Rule Question: Deep Frying

[jbiesinger]

I was wondering if anyone has questioned the rule regarding deep frying.

rule 8: parboiling and/or deep frying of competition meat is not allowed.

I would have to assume there is a specific kcbs definition for "deep frying" because it seems legal to cook chicken completely submerged in fat, such as parkay, which to me seems the same.

does anybody know if this rule has been discussed and explained?

 

[bigabyte]

op2:

 

[Lake Dogs]

with shallow frying you must turn the meat over to get it done on all sides, dont you?
completely different!

:becky:

 

[BoneDaddy's]

Seems pretty cut and dry to me...don't try to read between the lines!

 

[Ford]

I was wondering if anyone has questioned the rule regarding deep frying.

rule 8: parboiling and/or deep frying of competition meat is not allowed.

I would have to assume there is a specific kcbs definition for "deep frying" because it seems legal to cook chicken completely submerged in fat, such as parkay, which to me seems the same.

does anybody know if this rule has been discussed and explained?

Deep frying - oil heated to high temps prior to adding meat and meat totally submerged.

Perfectly legal butter cooking method - not submerged. Butter starts cold not heated.

Nice try but there's clearly a big difference. Have you taken a class so that you understand what the butter method is or are you making assumptions?

 

[Balls Casten]

Ditto op2:

 

[jbiesinger]

Deep frying - oil heated to high temps prior to adding meat and meat totally submerged.

Perfectly legal butter cooking method - not submerged. Butter starts cold not heated.

Nice try but there's clearly a big difference. Have you taken a class so that you understand what the butter method is or are you making assumptions?

no, never took a class. I guess I understand the butter method but I don't understand the rules.

I have no intent on deep frying anything, I had an idea that I wanted to try. I checked the rules and my first thought was that my idea could be construed as frying. But then I got to thinking that the butter method is accepted, so cooking in fat was ok. I had to assume it must be more of an oil temp issue, than the oil itself. And I hadn't really thought about the amount of fat and whether the meat is submerged or not.

I always interpreted the butter method as a take on confit. Am I incorrect?

 

[bigabyte]

What about a high-heat cupcake chicken method? Just as legal as high-heat brisket? Or are we getting into frying there?
op2:

 

[BigButzBBQ]

What about a high-heat cupcake chicken method? Just as legal as high-heat brisket? Or are we getting into frying there?
op2:

I think the main difference is the temp at which the food enters the fat, if both are brought up to heat together it is more of a confit style cook than a deep fry. So no matter what temp you end with, in truth as long as both start off together at the same time at room temp or below I don't think it would be considered truly deep frying.

 

[Lake Dogs]

can we use lard (ala. butter), or any other oil/grease? I mean, seriously. I'm fairly certain that once I take the
pork and beef off the fire, I could probably get this old stick burner up pretty hot and plunk in some chicken covered
in oil and bring that up to a boil (ala. frying) fairly quick. If it's legal, I'll give that a try shortly, on some nice hot
burning oak. I need to work up some crispy skin anyway... Perhaps this is how to do it. Heck, might even pre-heat
the pot, dutch oven style... That way it'll come up fast.

 

[roksmith]

..not sure what you are trying to accomplish by dropping chicken into cold oil. If it's greasy chicken, you'll likely achieve it.
I always just thought, since it was a BBQ competition, I'd.. um BBQ it..
..but that's just me I guess.

 

[Lake Dogs]

Apparently judges prefer a bite through or slightly crispy skin. I could bring the temps
up fast and basically fricassee the chicken, then take the chicken off the heat and
set the skin up for about an hour as the temps come down on the stick burner. I'm
pretty certain I can get the back side up to 400+- with the front being only 320, then
immediately let the temps drop back down to 250 and *voila* crispy skin on BBQ
chicken.

The question is, IF I start with oil/lard at the same temps as the chicken, this is legal?

15 minutes or so on a quick bring-temps-up-to-frying-range, then about an hour
back at normal temps should do it. Season on the "flip".

