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roksmith
01-27-2011, 09:59 AM
Any input from the board on this discussion thread?
http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99416

Jeff_in_KC
02-08-2011, 05:10 PM
The board raised their eyebrows frrom ones I talked to but no talk of action. I think they'd be very surprised at the teams cooking ILLEGALLY! It's about time teams were named if you ask me. Snake River Farms apparently spilled the beans on several. When I emailed them as just an "interested" person in purchasing their product and asked questions, they didn't both responding. I think they know.

Gene01
02-08-2011, 10:03 PM
I am sure that we are discussing this over the next weekend in KC, I have 30 pages of notes on this subject and will bring them with me....

Finney
02-08-2011, 10:14 PM
Please address the cut, not just the fact that SRFs was selling under weight cuts to comp teams. We all already know that under weight pork is illegal.

A lot of people (me included) think that the cut should be legal (if over 5 lbs) and the meat comes from any part of the whole shoulder.

roksmith
02-09-2011, 05:18 AM
yup.. what he said

drbbq
02-09-2011, 07:58 AM
Hey Gene,
I'd like to suggest that instead of creating more micro rules we just change the rule to "It has to be pork, it can't be ribs, and it has to weigh at least five pounds". Period. Anybody wants to cook a ham or a loin I'm good with it. BBQ joints all over the country cook those cuts.

Rub
02-09-2011, 08:12 AM
The way I understand it from my emails with those "in the know", the pork collar is coming off of a shoulder that is cut/harvested differently than our traditional shoulder that we all know and love. This newer shoulder cut is for export outside the US and the pork collar is a by-product of it. I do not believe you could harvest a pork collar from a cut-for-the-USA shoulder, the way I understand it.

Slamdunkpro
02-09-2011, 09:00 AM
The way I understand it from my emails with those "in the know", the pork collar is coming off of a shoulder that is cut/harvested differently than our traditional shoulder that we all know and love. This newer shoulder cut is for export outside the US and the pork collar is a by-product of it. I do not believe you could harvest a pork collar from a cut-for-the-USA shoulder, the way I understand it.
Sure you can, you just break the animal further back; at the 3rd or 4th rib vs the 1st. It would be a long butt, but it would still be a butt. Ray's right with his suggestion of anything but ribs weighing 5 lbs. Even an IMPS definition is pointless because the competitor can trim and repackage prior to the event. Unless the inspectors are going to start carrying needles, insert them into the pork butt and measure the distance from the end of the loin side to the blade bone there's really no way to tell. Hell, have you ever even seen a meat inspector with a scale?

roksmith
02-09-2011, 09:04 AM
I think I'm with Ray at this point... if it weighs 5lbs and used to oink.
Leave out the ribs and loin as well I guess, but the best Q comes from the shoulder anyway, so they would just handicap themselves by getting too creative.

crd26a
02-09-2011, 09:54 AM
I think I'm with Ray at this point... if it weighs 5lbs and used to oink.
Leave out the ribs and loin as well I guess, but the best Q comes from the shoulder anyway, so they would just handicap themselves by getting too creative.

Ray has a point, but I dread that kind of outcome. Think of it, a lot of people are already putting in multiple styles of meat from the shoulder, now expand it. You could end up with a box of pulled, ham, loin and god knows what else. Imagine the potential meat costs for a team just to build a box having 3 or 4 different pork meats to make up the one box.

Jorge
02-09-2011, 10:08 AM
I'm fine with Ray's proposed solution. It's easy enough to enforce and creates a level playing field.

Rub
02-09-2011, 10:20 AM
Sure you can, you just break the animal further back; at the 3rd or 4th rib vs the 1st. It would be a long butt, but it would still be a butt.
I didn't say you couldn't, I said that's not the way a shoulder is cut for typical US packing/sale. Obviously they do it all the time (for export) which is why we have pork collars.

roksmith
02-09-2011, 10:49 AM
..be interesting to see what a 5lb piece of bacon would smoke up like...like a very well marbled brisket flat?

BBQ Grail
02-09-2011, 10:51 AM
..be interesting to see what a 5lb piece of bacon would smoke up like...like a very well marbled brisket flat?

Just as most of us wouldn't go near a five pound slab of ribs a 5 pound pork belly probably wouldn't yield very good results for anything.

roksmith
02-09-2011, 11:07 AM
I dunno... I'd give that a taste.
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2010-03/52509147.jpg

arlieque
02-09-2011, 06:25 PM
I think this is a easy fix too....cook what you want but must be turned in as pulled pork only? Bet that wont fly? haha

Finney
02-09-2011, 06:53 PM
I didn't say you couldn't, I said that's not the way a shoulder is cut for typical US packing/sale. Obviously they do it all the time (for export) which is why we have pork collars.

