeter) and they all serve me well. I have also noted a number of posts in "knife" threads from professional butchers about Victorinox blades and how much they like them considering how much they use them on a daily basis. :thumb:

Yeah... What kevin said while I was in the middle composing my opinion. :mrgreen:

I appreciate every response. I am one of those of the mindset; buy once, cry once so I don't mind spending the $$ on a Henckles but if the advantage isn't there to spend the extra, I'd rather not.

I have a Victornox 6" semi stiff boning knife, my most reached for is a Messiermeister 7 " santoku and a 5" utility.

Knive
 

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/hencke...-knife-p125202

I purchased this six inch for 72.00 at bed bath and beyond. Nice knife, with good balance for me.

Victorinox and Dexter are good quality, lower price point. Then you get into the middle of the road about 100$ henkle range. If you go nuts like me you will have a collection of Shuns $200-450

If it helps, Cooks Illustrated has done multiple tests over the years and the Victorinox always come out on top over the pricier brands.

From their most recent test:

During the past 20 years, we’ve conducted five chef’s knife evaluations. Those tests have covered dozens of blades in styles ranging from traditional, to innovative, to hybrid knives combining Western and Asian features. And at the end of every test, we’ve told the same story: One bargain knife has typically trounced the competition—including knives costing 10 times its price tag.

....

About the winner of the tests (the Victorinox Chefs knife)

Still the best—and a bargain—after 20 years, this knife’s “super-sharp” blade was “silent” and “smooth,” even as it cut through tough squash, and it retained its edge after weeks of testing. Its textured grip felt secure for a wide range of hand sizes, and thanks to its gently rounded edges and the soft, hand-polished top spine, we could comfortably choke up on the knife for “precise,” “effortless” cuts.

I agree with the quality of J. A. Henckels, if you don't want to spend that much, try a Wustof..

If you have a Restaurant Equippers store you can get Henckels Wustof Knives..

J.A. Henckels

Wustof Knives

Maybe I'm missing out but I always just use the cheap white handled knives you get at Sam's. They're so cheap I just use them like they're disposable lol

I've become a fan of buying knives at the restaurant supply store. Better grips, nice sharp blades, and cheap. Downside is they look like they belong in a restaurant kitchen instead of a showroom. But hey, they work great.

I have some santokus and personally don't prefer them. Give me a heavy chef's knife any day as a go-to blade. For BBQ, I've bought specialty stuff--a 10" scimitar and 6" boning knife for general carving of raw meats, a 4" utility for close-in work on pockets of fat, and a 12" granton edge slicer for slicing briskets. Turns out the tools that butchers use really are the right tools for the job when it comes to cutting big hunks of meat.

When I am at home, I use my Japanese Shun knives. They stay in the home. When I am catering or outdoors I use the Victorinox knives with the fibrox handles. They hold a decent edge, easy to grip with messy hands and are cheap enough that if it gets dropped or banged around, I don't cringe. Just remember to properly hone the blade to keep the edge nice before each use and it will last a long time between sharpening.

Wustof, Henckel, Victornox, they are all good knives be careful you are getting what you think knives require a lot of research all of these company's make both stamped and
forged knives the stamped ones are 1/3 the price.
I chose Dexter Russell because they are American made.
The knife needs to be stain free carbon steel for resharpening stainless steel
cannot not be resharpened well, I like a diamond coated butcher steel to keep blades sharp Dexter also makes forged knives I have 8" chefs Connissure model for looking at I use their 9" santuko with granton edge V-lo model for my go to and a thin blade 6" boning
knife V-lo for most of my prep work they also have 12" granton edge slicer thats wonderful on brisket slicing

I have a Henckel set that includes a Santoku, and although it is great for chopping vegs and cheese, if I could only have one knife from the set it would be the 8" chefs knife.

My advice would be to go with the best quality Chefs knife you can afford, then when you are ready buy a decent set that includes the rest.

