Gas and Electric at Comps?????

[The_Kapn]

First off, this thread is meant for serious and rational discussion.
I am the last person to "stir up stuff", and that is not my intent here.
I actually have a real reason to ask---believe it or not :redface:

#1. Does anyone know (for sure) the historical reason that Gas and Electric smokers are not allowed by most bodies???
I guess it started with KCBS since they appear to be the oldest.
This will probably take someone with the long association with Comp BBQ like DRBBQ or Jim Minion to answer, but thought I would ask.

#2. Does anyone know of a current "Rational" reason why Gas and Electric is not allowed in comps?????

"Gas safety" can not be a reason because we allow turkey fryers, weedburners, and all of that.

Now, I know some folks feel that gas and electric does not produce "real" BBQ.
I will accept that as their opinion, but.....
If that is true, we should not "fear" them competing.
They would only add to the "purse" available to the "real" cookers. :-D:-D

It seems to me that allowing gas and electric would add to the number of entrants and possibly open the door for more sponsorship options from the gas and electric smoker manufacturers, much like Kingsford is developing now.

I know it is winter and all of that.
But, I would really appreciate it if we could focus on "real" reasons and not opinions.
I know we can do this :-D

Thanks in Advance.

TIM

[Buster Dog BBQ]

I can speak a little for gas. They had a non sanctioned contest here in Iowa that was pellets vs gas. The gas had to be models like Old Hickory with an emergency shutoff. Yes, the concern was someone blowing up their propane tank or the firebox.

[Bentley]

I believe it has someting to do with the belief that "True" BBQ is defined as meats cooked over charcoal, lump or hardwood. I tried to find something to that effect on the KCBS web site, but could not.

As far as why it is not allowed in the present...I guess see above, I think folks should be able to deep fry their ribs if they think it will give them the best tasting BBQ.

[Ford]

I can speak a little for gas. They had a non sanctioned contest here in Iowa that was pellets vs gas. The gas had to be models like Old Hickory with an emergency shutoff. Yes, the concern was someone blowing up their propane tank or the firebox.
We just got fire dept inspected here in FL for contests we did. They didn't ask about the propane tanks on the front for the water heater but once you start cooking with gas it's probably going to be a little different. I understand why they want the emergency shutoff. If the Fire Dept requires a Florida inspected fire extinguisher and fire retardant tags on canopies and tents then gas cookers are going to be inspected for safety. Nothing that isn't UL rated is likely to get passed.

Electric does not have these problems so it should be legal. Of course that's just my opinion.

[boogiesnap]

safety isuues aside(i mean we're talking live fires here)
from a cooking standpoint, if pellet poopers are allowed, then, gas and electric should be as well.

[TooSaucedToPork]

The way it has been explained to me in the past is it is not the real way to make BBQ. In the begining there was fire...fire from wood and by proxy, charcoal. Now I have been told that the powers that be, we shall call them the BBQ Gods, sent forth a list of rules at the first BBQ Contests. Now, as I am a newbie to KCBS, I can only speak for the Memphis in May competition. Since the contest's inception in 1977, only wood and charcoal have been allowed. When pellets were introduced they were allowed because they are made from wood, and they smoulder and burn like wood. Honestly, there is no skill in gas and electric cooking. That is the reason I have been given for many years when asked this exact question.

You set a thermostat and it burns the same, keeps the same heat, and is very reliable...but so are many of the newer stick, pellet, and coal burners...I honestly think it is because the original MIM definitition of BBQ is "Barbeque is defined as pork meat (fresh or frozen and uncured) prepared only on a wood and/or charcoal fire, basted or not as the cook sees fit, with any non-poisonous substances and sauces as the cook believes necessary. "

and that is that

Neil Gallagher
Too Sauced To Pork

[Buster Dog BBQ]

Hopefully someone can correct me on this but last year wasn't their a vote on allowing gas smokers which missed passing by 1 or 2 votes? When you have guys already cooking on stuff like CTO's, you might as well allow gas. But as Ford said, you need an emergency shut off. Maybe KCBS BOD is waiting till they can lure some big $$$ from a natural gas company.