They do it for the US also... There is a spec and a IMPS item number for it.

Rub
02-09-2011, 07:14 PM
Is that the 403A shoulder? I'm trying to learn this stuff. :confused:
I was picking the brain of the Director of Food Service Marketing of the National Pork Board, he was pretty patient with me.

Finney
02-09-2011, 10:40 PM
Is that the 403A shoulder? I'm trying to learn this stuff. :confused:
I was picking the brain of the Director of Food Service Marketing of the National Pork Board, he was pretty patient with me.

Yes....

Ford
02-10-2011, 06:50 AM
They are voting on it Friday.

"

I motion that a Rep Advisory be created to state that the American term "Pork Collar" is indeed a part of the shoulder, and that it be accepted as a meat in the Pork category as long as it is 5 pounds or greater. "
Now I guess this means having packaging if it is small or it means the reps may get a scale. If you pretrim be able to prove when purchased it was more than 5 lbs.

roksmith
02-10-2011, 07:57 AM
Scales are the only way to be sure I suppose.. it's gotta be 5lbs after trimming also.

Smokedelic
02-10-2011, 08:07 AM
They are voting on it Friday.

"

I motion that a Rep Advisory be created to state that the American term "Pork Collar" is indeed a part of the shoulder, and that it be accepted as a meat in the Pork category as long as it is 5 pounds or greater. "
Now I guess this means having packaging if it is small or it means the reps may get a scale. If you pretrim be able to prove when purchased it was more than 5 lbs.

It doesn't matter what it weighed when purchased. It only matters what it weighs when it goes on the cooker, and at that time, it has to weigh 5 lbs. or more.

Scottie
02-10-2011, 12:44 PM
I've been in contact with them as well. I know a coupl eof folks to get in the door at least!!! ;0

They have no pictures, information or anything on pork collar for the National Pork Board. I had to forward them information that I obtained from another source and it was all European information.

so my guess is that is not a recognized cut in the US.

Is that the 403A shoulder? I'm trying to learn this stuff. :confused:
I was picking the brain of the Director of Food Service Marketing of the National Pork Board, he was pretty patient with me.

Rub
02-10-2011, 12:55 PM
I have a few pics at home they sent me and I'll see about getting them up later today.

Scottie
02-10-2011, 01:32 PM
Was that Anne? She passed me to the expert and he didn't have anything...

I have a few pics at home they sent me and I'll see about getting them up later today.

roksmith
02-10-2011, 01:46 PM
I hope they put something out on this. I know Ford said they were voting on it.. but I didn't see anything specific in the agenda.. unless is was in the referenced attachment that isn't posted.

Scottie
02-10-2011, 01:57 PM
It's a little more detailed than what is in the agenda... I've been preavy to a couple of emails with cc'ing...

roksmith
02-10-2011, 01:59 PM
good deal.. anybody calling in? If not.. how soon do they post the mp3 file?

Scottie
02-10-2011, 02:04 PM
It's usually within 2 days the latest... But the meetings are usually earlier in the week. So maybe by Tuesday?

Rub
02-10-2011, 04:12 PM
Was that Anne? She passed me to the expert and he didn't have anything...
No, it was Stephen Gerike - Director of Food Service Marketing, National Pork Board. Here's the pics he sent:
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/180456_1557137088241_1229656540_31155208_7254646_n .jpg

And here's the explanation from the email:

Rob,

The Pork Collar Butt is a European and Canadian specification for a boneless pork butt that is cut from the Pork, Outside Shoulder, Long Cut. This is a shoulder that is separated from the loin at the 4th and 5th rib as opposed to the 2nd rib break that is more conventional in the US. Itís basically a boneless butt with the blade/rib section still attached. The extra lean is what is normally sold as country style ribs. As US packers cut more pork carcasses for export, this break is becoming more prevalent. This break is used to create a shorter loin for the Japanese Market and the collar butt is a by-product of the growing export business.

Intrepret as you will.

drbbq
02-11-2011, 06:17 AM
Looks like the end of the loin to me.

Ford
02-11-2011, 06:30 AM
I hope they put something out on this. I know Ford said they were voting on it.. but I didn't see anything specific in the agenda.. unless is was in the referenced attachment that isn't posted.
Wha t i posted was cut and paste from the agenda. The proposal was to create a rep advisory.

roksmith
02-11-2011, 07:43 AM
Yup.. My bad. Not sure how I missed it the first couple times.