This is the newer version of the knife set I currently own and am quite happy with it.
http://www.costco.ca/J.A.-Henckels-1...100026439.html

I also have a Wusthof Chef 8" Knife, and notice no difference between the Henckel, other than the Wusthof is a tad heavier.

I use my santuko I bet 10:1 over my chefs. Both Wustoff Classics.

FYI, Take the ability to handle dish washers into factor if you have one. Ive busted the handle on my santuko classic in there.

No matter what grade of a knife you go with, a sharp knife is always better. If your really looking at a BBQ knife, heavy usage knife, look at the victinox, F Dicks, Kershaw Filet Knives. A Shun is no good if your afraid to drop it or leave it in a tub for a month.

IMHO your ability to sharpen a knife is just as it important, if not even more important than the knife itself. I have a bunch of cheap Chinese cleavers that I've put edges on that will shave arm hair and the knives cost no more than £10 each

Yep, yep & yep! When my son went through his first agriculture undergraduate degree then his DVM, he carried both in the meats & large animal anatomy labs and did more butchering in a year than most of us would do in a lifetime. The Victorinox 8" boning and chef's knives were sharpened daily and stood up to VERY heavy use, I still have them in my arsenal, they still sharpen well and hold a good edge and I have bought a few more, they are great for he price.

I hate to admit it, but my go to is a cheep flimsy "KIWI". :tape:
(The 11" pointy end. http://www.wokshop.com/HTML/products...wi-knives.html )

(But then again, I am also addicted to ol' hickory knives.):heh:

Buy the 8 inch Victorinox Chef's Knife, the Victorinox boning knife and the Victornix paring knife.. that's all you need. The Chef's knife is sharp enough to cut bread--no need for bread knife. Oh and you need a honing steel / knife sharpener.

The 8" Chef knife is the best all around choice. It will handle better and with some skill, do far more than a Santoku. The Santoku is a compromise knife designed in Japan to replace competently, several specialist knives.

The Henckels at BB&B is their mid-grade knife. Worth what you'll pay. I have a 10" Decter-Russel Sani-safe, my preferred workhorse travel knife that I keep to protect my better knife from renter. If you really are a spend once guy, I consider Wusthof or Messermeister the better western style knives. They are far better than any listed so far. Much better than Victorinox or DR. But 2x cost

I researched for a long time before I bought my complete set of Henckel knives, and I use the heck out of them every single day. They are very nice. But if I had it to do over again? I'd probably get either the Dexter Russells or the Victorinox, depending on what was available. The DRs would be my first choice.

Department of redundancy Department :heh:

I've found this set on Amazon and have a prime account which is nice for free 2 day shipping. Would the slicer be an okay alternative to the boning knife for immediate use?
Victorinox 3-Piece Chef's Set

I looked hard at the DR knives and am still considering them. This is the one I was looking at but Amazon doesn't have a lot of information listed on them.
Dexter Russell Professional Forged Chef's Knife

I caught that after I posted it from my iPad sitting at lunch with my two sons under two. It wasn't worth fixing.

http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Swiss-Classic-Chefs-Knife/dp/B0061SWV8Y/ref=sr_1_2?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1390010363&sr=1-2&keywords=victorinox+8%22

http://www.amazon.com/Swiss-Army-Bra...inox+vegetable

If you want to go cheap. I wouldn't get the set.
I'd buy these, they will cover most kitchen duties.
The little victorinox paring is used daily by me, peeling, deveining shrimp, coring, many uses, a nifty knife, even for tomatoes.

Cooks Illustrated, I'm not sure what the deal is .... I like and own Victorinox knives and have done so for decades, they are great bang for the buck.
They may even be better than some common higher end western knives, but comparing them to any of my good knives is just absurd.
Like comparing a Ford Pinto to a Audi RS8 or a Veyyron.

A ridiculous notion in every way .
I let friends drive the Pinto's.:wink:

Now, about boning knives, looks like you can buy one for around $20 from Victorinox.
Again, personal, but I adore the Japanese design for these tasks and would never use a western one again.
That will cost you tho.