 

[roksmith]

Don't see any reason why it wouldn't be legal. I have a feeling the oil won't come up to temp nearly as fast as you're thinking it will' but I suppose you could give it a shot. No difference "legally" between that and the butter bath some folks use.

 

[Slamdunkpro]

I always interpreted the butter method as a take on confit. Am I incorrect?

To me it's more of a poach method. Let's face it - there isn't a lot of true dry heat BBQing going on in competition (at least around here) A lot of competitors poach their chicken in fat and braise their ribs, butts and briskets (sometimes even poach briskets). It's become more of an outdoor cooking event than a "true" BBQ event.

 

[roksmith]

not saying there's anything wrong with creative BBQing.. I've been known to utulize the ole Texas Crutch myself.. but as I understand it, the reason most use the butter bath is to get some of the buttery flavor in their chicken.. it doesn't crisp it up from what 've seen. I believe you would achieve the same result with oil unless you throw it in something hot enough to melt steel.. you'll end up with chicken that tastes like grease.

Just a guess...

..and with my stick burner.. I'd be afraid to heat it up as high as you'd need to with oil inside... one grease fire in the smoker was enough to tell me I don't want to super heat it with a pot of boiling oil inside it.

 

[deguerre]

not saying there's anything wrong with creative BBQing.. I've been known to utulize the ole Texas Crutch myself.. but as I understand it, the reason most use the butter bath is to get some of the buttery flavor in their chicken.. it doesn't crisp it up from what 've seen. I believe you would achieve the same result with oil unless you throw it in something hot enough to melt steel.. you'll end up with chicken that tastes like grease.

Just a guess...

..and with my stick burner.. I'd be afraid to heat it up as high as you'd need to with oil inside... one grease fire in the smoker was enough to tell me I don't want to super heat it with a pot of boiling oil inside it.

What if you used...pure BACON grease?

 

[roksmith]

interesting thought... I've been known to lay a big slab of bacon over top of a lean brisket in a pinch.
The bacon grease would even add a little smokey flavor if the grease flavor soaks in.

How about wrapping the chicken in some little bacon blankets before cooking.... works for everything else

 

[bigabyte]

What if you used...pure BACON grease?

You are a genius. Cupcake chicken will never be the same.

 

[tonto1117]

What if you used...pure BACON grease?

You are a genius. Cupcake chicken will never be the same.

CHoink.....it's the new rage.....

 

[Ford]

Comments in red.

Apparently judges prefer a bite through or slightly crispy skin. I could bring the temps up fast and basically fricassee the chicken, then take the chicken off the heat and set the skin up for about an hour as the temps come down on the stick burner. I'm pretty certain I can get the back side up to 400+- with the front being only 320, then immediately let the temps drop back down to 250 and *voila* crispy skin on BBQ chicken.

Problem - When you put both in cold then they both rise at the same temp so in order to get the liquid up to 350F for frying you'd need to bring the chicken up to 350F. Preheating the liquid means that the liquid may drop when the meat is added and then both will increase at about the same rate. So to get from 320 to 350 only gets the meat from 40 to 70. So then the oil will cook the chicken.

The question is, IF I start with oil/lard at the same temps as the chicken, this is legal?
YES

15 minutes or so on a quick bring-temps-up-to-frying-range, then about an hour
back at normal temps should do it. Season on the "flip".
Even without meat in a pan it will take a lot longer than 15 minutes to get up to temp. Tried to heat stuff in a smoker. At 300F temp I can put in a quart of sauce and leave for an hour and it still isn't boiling. Deep fryer is putting out way more than 300F to get the oil up to temp.

Now if you took a cast iron pan and put it in the firebox for 15 minutes then pulled out and added a cup max of oil and it didn't immediately burn you could add cooked chicken and put in the smoker at any temp and crisp the skin. Or for that matter just leave the pan out. I'll bet it would be nice and crisp and it's sure not deep frying. And no I haven't done it but I know people have done it and don't do it anymore.

Anybody else put liquids in a hot smoker and did they boil?