Juggy D Beerman
02-11-2011, 08:54 AM
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/180456_1557137088241_1229656540_31155208_7254646_n .jpg

This is a shoulder that is separated from the loin at the 4th and 5th rib as opposed to the 2nd rib break that is more conventional in the US.

I agree with drbbq. By reading the description and looking at the last picture, there is definitely loin meat in that shoulder cut. If this is a legal cut for KCBS contests, what is going to stop someone from going further down the spine and separating to the 6th or 7th rib, allowing even more loin meat.

roksmith
02-11-2011, 09:12 AM
Things are going to get way more complicated if we have to begin determining which rib your particular processor decided to cut on. I still say.. Who cares? If it weighs 5 lbs, it's fine...it's still BBQ.

In any event... We'll hear a clarification soon enough.

Juggy D Beerman
02-11-2011, 09:57 AM
Things are going to get way more complicated if we have to begin determining which rib your particular processor decided to cut on. I still say.. Who cares? If it weighs 5 lbs, it's fine...it's still BBQ.

In any event... We'll hear a clarification soon enough.

Rock, I care. I go back so far in the contest circuit that I remember when loin meat was a legal pork entry. I am not a trained butcher by any means, but I have cut up many a hog. Meat harvested from the area above the ribs is loin meat.

As long as the KCBS has had rules, there have been people circumventing them or looking for loopholes. IMO, the KCBS has two options. Tighten up their description of shoulder meat, by defining how the shoulder is cut/butchered. The other option is as drbbq suggested. Drop the shoulder rule entirely and allow all cuts of pork (excluding ribs) that weigh at least five pounds when they go on the smoker.

Scottie
02-11-2011, 10:31 AM
Exactly why folks use it for slicing... Plus the white meat (loin) it surrounded by darkmeat as well. So you get the best of both worlds. White loin meat, surrounded by dark meat and fat...

Looks like the end of the loin to me.

dmprantz
02-11-2011, 10:45 AM
If they don't pass a five pound non-rib pork rule (Isn't that how it used to be?) I would still like some clarification on pieces of meat not labeled as "Boston Butt" being legal.

dmp

swamprb
02-14-2011, 04:18 PM
No, it was Stephen Gerike - Director of Food Service Marketing, National Pork Board. Here's the pics he sent:
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/180456_1557137088241_1229656540_31155208_7254646_n .jpg

And here's the explanation from the email:

Rob,

The Pork Collar Butt is a European and Canadian specification for a boneless pork butt that is cut from the Pork, Outside Shoulder, Long Cut. This is a shoulder that is separated from the loin at the 4th and 5th rib as opposed to the 2nd rib break that is more conventional in the US. Itís basically a boneless butt with the blade/rib section still attached. The extra lean is what is normally sold as country style ribs. As US packers cut more pork carcasses for export, this break is becoming more prevalent. This break is used to create a shorter loin for the Japanese Market and the collar butt is a by-product of the growing export business.

Intrepret as you will.


This would seem to explain the Japanese text on the Korobuta and Wagyu shipping cases my butcher showed me. (not SRF) They sell to high end restaurants and he breaks them down, ties them and and they are cooked like loins. I posted some pics in the Comp. thread.

roksmith
02-15-2011, 09:28 AM
Wow.. never dreamed the board meeting went on for so long.
4 hours in to the mp3 you can find their answer.
The original motion was pulled and they decided to adopt the american cut standards.

Ford
02-15-2011, 12:12 PM
Wow.. never dreamed the board meeting went on for so long.
4 hours in to the mp3 you can find their answer.
The original motion was pulled and they decided to adopt the american cut standards.
I'm starting the download now. Does your comment mean that the collar is not legal? Seems like American Standard does not include it from all these comments above.

And I listened in on one that went until after 12:30 CST and started at 7:00

roksmith
02-15-2011, 02:42 PM
They will be putting out a Rep advisory as well as an article in the bullsheet.. But the idea I got was that the cut you start with must be an american standard Whole Shoulder, Butt or Picnic. I believe it will handle the descrepancy in differing terms such as Boston Butt, Pork Butt, and Shoulder Butt. They would all be legal because they are all the same cut by american standards.
Their issue seemed to be that a collar, being from a european cut shoulder is broken on a different rib which gives it a couple extra inches of money muscle.