The busiest knife in my kitchen is an Ecko Eterna 10" chef. Knife of the week at the grocery store 35 years ago. It has a fat oak handle that fits my (large) hand. Whenever I use an 8" chef, I wish I had the 10". I know people like the Santoku knives, but they are not for me.

I also use a Chicago Cutlery 62S boning/filet knife quite a bit. 5" blade, very strong, good for boning and trimming. Got it 35 years ago also. This one has a fat handle also.

I probably spent $20 altogether on the two. Heavy strong blades, good balance, comfortable handles that don't wear out my hand. Good enough for me.

Very good thread so far, and obviously everyone has their own preference on knives. I have a set of lower-priced Henckels, and a forged Henckels santoku I use for chopping that seems to do the job. Based on threads here previously, on other sites, and on Amazon reviews, I bought the Victorinox 6-Inch flexible boning knife (Amazon: 47513), and I have to agree with previous posters, for $30 it is one heck of a knife for things like trimming brisket fat. It's exceptionally sharp and flexible, and is now my go-to knife for prepping meat. It's not going to win any awards for beauty, and if something happens to it, at least I didn't have to remortgage the house for it (...Shun, anyone?...), but if you want a razor sharp knife that will make your life easier when trimming/cutting meat, that's the one.

I'll take just one very high quality chef's knife over an equally priced 10-piece set any day. My home kitchen only includes three knives that ever get used these days:

MAC Ultimate Series 9.25" chef's knife (does 90% of the work)
Shun DM0700 3.5" paring knife
Wusthof 10" serrated knife

Then sharpening stones and a MAC black ceramic honing rod.

In total, $600+ for such a small kit seems like a lot. But when you use them daily and want stuff that holds an amazing edge, feels good in the hand, and can last a lifetime, it's worth every penny.

That being said, I keep the restaurant stocked with an assortment of Victorinox and Dexter knives. I save the good stuff for home since knives get abused in a restaurant setting.

My go to knife for almost anything is the henkels professional S 31220-180. It's an 8" santoku, feels more like a surgical tool to me than a knife.

Also have the 8" henckels international 31161-200 chefs knife and it primarily used to make larger cuts manageable before switching to the santoku.

I noticed when doing large prep that the lighter santoku is much easier on the hand Aswell.

I use my 12" chefs more than anything. I have a 6" santoku for veggies and small stuff, but I grab the chefs knife more and more. Having a 6" boning knife made at the moment by this shop. Same place my other ones are made. http://redrocktools.weebly.com/kitchen.html

two sons under two ... redundancy comes natural:roll:

On a serious note I fell for a kin sale on Cutco, but I really love the handy slicer for nearly everything. Sliced up a 1 lb frozen chub of sausage, just this am, as if it were butter. I was impressed again. They are available on fleabay at about $80. Which is better than the kin price!:mad:

Henckels make great knives, but they also have a variety of price levels, you can probably guess the difference why. Victorinox make great knives also, but dont cost as much. You can find a Victorinox or Forshner at any restaurant supply store, as well as Henckels too, and can compare the feel. Personally as a chef, I dont own a chef's knife. I have 2 Santokus and a chinese clever. Ask anybody in the business and carpal tunnel is very prevalent in kitchens, one of the reasons is improperly using a chef's knife because of its rocking motion. Most people dont use it properly and then get carpal tunnel. A Santoku doesnt use the rocking motion, rather a back and forth motion that causes less stress on the wrist and easier to pick up with out specific training and practice. I can do anything with my Santoku that I could with a chef's knife.

If I had my time over, I'd go with a cleaver.
I had 6 chooks to do into spat chocked and boned and by the time I was doing the third with the Pian knife, everyone had gathered around the table gasping.
Apparently it's good party entertainment too!:laugh:

I prefer my Shun's over anything else that I have. The handle shape fits my hand comfortably and they are razor sharp!

