Plastice Wrap on Pork and Brisket
 

I have question on using plastic wrap on meat. What brand do you use when using plastic wrap as the initial wrap, followed by aluminum foil. Will any brand work or is there a particular kind I should buy. My biggest fear is having the plastic melt to the meat! Advise on this topic is much appreciated!

I just wrap in foil. Seems to work fine.

I do not use plastic wrap. Once proper internal temp is reached, I wrap in foil, cooler and proceed from there.

I currently use foil only. I want to start using plastic wrap and see what it does. Seems lots of competitors use it.

You might want to read this thread!

the only time I use cling wrap is when I first do the rub and refrigerate, remove put on cooker and only foil when done.

I think what you are looking for is food service wrap rather than " saran wrap". I've seen it at Sam's, thought about trying it myself. I believe it has different temp ranges than saran. I've been to several BBQ places that use it to wrap meat kept in a warmer.

Have seen some teams use it....
Looked like more of a hassle than it was worth..:roll:

i was suprised to find that regular old saran did not melt at some pretty high temps (under foil). try it on something small to test it out.

phil

You should consider the health risk from chemical leaching
http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar...ve-dioxin2.htm

Thanks for the link Mark:mrgreen:

Yep- Possible health hazard, right up there with eating meat that's been chared or cooked in smoke :roll:

Unless the mfg approves the use of thier product for applications such as this, I'd recommend against it. But WTF; maybe you know better?

Yes - As a group, we are well known for following instructions and directions :wink:

Quite possibly, smoking with plastic wrap is the dummest idea since using kitty litter in the water pan.

my kirklands wrap(Costco) sez don't microwave with fat or sugar contact and no conventional oven. Nothing about smoker LOL

Is that your Ph.D. (honorary) Bovine $hitology or your ME talking:confused: What makes it so stupid. Drawing an analogy to the uncertain results from the article you posted? Where's the comparison between the high energy environment in a microwave and the relativly low energy environment in a smoker? Where's the science.

The idea is not to smoke with plastic. The idea is when you wrap your meat, as alot of people do, and you use plastic, will it melt. I see teams do it all the time and all I am asking is what type of wrap do they use. I do not want to know if it is stupid, dumd, idiotic. What I want to know is what kind of wrap peoiple are using. If you can not answer that question please stay out! Thank You!

Good question - I typically use the the Kirkland brand from COSTCO.

http://plumgoodfood.com/images/image...ndFoodWrap.jpg

It doesnt even have to melt for there to be chemical leaching. I don't think you have to have an advanced degree in chemical engineering to understand that.

I 'd say your smoker is like an oven. I also know something about the variable chemical properties of plastic wrap and how certain chemicals can migrate out of the wrap and into the food under certain conditions. I would bet that kirklands knows it too and wants to avoid being sued over it.

And lets not overlook the obvious way plastic wrap would inhibit smoke rings; which should be enough of a reason in itself to reject the idea.

What are the variable conditions, and what does inhibiting my smoke ring have to do with it. I inhibit my smoke ring enough without having to involve plastic wrap. I don't cook in wrap, and I don't think most folks here who are planning on cooking in wrap would wrap from the beginning anyway. Sounds like the wrap when other might foil. What i am likily to do is throw something wrapped into the smoke or oven (at around 200* for the oven) to reheat.

I have seen many pros double/triple wrap a brisket in food service wrap and then wrap it in foil also. In fact, i was taught this technique in several cooking classes. I personally only tried it once, and after wrestling with the wrap and having it stick to itself i gave up and will use only foil when needed.

There are wraps out there designed for oven use. Similar to the roasting bags for tukeys and the like. I cannot remember the brand I had(Yellow and blue box), but the label clearly said its good to 300 degrees in the oven. I think if you just check the labels, you'll find one you can experiment with.

Also, the plastic wraps you have seen used are likely much thicker than the regular saran wrap u get in the supermarket for covering your leftovers.



Re: The leaching issue.. who knows.. if its graded as food safe up to 300+ degrees, I would use it. I also marinade stuff in plastic bags that have no rating as food safe and Im not dead yet. In either case, thats a topic for a different thread.

Good point. The acids in the marinades we use would surely eat away parts of the plastic if it wasn't safe.

WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!