SRF collars were discussed and they would appear to be illegal from this point forward if they are indeed broken in european fashion.

It may put the ball in their court to prove that they are indeed breaking the primal in the correct place.

My understanding is that if you start with a legal US shoulder, you could create the same type of cut to cook and be legal, but that the emphasis was on the idea that the collar SRF is selling does include extra loin(money muscle) thus making it illegal.

I may have misunderstood some of the finer points and I guess we will all have to wait for the official word... I believe it will be in the next BullSheet.

swamprb
02-16-2011, 02:59 PM
Any word from the BOD?

Jorge
02-16-2011, 03:29 PM
They will be putting out a Rep advisory as well as an article in the bullsheet.. But the idea I got was that the cut you start with must be an american standard Whole Shoulder, Butt or Picnic. I believe it will handle the descrepancy in differing terms such as Boston Butt, Pork Butt, and Shoulder Butt. They would all be legal because they are all the same cut by american standards.
Their issue seemed to be that a collar, being from a european cut shoulder is broken on a different rib which gives it a couple extra inches of money muscle.

SRF collars were discussed and they would appear to be illegal from this point forward if they are indeed broken in european fashion.

It may put the ball in their court to prove that they are indeed breaking the primal in the correct place.

My understanding is that if you start with a legal US shoulder, you could create the same type of cut to cook and be legal, but that the emphasis was on the idea that the collar SRF is selling does include extra loin(money muscle) thus making it illegal.

I may have misunderstood some of the finer points and I guess we will all have to wait for the official word... I believe it will be in the next BullSheet.

I listened, and the board agreed to adopt the definitions as proposed by the pork board. There is also a rep advisory that will go out.

Now to me that says you better show up with a cut that's approved. I also understand, that somebody is still going to show up with a collar that's either inspected or in their backup cooler and as long as they don't get caught they will cook it. At this point, it's on the cooks to police themselves.

Speaking for myself, I received a pork collar that I ordered to see what the difference was. What I got was not a traditional butt, and it did contain additional meat that I believe could lead to a competitive advantage.

Any word from the BOD?

It's in the podcast available to members. Standard US cuts as defined by the pork board are legal.

swamprb
02-16-2011, 03:36 PM
I listened, and the board agreed to adopt the definitions as proposed by the pork board. There is also a rep advisory that will go out.

Now to me that says you better show up with a cut that's approved. I also understand, that somebody is still going to show up with a collar that's either inspected or in their backup cooler and as long as they don't get caught they will cook it. At this point, it's on the cooks to police themselves.

Speaking for myself, I received a pork collar that I ordered to see what the difference was. What I got was not a traditional butt, and it did contain additional meat that I believe could lead to a competitive advantage.



It's in the podcast available to members. Standard US cuts as defined by the pork board are legal.


So, a Boneless Butt Collar Trim over 5lbs is legal if it is cut and wrapped in the US?

swamprb
02-16-2011, 05:38 PM
Check out this weekly advertisement:

http://www.uwajimaya.com/weeklyspecials.html

Center cut Kurobata Pork Butt $5.99 lb.

I know of 60 cases of Boneless Pork Butt Collar Trim that is destined for Hot Pots in the Seattle area this week!

Wonder how they label it if you were to ask for the whole Butt? 5 pounds please!

roksmith
02-16-2011, 05:53 PM
So, a Boneless Butt Collar Trim over 5lbs is legal if it is cut and wrapped in the US?

Doesn't matter where it's cut...matters how it's cut.
If the boneless butt collar trim is cut from a regulation US pork shoulder, it should be fine.

Might be best to confirm with the processor how it's being butchered. The name doesn't make it illegal. The cutting process might.

Scottie
02-17-2011, 10:10 AM
I think it does matter. Unless you show up with a whole front leg of a pig. Then it's not the shoulder, butt or picnic... Because that is the only way to get a US recognized pork collar. This is not Europe...

Again, this is splitting hairs, which the board has ruled on. I wish anyone luck if they are turned in. I will have no problem at all calling folks out that want to play this game.



Doesn't matter where it's cut...matters how it's cut.
If the boneless butt collar trim is cut from a regulation US pork shoulder, it should be fine.

Might be best to confirm with the processor how it's being butchered. The name doesn't make it illegal. The cutting process might.

Jorge
02-17-2011, 10:20 AM
Doesn't matter where it's cut...matters how it's cut.
If the boneless butt collar trim is cut from a regulation US pork shoulder, it should be fine.