So I've been looking and comparing and then this morning DVOR decided for me. For those unfamiliar, DVOR is a site owned by Optics Planet that does closeout deals. Typically this involves some kind of optics for rifles or pistols (or both) and then some other stuff usually. Today they had Victorinox knives. I scored a 10" Chefs knife for $32 and a utility set (2 3" pairing and a 4" utility) for $11. I didn't see the 6" curved semi-stiff boning the first time and they only reserve and item in your cart for 15min so I rushed to get checked out as that was the only 10" they had. Opted for it since it was cheaper than the 8" on Amazon. I had a $10 credit from being there over a year and my birthday. Still debating on the 12" round tip, graton edge slicing knife.

Well the 6" semi-stiff boning knife is a really good knife in my opinion.
Only Victornivox knives I have are the 12" scimitar and the semi-stiff boning knife, and I use both of them quite a bit for meat prep work.

I've never got myself a slicing knife, I just use my Gyuto.

Sams club has stupid sharp, high carbon, dish washer safe knifes, dirt cheap, other then my mundial those are my go to knives.

http://www.amazon.com/Dexter-Russell...sell+8%22+chef

This is the same model, except I use a 10", in my kitchen. It is a great workhorse knife. The one you linked to, in theory, has a superior blade and the comfort handle. I didn't like the handle so never gave it a second look. This is not my go to knife, I have a whole slew, literally, almost three knife blocks worth of knives to use, that are far better than the Dexter Russel, but, not reasonably useful. The D-R is just a great, cheap knife.

A note about forged, versus stamped. For almost all knives that are under $100 each, the blades are never hit with a hammer. Most forged knives are stamped, then the blank is machine forged two more times, using pressure, not heat. They are only marginally better than a quality stamped knife. This is why even Henckels and Wusthof have forged knives that are entry level priced.

What do you do for a boning knife? I'd have that over a 10" serrated knife myself. Because you can cut bread with a chef's knife fine--if you keep it razor sharp.

I can use my Chef's knife for boning a chicken just fine, but, I use a paring knife. It works fine as well. I have an old 5.5" Wusthof paring knife, with a re-worked edge, that is an excellent boning knife.

I have a 6 pc. set of Henckels 4 star that were given to me by a friend when I retired from the Air Force in 2002 as a retirement gift. They hold an edge well as long as I use the steel before each use.

I generally sharpen them about twice a year the old fashioned way, on a tri hone. Usually just need the medium and fine stones.

I agree with the ones who say the 8" chef's knife is the most used of the six. The little paring knife is probably the second most used.

I also have a cheap Faberware santoku from Wally World that I mainly bought to see if I want a good one... Probably not, I mainly just use it for veggies and I can do that with the chefs knife also.

My steak knives are Wustof because I found a set on sale online. They are OK but I like the Henckels better.

Buy the best you can afford and don't look back... Also, after you buy, quit shopping because you will find the same knives cheaper and just get pissed...

VR,
Harold

Agreed. These are the knives I use as well. In my opinion, best knives to use at a decent price.

I have a full set of Wustof's and love them . I have 2 of the I think 10 inch chef , that is my go to knife the 8 is just a little small after using the 10 . The quality is outstanding slide it a couple of times across the steal and razor sharp . Look around there are different handle configurations to choose from . I preferred the Grand Prix . I have from pairing , boning , scalloped slicers , I don't care if it is a strawberry or prime rib I grab the Big Chef's . ps the best money spent

I looked all over Amazon for those and din't see them. Wish I would have because that's a good price!

I'm still pulling Reserve duty at Moody (2W0X1). Thank you for your service! I really liked the Henckels I had my hands on. That will probably be what I ultimately end up with.

Yeah, that made a big impact on me while looking.

Okay, so I've ordered the 10" Chef's knife (47521) and some pairing knives. I can still get the 8" Chef's knife (47520) for $26 shipped. Since I've already ordered something today and paid for shipping, anything else I order the rest of the day ships free. I'm also considering the 6" Semi-Stiff Boning knife (47515) for $14.75.

Thoughts on those two?