Me? Chokin' on a rib bone... :biggrin:

Here's the original question:

I have question on using plastic wrap on meat. What brand do you use when using plastic wrap as the initial wrap, followed by aluminum foil. Will any brand work or is there a particular kind I should buy. My biggest fear is having the plastic melt to the meat! Advise on this topic is much appreciated!

If the plastic is formulated for 300 F. ovens, fine. If it isn't, well, you've been warned. Anyway, I'll drop my advice to consider there may be consequences and will leave it up to Darwin.. But if you're interested, google "endocrine disruptors" and/or "phthalates."

Yes, phthalates bad - the major plastic wrap companies do not use phtalates in their plastic wraps (or so they say). PAH's yes (could be bad, depends on their structure), phthalates no.

If you need to wrap in plastic, use the Reynolds brand oven bags. They will not melt under high heat. I used to use them all the time.

Got this from Saran Wrap...

Thank you for your email regarding the safety of wrapping hot brisket in Saran™ brand plastic film

The softening point of Saran™ brand plastic film with Cling Plus is 195°F. Please keep in mind that foods higher in fats or sugars heat up quickly and retain heat longer than other foods.

We recommend you call our Product Safety Department at 1-866-231-5406. They will be able to address your addition questions.

Personally, I believe there are a gazillion other things that we KNOW causes cancer, that this one thing doesn't scare me, in the least.
Wrap on, Brother, wrap on!:mrgreen:

I know several teams which cook in film rather than foil. It will not melt at bbq temps. It seems to work well.

I hear your marinade also doubles as a heavy-duty floor cleaning solvent.

While there is some good discussion on the safety of plastic wrap, the OP is wanting to know what brands to try. Let's just get thaty out of the way and then the debate can go on, or I can split into the food safety section. Think I will do that in a few minutes.

I wrap with plastic then foil till I am ready to put in the smoker. If I want to wrap the food wjhil in thew smoker I only use foil. Personally I hate plastic wrap but I still use it

I wrap in plastic and foil overnight after rubbing down a brisket, but will wrap in foil only once the meat is cooking. I use the plastic wrap from Sam's and the wide "commercial" foil from there as well.

I found that wrapping with Reynolds wrap and then alluminum foil keeps the butt from drying out during the cooling process.I have also reheated the next day for a couple of hours in the wrap and then pulled it apart sems to really be a lot moister than not wrapping it at all.

We only use commerical grade food film.
Rub it wrap it plastic.
Cook it wrap it with plastic and it holds heat and continues to cook.
Let it cool wrap it in plastic and reheat it up to 200 degrees, and it holds jucies.

Jon - I think the key is that you don't want to use a "residential" 'seran', 'glad', etc. wrap. You want to use a foodservice film. One that is rated to the heat level you want. Depending on how much fat you leave on your meat, or sugar is in your rub (and how thick you put it on)... will help drive to what temp you can take your cooker and be successful.

We played with the Sam's Film, and I believe 265 degrees was it's limitation.

CostCo and Sam's both sell a "Foodservice Film", I believe Sam's also sells a "catering film". The Catering Film may be more of a cling wrap for going on steam trays; I have not tried it. I have not used any films in contest cooking, but we have used it before when cooking large quantities.

I wrapped butts for the first time last night. Smoked until they hit 140, plastic wrap then foil and back onto the smoker at 225 until them were 190+. My understanding was that all was good as long as the temps were under 265.

Feedback was that they were super tender and moist. I can get that taking them to 205 and I don't think the time was significantly different. The big advantage I saw was the ability to do different finishes on all of the butts pretty easily.

Would have been nice to have been able to pull them but it was cook, toss in a cooler and deliver wrapped so.....

Yes read it and more... This Bullchit about plastic WRAP leaching dioxin into food has got to end.

No one seems to talk about the evidence of aluminum's link to Alzheimers that is more researched and credible.

Plastic wrap being harmful is a huge and stupid urban legend that has little merit.

Plastic wrap is safe... the evidence of aluminum's link to Alzheimers is more researched and credible.

Pay no matter to the fact I use Butcher PAPER to wrap...

There is also evidence of aluminum's link to Alzheimers which is more researched and credible.

All this safety being discussed among a body of cookers that are propagating a huge health risk just from the meat itself is silly as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark (Post 604205) Quite possibly, smoking with plastic wrap is the dummest idea since using kitty litter in the water pan.

And that my friends is the Strawman Fallacy.