Might be best to confirm with the processor how it's being butchered. The name doesn't make it illegal. The cutting process might.

Bingo. It's either the cut established by the pork board or it isn't. Collar trim is not established, and WAS NOT approved by the BoD.

I'm not directing this at swamprb or anyone else. It's amazing to me that now that we've had a decision the responsibility is actually on the teams that want to make certain that they stay within the rules!:shock::roll: I don't think I'd want to show up with a butt, that I hadn't inspected to make certain that it was within the rules. I'd be surprised if anything other than a legal cut came out of the cryo, but I wouldn't want to find out during inspection.

HandsomeSwede
02-17-2011, 12:44 PM
Anybody else still completely confused by this or is it just me? My question is, what should my pork label say so I don't get DQ'd?

My brother is also a butcher and breaks down all our meats for us, what do I tell him: "Make sure you are cutting it at this rib and not this one." He's been butchering and working in a slaughterhouse for 20 years, if he cuts his shoulders that way does that mean he is now all of a sudden wrong?

roksmith
02-17-2011, 01:09 PM
I believe this is the site that was mentioned as establishing the butchering guidlines.
http://www.porkfoodservice.com/
If he butchers according to these guidlines, it's legal.. if not, it's not.

If you want to be safe with the "collar trimmed butt", Show up with full butts in their cryopacs and trim it down to whatever cut you wish as long as it's 5lbs still.

That in no way circumvents the rules as I understand them..

Scottie
02-17-2011, 03:14 PM
It needs to follow the National Pork Board says is an American cut. Not a European cut, which includes the collar

Anybody else still completely confused by this or is it just me? My question is, what should my pork label say so I don't get DQ'd?

My brother is also a butcher and breaks down all our meats for us, what do I tell him: "Make sure you are cutting it at this rib and not this one." He's been butchering and working in a slaughterhouse for 20 years, if he cuts his shoulders that way does that mean he is now all of a sudden wrong?

Scottie
02-17-2011, 03:18 PM
Not to start a disagreement. But I think you need to listen to the entire Board Meeting. This cut is not recognized by the National Pork Board, which is the standard that the KCBS BOD are following. They are not recognizing the pork collar cut. So if you even have a specialty butcher cut it, it is still illegal....


But I'll let folks find that out themselves when they are busted and banned from the KCBS...


I believe this is the site that was mentioned as establishing the butchering guidlines.
http://www.porkfoodservice.com/
If he butchers according to these guidlines, it's legal.. if not, it's not.

If you want to be safe with the "collar trimmed butt", Show up with full butts in their cryopacs and trim it down to whatever cut you wish as long as it's 5lbs still.

That in no way circumvents the rules as I understand them..

Ford
02-17-2011, 03:20 PM
I believe this is the site that was mentioned as establishing the butchering guidlines.
http://www.porkfoodservice.com/
If he butchers according to these guidlines, it's legal.. if not, it's not.

If you want to be safe with the "collar trimmed butt", Show up with full butts in their cryopacs and trim it down to whatever cut you wish as long as it's 5lbs still.

That in no way circumvents the rules as I understand them..
Don't think that's the site. Can't remember the exact name but it's the national pork board or something like that. An yway when the minutes are published it will be there. Next KCBS contest at the cooks meeting the reps should mention the new advisory as well.

And all you can cook is whole shoulder, picnic or butt and according to the US standards the "collar meat" is not part of one of these cuts.

Scottie
02-17-2011, 03:22 PM
it is the National Pork Board Ford.. I''ve got it on my computer now listening to this part again...

swamprb
02-17-2011, 06:34 PM
Niche Pork

http://www.pork.org/Programs/1062/NicheTeminology.aspx

More from the Pork Board-
"New Pork Cuts Appeal to Meat Processors"

http://www.pork.org/News/812/Feature497.aspx


Mission Statement from the Pork Board

http://www.pork.org/Programs/1066/NichePorkMissionStatement.aspx

I call BS!

Finney
02-17-2011, 06:53 PM
They better specify item numbers and not names...
If you get Item No. 403A - Pork Shoulder, Long Cut... then you have the extra meat and it is a STD cut. The description says nothing about it being for export.

roksmith
02-17-2011, 07:05 PM
Don't believe that one is going to be legal. I really hope when they come out with the official word it includes the numbers as well as the verbage. I'm under the assumption that the long cut will not be legal, only the regular cut.

roksmith
02-17-2011, 07:44 PM
Not to start a disagreement. But I think you need to listen to the entire Board Meeting. This cut is not recognized by the National Pork Board, which is the standard that the KCBS BOD are following. They are not recognizing the pork collar cut. So if you even have a specialty butcher cut it, it is still illegal....


