Obviously you are entitled to your opinion about John, but I can tell you that you are mistaken. John left Franklin on good terms. He was the cook at Franklin and spent a number of months training his replacement. Had there been animosity when he left, it would have been a sudden departure.


As far as his food goes, I have never had better. Yesterday I had about 2 lbs of brisket, turkey, ribs, guts, and every one of them was cooked to perfection. I have cooked brisket with only salt, pepper and garlic, and had excellent results. John isn't saying that it isn't good. He only stated that he has never cooked a brisket using only salt and pepper.


Go by and see him some time. He is a great guy. You won't spend more than 20 minutes waiting in line, you will probably enjoy some free beer, and I will bet you that you will find it the best BBQ in Austin.

I could see the right kind of pickle juice adding a very distinct flavor enhancer. I may try that as an experiment myself. I don't see it as much of a binding agent. It's wet, but not viscous like mustard or oil.

I've met John and had some great converastion at his place there in Austin. He was very nice and was pretty forth coming with answers to the questions I asked. I would have a very hard time questioning his integrity. I have eaten his beef ribs and can tell you they are amazing! I can also tell you his pit design is spot on and works well for him. I do think there is something to a well designed pit versus the cook. Why do so many championship teams cook on Jambo's? Because they cook great due to thier design. You still have to have the basics of cooking down but a cooker can make or break you!

The pickle juice does not seem that far fetched to me. If they are serving pickles as a condiment, what do you do with the left over pickle juice? Cross utilization of product is critical in the food industry. It sounds like John has it figured out! As mentioned before, Paul Kirk mentions this in one of his books and I've seen it in a couple more as well.

They might use a blend of pepper and salt, but don't forget the most important ingredient the wood they use for smoke and how they use it. If it wasn't for that you might as well just cook in your oven.

I don't think it can have that much impact especially on larger cuts... It's not something I've done in a long time, but if/when I do it, I like something along these lines...

For me, it's more about just changing it up a bit and going back to something I started using very early when I was first learning and experimenting.

Maybe y'all should just come on down, try the meat!

Thanks for chiming in John...

Based on your reply above, should we take this as a re-confirmation of the original posters takeaway conclusion from your quote in the article ?

In addition, the first bbq book I ever had was Paul Kirk's Championship BBQ, that started me on the mustard slathers from day one, way before doing this professionally, and I've used it ever since. I think just mustard is too thick for a slather, and it's about binding the rub to the meat, so mixing in some leftover pickle juice or anything to thin it out a bit is great. The slather, I've found, doesn't do anything for the flavor, but does create a firm yet supple bark on the meat. I've cooked on many different types of pits(a lot of them self made), but have come to the conclusion that the slathers only work on an offset pit with a strong draft flowing over the meat, and cooking fat side up. The bark that can be created on the rendered fat is just mind blowing!!! It's totally different, than bark created with sugar containing rubs on the bare lean side of brisket, which is standard in KCBS competition. Side note here, get "Legends of Texas BBQ" by Robb Walsh. I think this one and Paul Kirk's combined are the perfect combination!
As far as just salt and pepper. I've found it to be boring. Keep that rub really granular though, too many spice powders in the mix make for a pasty and soggy bark (especially if you use foil). Try out the salt and pepper rub, but replace half of the salt portion with seasoned salt. I first got the idea when visiting the number one bbq joint in Texas when the last top 50 came out. I detected it in the flavor and saw it sitting around there. I went back home and tried it out and loved it.
Hope some of this helps out, and please don't start injecting pickle juice into briskets!!!

Another thing too, any of y'all wanna come down and cook for a day, come on, free labor is awesome!!!

Great info brother. Thanks for all the clarification.

One of the best briskets I've cooked was just kosher salt, pepper and garlic pepper.

Mighty brethren of you:becky:

Oh I'll be there. Flyboy has me hooked.

I'll call first.

Mustard & pickles are for Cuban samiches, I do Boring very well.:bow:

Got one on right now, except with granulated garlic