Brilliant. So if the poster said boiling the meat after it has been wrapped in plastic also negates the whole premise that hot meat can be safely wrapped in plastic and rewarmed or cooked in the plastic.

As far as using plastic wrap to cook food... specifically poaching. The french and neo-franco chefs have been poaching cigars of chicken and what not in plastic wrap for more than 30 years so it is an acceptable method of making a Gallentine for most people in the culinary industry.

To review, professional plastic wrap to hold meat, even in a properly maintained pit; Or more exactly a cambro, refrigertator and a properly heated oven or steam oven, are all exceptable means of holding the meat and preserving it as closed to its original state as possible.

Trying to SMOKE a piece of meat (not cooking it to completion as the poster asked about) is in fact silly... but alas, not really the point here.

I see this thread was resurrected. :roll: I stand by my original statement that:
Quite possibly, smoking with plastic wrap is the dummest idea since using kitty litter in the water pan.

Or I could be full of $hit. Maybe next time I get a packer brisket, I'll just throw it in the smoker heavy duty plastic wrap and all. Whatcha say barbefunkoramaque? Good Idea?

Straw man fallacies seem to be your expertise. In addition to trying to argue a point no one was making, you now are arguing a point based on an entire MATERIAL that no one has suggested using.

The plastic vac wrap is not the same thing as industrial clear film.

So in essence you hold on to your failing argument (I mean that respectfully mods) that Holding, Reheating, or finishing the cook in plastic wrap is the the same as smoking bbq in the smoker with the same wrap. And that Plastic wrap or film is the same as industrial vac wrap.

I will draw a parallel.. I hereby claim you know nothing about BBQ (which I do not believe personally) because I know I can prove you do not speak fluent latin.

Like I said... I use butchers paper.

In addition to the Brisket Packer material argument being unrelated due to its molecular design (they are chemically different) it would fail cogency as part of the BBQ process is to rub with spices and smoke.... to which you could not do without opening the package. Once again... funny, you make a double straw man fallacy by arguing your case with two premises that are not under scrutiny at all.... those premises being the "smoking process" and of course relating one product (which people are debating about) to another, which is pulled out of the blue and unrelated. Like Chicken and Brisket.

I merely draw a conclusion: Cooking with plastic wrap is dumb. And for a variety of reasons. You are free to disagree. I am free to ignore your taunts.

:-DTaunts? LOL Then do so. Ya Big Lump.:-P

That was an endearment.

As far as reasons, I think the brethren would like an explanation of why its stupid or dumb. I gave a few reasons why its not, and mind you I don't even use it except in holding times.

If you are going to make a blanket statement like mopping is stupid, or foil is for suckers, hey, say why... then the other guys chime in with why its not and then people make up their minds.

My issue other than the propaganda regarding its safety, was that you cannot forward an argument "that it is dumb to use to smoke BBQ" when the concern was more about its use as a reheating and holding medium (in the smoker or out).

You could forward it by saying it is unhealthy because....... but site some more respectable data besides some "urban legends" site.

It is so sad that Dr. Edward Fujimoto the Manager of the Wellness and Lifestyle Medicine Department at Castle Medical Center in Hawaii has caused such an uproar with so little data to prove it. He mentioned this regarding molded clear plastic food trays and it has morphed into plastic wrap with not one shred of evidence to the contrary from a reputable source since it was uttered on January 23, 2002.

The urban legend site had some decent links. You didn't reseach them? :eek:

BTW Don: It seems to me you're just as guilty of making ultimatums:

e.g.: "Stop Mopping. Stoppit! Now!"

hmmmmm read post below

Issue One

Apparently you did not read them yourself... read them closely and Mark you will realize that was the reason I gleefully thought the purpose of the link/links was to shed light on public IGNORANCE of the issue.


My favorite parts of your Link

"Studies - including the one initiated by high school student Claire Nelson (mentioned in one of the email texts above) — have shown that DEHA, when present, can migrate into food at high temperatures."

Okay so High school student says it can leech... let est. that as fact for a moment.

"Though it is not contained in Saran Wrap, it has been, and may still be, an ingredient in some other brands of plastic wrap."

By the way... its not in commercial grade film either. The films are made by most of the same companies.

"The current scientific consensus is that it is not, at least not in the minute amounts resulting from migration from plastics into foods."