But I'll let folks find that out themselves when they are busted and banned from the KCBS...

I guess the American version would be a Boneless Butt Cellar Trimmed 407 cut. I don't care if they call it a fruit loop cut. It it comes from a Standard 403 pork shoulder, it's fine.

swamprb
02-17-2011, 09:44 PM
Anyone else notice SRF is still selling 4lb Pork Collars?

Ford
02-18-2011, 06:21 AM
Anyone else notice SRF is still selling 4lb Pork Collars?
Nothing wrong with that. But if a cook uses one in KCBS that's a problem for them. They are cheating and if it's discovered then it's a 2 year ban on competition at a minimum. Not worth the risk.

Dustaway
02-18-2011, 07:58 AM
So when do you all think they will want to come around and weight the pork before it goes onto the pit? maybe they should start tagging the pork and have a representative come around before turn in and make sure that is what is being turned in?

Jorge
02-18-2011, 09:27 AM
So when do you all think they will want to come around and weight the pork before it goes onto the pit? maybe they should start tagging the pork and have a representative come around before turn in and make sure that is what is being turned in?

I've had that conversation with people in the last couple of weeks. If you do it for pork are you going to do it for the other categories? How long will it take to tag the 36 chicken thighs some people choose to cook? What do you think the 'tag fee' would end up being? Will we go to different turn in windows for different teams the way some 'tagged contests' are run?

It's a solution, but it's a complicated one to implement.

Dustaway
02-18-2011, 10:11 AM
I've had that conversation with people in the last couple of weeks. If you do it for pork are you going to do it for the other categories? How long will it take to tag the 36 chicken thighs some people choose to cook? What do you think the 'tag fee' would end up being? Will we go to different turn in windows for different teams the way some 'tagged contests' are run?

It's a solution, but it's a complicated one to implement.



It just depends on how far everyone is willing to go I believe a simple and more effective solution would be that they hire guy's like you to go around and police every team and if violators are found then before awards we line the perps up and execute them and grade your marksmanship skills......

swamprb
02-18-2011, 12:16 PM
Check out this weekly advertisement:

http://www.uwajimaya.com/weeklyspecials.html

Center cut Kurobata Pork Butt $5.99 lb.

I know of 60 cases of Boneless Pork Butt Collar Trim that is destined for Hot Pots in the Seattle area this week!

Wonder how they label it if you were to ask for the whole Butt? 5 pounds please!

Joe Average walks into the Meat Dept. of his Asian or Hispanic Market and asks for a 5lb Boneless Pork Butt that is the advertised special of the week, shows up at a comp and tell me again WTF the KCBS Reps are going to do????

Give me a break!

Alexa RnQ
02-18-2011, 12:32 PM
Somehow, it doesn't seem like it's been Joe Average that's been having trouble complying with the rules.

Nevertheless, it is incumbent on each cook to be aware of the rules and advisories, and comply accordingly.

Jorge
02-18-2011, 12:34 PM
Joe Average walks into the Meat Dept. of his Asian or Hispanic Market and asks for a 5lb Boneless Pork Butt that is the advertised special of the week, shows up at a comp and tell me again WTF the KCBS Reps are going to do????

Give me a break!

I guess I'm missing your point. What is it, and what is your proposed solution?

I'll wait to read the Rep Advisory to see if it reflects what I heard from the BoD meeting.

Based on your question....if the Rep recognizes that somebody has shown up with a cut that isn't legal they won't approve it. Next question?:redface::becky:

Smoke'n Ice
02-18-2011, 04:49 PM
I have never had a "rep" inspect my meat. It is always someone from the organizer. Some times when I arrive and have the meat inspected, the rep is no where to be seen. Just saying, this will prove almost impossible to police and enforce. I still think it is up the the integrity of the cooks and it they don't have any, then they will do what ever they think is necessary to win.

Christ, the easy way around it is go to Sam's, buy a double pack of cryovac pork butts and have them inspected all season. As long as you keep them cold, they won't grow much mold and the cryovac will keep the odor intact. Keep your real item somewhere else. It really is that simple to cheat. I might recommend that at the end of the season, dispose of the meat at a toxic waste facility:laugh:

roksmith
02-18-2011, 06:35 PM
Cheaters are still going to cheat, but now at least the honest folks will know for sure what is and is not legal.

JD McGee
02-18-2011, 07:04 PM
Exactly why folks use it for slicing... Plus the white meat (loin) it surrounded by darkmeat as well. So you get the best of both worlds. White loin meat, surrounded by dark meat and fat...

Sounds like a killer Money Muscle to me...and for those folks that do combo boxes...a possible advantage in taste and texture (which...I think...is the reason for this discussion)...:confused:

swamprb
02-18-2011, 09:49 PM
I guess I'm missing your point. What is it, and what is your proposed solution?

I'll wait to read the Rep Advisory to see if it reflects what I heard from the BoD meeting.

Based on your question....if the Rep recognizes that somebody has shown up with a cut that isn't legal they won't approve it. Next question?:redface::becky:


All that I am trying to get across is that around here, they are being sold as Boneless Korobuta Pork Butts.

I have no solution, I'm a consumer, they were offered to me as Boneless Butts to try, and I made sure they weighed 5lbs or more.

As a competitor, I feel I followed the rules at the time. Unlike those that ordered 4lb. Pork Collars from Snake River Farms.

At the time I figured they were Money muscle meat trimmed out. My butcher calls them CT Butts or close trim Butts, he never referred to them as Pork Collars, I just happened to see a packing carton from a slaughterhouse out of Iowa that said Boneless Pork Butt Collar Trim on the labels.

I'll never again them use them in a comp, and I admit I probably can't cook one for slicing that would be moist enough worth turning in anyway.

....now about that list of top teams??......

swamprb
02-19-2011, 10:55 PM
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/BSC%20Sausage/IMG_3343.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/BSC%20Sausage/IMG_3318.jpg

#407 cut from the shoulder

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/BSC%20Sausage/IMG_3316.jpg

Product of USA
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/BSC%20Sausage/IMG_3315.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/BSC%20Sausage/IMG_3314.jpg

Awaiting shipment for an advertised Weekly Special as Boneless Pork Butt at a local market.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/BSC%20Sausage/IMG_3313.jpg

Just sayin'.....

roksmith
02-20-2011, 08:15 AM
It seems to be terminology that folks don't like. A 407 cut should be fine not matter what the label says on it. Cellar trim, collar trim, center trim. I'd be willing to bet all 3 terms might be used interchangably by some butchers.

swamprb
02-20-2011, 12:05 PM
It seems to be terminology that folks don't like. A 407 cut should be fine not matter what the label says on it. Cellar trim, collar trim, center trim. I'd be willing to bet all 3 terms might be used interchangably by some butchers.

And probably more with the Niche or Heritage breeds.

swamprb
02-26-2011, 12:15 PM
http://www.kurobutameats.com/

Kurobuta Berkshire LLC
51600 295th Street
Austin, MN 55912

Phone: 507-440-6685
Fax: 800-507-0757
info@kurobutameats.com





Welcome to Kurobuta Berkshire LLC
Our mission is to provide our customers with the best tasting pork in the world. Customers desiring Berkshire pork expect the very best tasting natural pork. Kurobuta Berkshire LLC has a complete farm to customer quality program to ensure customer satisfaction. We provide sustainably produced, all natural quality pork products to elite foodservice customers.

Our pork products qualify for the American Berkshire Association 100% Pure Berkshire Pork label. This is the most comprehensive third party audit program available to Berkshire pork producers, chefs and consumers.

We provide pork products cut in the Japanese style as well as American pork cuts. We can supply true Kurobuta pork cuts such as single rib bellies, collar (CT) butts, boneless full loins, tenderloins and boneless hams.



Collar (CT) butts Single rib bellies

Value cuts for chefs.


Boneless sirloin chops/roasts Boneless top loin chops/roasts

Get the great Berkshire taste and tenderness with a reduced portion/serving cost by using these cuts on your menu.

We guarantee customer satisfaction with Kurobuta Berkshire LLC products.


Kurobuta Berkshire LLC
51600 295th Street
Austin, MN 55912

Phone: 507-440-6685
Fax: 800-507-0757
info@kurobutameats.com

Industry Links
National Pork Producers Council
http://www.nppc.org

National Pork Board
http://pork.org
http://www.theotherwhitemeat.com



American Berkshire Association
http://www.americanberkshire.com

US Meat Export Federation
http://www.usmef.org

http://www.kurobutameats.com/

roksmith
03-07-2011, 09:45 AM
OK.. so with the March 2011 Bullsheet article now out. Does is solve all questions?
Are 403, 403B, 403C, 404, 406, 406B, 406C, and 407 all legal cuts since they are all listed along with their descriptions? Or just the 404 and 406 cuts along with the picnic?