"Even though DEHA has long been regarded as a possible human carcinogen, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency removed it from its list of toxic chemicals in the late 1990s after concluding, based on a review of the scientific evidence, that "it cannot reasonably be anticipated to cause cancer, teratogenic effects, immunotoxicity, neurotoxicity, gene mutations, liver, kidney, reproductive or developmental toxicity or other serious or irreversible chronic health effects."

Lets review... so far we have a study by a high school student that concludes that DEHA may leach into our food but its NOT in the plastic film we are talking about AND is probably not harmful.

Your LINKS Inside the link go on to show that studies from the U of Cincinnati (not a high school kid) show that BPA is also not in their product.

Here is my favorite one about the email which started this silliness (claim that fat and heat leached dioxins out of the plastic film.

"This e-mail claimed that the combination of fat, high heat and plastics releases dioxin into the food and ultimately into the cells of the body, thereby increasing the risk of producing cancerous cells. SC Johnson has researched these claims and it is clear that the information is not only misleading, but also unnecessarily alarms consumers.

When used in the microwave, there is no trace level migration of dioxins from any Saran
™ or Ziploc® product. We know this because these products are 100% dioxin-free."

So once again... no dioxins in the actual product... which is the same argument stated above in regards to the study by the high school chick.

This MYTH is spread much in the same way it had been introduced by you in this forum.

You linked it to us... a link you claim is about leaching dioxins into food... you use that as you premise that it is dumb BUT... failed to read it thoroughly enough to tell that for the most part it says the opposite.

Perhaps only this quote from the FDA, in a document written quite some time ago give a shred of question to the issue.

"Microwave plastic wraps, wax paper, cooking bags, parchment paper, and white microwave-safe paper towels should be safe to use. Do not let plastic wrap touch foods during microwaving."

I am not asking anyone to agree with me... but if you're going to spread conjecture... please read your own links for evidence to support it.

Even that you don't really have to do...

Issue Two

Your claim that I issue Ultimatums.

Once again I respectfully disagree based on definition.

One of the reasons why I mentioned "mopping" in this thread as an example of things people disagree about is that precise reason. In the Mopping thread the posters pretty much handled all the reasons why not to... I used something called "humor.":-P

You will note at times I will be arbitrary but not without poking fun or parodying my own flexibility elsewhere. In Other posts I claim to to flexible in one matter but poke fun at my inflexibility in other areas.

Now, let's take that thread for example. I believe I was making a humorous statement both there and later in the thread where I said another way would be to essentially enter into your pit to mop so as to keep cold air from going in. I assumed everyone would see the humor (not necessarily think its funny) but at least see it was an attempt to make a silly. But hey, here is a place where I got someone all in a tizzy because I thought a specific group of BBQers should be frozen in liquid nitrogen. Here is the place someone took that seriously long ago.

No... what I mean is... hey, if its stupid or dumb to you, instead of linking it to an abstract document just tell us. I think its stupid and every bbq restaurateur from Allen Texas to Maine that has been using this for the last 30 or so years is stupid because.... ???????????????????????

Not a problem with the opinion... but I wanna know what the problem with using the film to reheat or finish cooking or holding is NOT... what the problem with SMOKING meat in plastic (which was not the claim) or using shrink vac plastic (which is not the same thing or being implied here).

Making Ultimatums---actually I did not make one in that sentence.

Ultimatum means a demand (backed up by a threat). Possibly, you could make a case that perhaps my exclamation point in the sentence you cut and pasted here expresses a threat of some kind due to it abruptness... but that would be a weak assumption.

Finally... and ultimatum would be...

"stop mopping now!!!!!! or I will dose violators in liquid nitrogen."

Truth be told neither you nor I offered an ultimatum here or in the post about mopping.

You made a claim... that was using plastic film to SMOKE meat is dumb.... there was no threat. So thus.... no ultimatum.

Good thread though and thanks for the opinions.

So much for ignoring my taunts huh? LOL

Don:

I got a little more time to respond today so here it is. Perhaps leading brands such as Saran Wrap are safe now if used properly. My concern is using off brands that may still contain harmful additives such as plastizers and/or uninformed misuse.