JD McGee
03-07-2011, 07:43 PM
This thread still alive...:rolleyes:

Excerpt from the KCBS Board Meeting Quick Notes (http://www.kcbs.us/news.php?id=327)...

Pork Collar Issue: Motion by Don Harwell that the board defines a boston butt, picnic or whole shoulder as defined by the National Pork Board which does not include the pork collar. Seconded by Paul Kirk, the vote was unanimous; motion passed.

roksmith
03-08-2011, 07:17 AM
Did you even read my post, or did you just have that reply handy for anything that showed up in this thread?

Nobody is questioning the Pork Collar ruling.. it's illegal.. we all know it.. whether is should be is like arguing the pot should be legal. Doesn't matter..it isn't.

My question was regarding the promised article that has now shown up in the MArch Bull Sheet in which the following cuts are listed as cuts we can all order 403, 403B, 403C, 404, 406, 406B, 406C, and 407.

My question is.. Are they all legal?
By the wording in the article, I would think so, but.....

Scottie
03-08-2011, 09:28 AM
Did you even read my post, or did you just have that reply handy for anything that showed up in this thread?

Nobody is questioning the Pork Collar ruling.. it's illegal.. we all know it.. whether is should be is like arguing the pot should be legal. Doesn't matter..it isn't.

My question was regarding the promised article that has now shown up in the MArch Bull Sheet in which the following cuts are listed as cuts we can all order 403, 403B, 403C, 404, 406, 406B, 406C, and 407.

My question is.. Are they all legal?
By the wording in the article, I would think so, but.....


Can I ask a stupid question? By no means am I trying to push this issue.

The board has ruled and I t think it is pretty clear their ruling... If not, go listen to the MP3. But why are you pushing this issue? I don't get it.

Thanks,

roksmith
03-08-2011, 09:50 AM
Not trying to push for anything Scottie. Part of what was said was that the article in the bullsheet would clarify their ruling. Here's what's in the article.

There has been quite a bit of controversy about BBQ Teams using what
is called a Pork Collar which is a European cut of pork. The help clarify
what is legal the KCBS uses the National Meat Processing Guide for it’s
definition of a Pork Butt or Pork Shoulder and here they are.
http://porkfoodservice.org/CutsByCategory.aspx?c=Butt
The numbers 403, 403B, 403C, 404, 406, 406B, 406C, and 407 are
the numbers that your meat supplier orders from the producers, so that
everybody can order the same product all over the country.


Sounds to me like Paul is saying these butt cuts are legal.
Am I reading it wrong?

Scottie
03-08-2011, 10:22 AM
no...

swamprb
03-08-2011, 10:19 PM
...must resist urge...

Slamdunkpro
03-08-2011, 10:39 PM
Not trying to push for anything Scottie. Part of what was said was that the article in the bullsheet would clarify their ruling. Here's what's in the article.

There has been quite a bit of controversy about BBQ Teams using what
is called a Pork Collar which is a European cut of pork. The help clarify
what is legal the KCBS uses the National Meat Processing Guide for itís
definition of a Pork Butt or Pork Shoulder and here they are.
http://porkfoodservice.org/CutsByCategory.aspx?c=Butt
The numbers 403, 403B, 403C, 404, 406, 406B, 406C, and 407 are
the numbers that your meat supplier orders from the producers, so that
everybody can order the same product all over the country.


Sounds to me like Paul is saying these butt cuts are legal.
Am I reading it wrong?
Just a little more gasoline on the fire.......

I showed this thread and the cut descriptions to my wife, the veterinarian. Her comment was that these descriptions are anatomical gibberish when it comes to where the animal is broken. One example is in the 403 description they reference the knee. The knee is on the back leg folks. She also points out that there are no front to back references defined. She suggests that if KCBS wants total clarity it should be written:

Legal pork shall consist of IMPS shoulder #403 and it's derivatives ( 403B, 403C, 404, 406, 406B, 406C, and 407) where the animal has been broken no further rostral than Cervical vertebra C3 and no further caudal than thoracic vertebra T1 (the first rostral rib).

This would leave no wiggle room what so ever.

fishinchef
03-23-2011, 09:48 PM
Simple answer to this dilema is have the event provide the meat, then all is fair

swamprb
03-24-2011, 01:04 AM
Even I, the pot stirrer, has beaten this poor horse to death!