Here's a reputable link:
http://www.aerias.org/DesktopModules...x?articleId=60

Note the following:

Phthalates and the Types of Products They are Used In

Di (2-ethylhexyl) phthalate [DEHP]: building products, food packaging, children's products and medical devices DEHP is added to PVC to make some soft, clingy wraps for commercial use. Consumer Reports tested 14 national and local brands of wrapped cheese for levels of plasticizers. The reason they chose cheese is that plasticizers are more likely to leach into fatty foods like cheese and hamburger. They found high levels of DEHP in the cheeses wrapped in deli cling wrap. People who eat several ounces of this cheese every day could get very high doses of DEHP that could possibly cause health problems. There were moderate levels of DEHP in some of the shrink-wrapped cheeses and in the waxed cheeses with plastic overwrap. There was little or no DEHP on individually wrapped slices of American cheese or blocks of cheddar in laminated foil wrap. Consumer Reports also tested plastic wrap. Of the seven national and store brands of plastic wrap they analyzed, only two contained any of the five plasticizers they were looking for. They reheated a cooked hamburger wrapped in those plastic wraps, but found just a little bit of the plasticizers had been absorbed where the patty was in contact with the wrap. In terms of the eight microwavable bowls from top manufacturers they examined, they found no plasticizers.

I believe in a relatively minimalist approach in cooking. Consequently, I don't wrap. I think it's generally a waste of time and finite resources that end up as garbage. This is my personal choice and I don't intend to force such views on anyone else.

Another personal trait of mine is a general mistrust of agencies such as the EPA in safeguarding the public health. In my opinion, such agencies have often been shown to be too cozy with "industry" instead.

Also note my byline: "A thin line separates paranoia from an acute understanding of reality." I could be straying over that line a little here but then again, maybe not.

Mark - My Dear Friend and Brethren.

I sincerely mean that.

For one... what is funny, is neither of us habitually use this product. I do sometimes, actually increasingly so as my new ministry cooks a lot of things ahead of time because we can only smoke around 50 and freeze or cool about that much. But here we are arguing about something we don't use... you use foil and I use butcher paper. I think foil is hugely dangerous but that is another matter. But perhaps our debate will educate.


Now your new info you spend time on it great. Thanks for the contribution. This is what I call a well thought out premise. I was glad to read that. seriously

I agree with your thoughts on the EPA (I mentioned FDA in regards to safety and public information. Recently we have been experiencing limited governmental oversight where we desperately need it because politicians who think that Free Market theology is infallible (it is neither all good or all bad in my opinion) added a caveat to the "police themselves" theory in that it was thought that business owners would police themselves merely to avoid controversy and thereby lose their cookies should a health scare rise up. However, even Greenspan stated that his worst mistake was thinking big business would police itself.

In as far as the government the rule of thumb since the 80's is one way to combat regulation (even if it was passed into law) was to place cronies in at the heads of the various overseeing bodies that were friendly or came from the actual industry they were charged to protect. In addition, lowering budgets (of course not the salaries of said leaders) also reduced a body's capacity to enforce.

So yes I agree with your assertions about trust and the EPA or FDA as this case calls for but only in matters of nuance. The FDA had the stuff on its list.... but removed it as no real studies showed that dioxins did cause this damage after a 30 year call for scientist to come up with it. Furthermore, the main fact is that it simply is not in the product so we kind of are debating a moot point.

Dr. Fujimoto or whatever, was doing studies that included styrofoam... he cited his work was done in Hawaii where he worked then later when pressed for the study he said it was in Japan... when still pressed he said it was in Japaneese. So he is clearly out of the equation as a reputable source.


Now as a critic of your new info... its origin is here

http://www.aerias.org/DesktopModules...x?articleId=60

Now Aerias Primary goal is actually to protect air quality. Basically, it knocks just about EVERY plastic made out there. Why, because simply the actual making of the product is bad for our air. But you cannot make the public make the desision on their own as they honestly are busy living from day to day... so the goal here is if they attach a secondary problem to EVERY plastic out there... the theory is demand will go down and thereby reduce production and increase the quality of our air. So even (I can't believe I am saying this) well meaning institutions like this tend to only use one set of datum. I like this article because the references are included (though not that conclusive as most of the food related stuff is secondary sources at best [newpapers]).

So...

If I were you.... read this... it HUGELY supports your argument and also is well credentialed and primary, though dated.

http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/EDs...s-CU5jun98.htm

Good good letter.

Thanks for the link http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/EDs...s-CU5jun98.htm

BTW: I don't foil either. I have been known to place butts, briskets or whatever in a stainless steel food pan with a lid on top.