[Rub]

Wish I knew the answers, but I've been a proponent of allowing any and all methods for a long time.

[drbbq]

I believe it has something to do with the belief that "True" BBQ is defined as meats cooked over charcoal, lump or hardwood.


I think that is it. It's been that way as far back as I know and I think it's always been this way.

[smokincracker]

Wish I knew the answers, but I've been a proponent of allowing any and all methods for a long time.


I agree RUB "Bring It"
Hello friends
I’m of the opinion that perhaps we are consciously trying to protect the roots of American BBQ culture. We all know the story that BBQ is America’s only original cuisine. All these BBQ “regions” and styles have evolved and developed over the years but none of these BBQ styles have developed around Gas or Electric cookers….enlighten me if I’m wrong...

[bbqbull]

Isn't that how Cookshack got their start?
An electric smoker that burned hardwood for cooking briskets?
I a man ones one electric or gas smoker, I believe he should be allowed to compete in a sanctioned contest. He probably is just starting out as a new bbq person and possibly can't afford a second smoker. She he be prohibited from a contest?

[Hawg Father of Seoul]

I agree RUB "Bring It"
Hello friends
I’m of the opinion that perhaps we are consciously trying to protect the roots of American BBQ culture. We all know the story that BBQ is America’s only original cuisine. All these BBQ “regions” and styles have evolved and developed over the years but none of these BBQ styles have developed around Gas or Electric cookers….enlighten me if I’m wrong...

Cool, rid of the pellet poopers too.

I mean, by your logic ................ (not by mine)

[Hawg Father of Seoul]

Should BBQ be a rich man's sport? Look at the price of some of these smokers.

$400+ dollars to play the game one time and knowing you are about to get beat. Give people a break.

[JD McGee]

I believe it to be (above all) a matter of tradition...:thumb: That said I also believe it is the cook...not the cooker ultimately responsible for good or bad BBQ. I say let them in...let the judges decide what tastes better...:cool:

From Wikipedia... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbecue_in_the_United_States#The_origins_of_barbe cue_tradition)

In the United States (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/wiki/United_States), especially the southeastern region, barbecue (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/wiki/Barbecue) (also spelled barbeque or abbreviated BBQ) refers to a technique of cooking that involves cooking meat for long periods of time at low temperatures over a wood fire; often this is called pit barbecue, and the facility for cooking it is the barbecue pit. This form of cooking adds a distinctive smoky taste to the meat; barbecue sauce (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/wiki/Barbecue_sauce), while a common accompaniment, is not required for many styles.[1] (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/#cite_note-sociology-0)

[RICK Allen]

I start my stick burner with gas I guess That should ban me???

[Jorge]

I don't know many cooks that are successful at competition BBQ that would run from gas or electric cookers. One of the best lines I've ever read on a BBQ forum came from a Jack Champion regarding a propane only contest a few years ago. I think it was "I only regret that I won't have the opportunity to whoop your gas burning ass!:)". Let the judges determine what good BBQ is.

I don't know that propane is any more dangerous than a drunk guy around a WSM.

[smokaholic]

its not the price of the smokers. I bought a $35 used new braunfels 2yrs ago and used it to compete last year and placed top 10 in brisket in the 2 events I went to. The cook makes the food not the smoker.

This thread is going to make my head explode LOL. All I want to say is I dont like pellet smokers but I can see why they are allowed. As far as propane goes, if its ever allowed in KCBS, Im out.
Also expensive smokers are just guys with hobbies keeping up with the cool new toy of the year. You cant tell me that an expensive smoker will make the food taste any better than if its cooked the same way on something much cheaper.

[Alexa RnQ]

I don't know that propane is any more dangerous than a drunk guy around a WSM.
The drunk that kicks over a WSM is likely going to harm mostly himself. A propane tank could take out a few more.

For that matter, I have been witness to a fairly spectacular pellet cooker explosion that made me gunshy for quite awhile.

[HoDeDo]

The Dr. is correct, it has been that way as long as I can remember as well. I believe it is due to the fact, that most definitions include that BBQ is cooked over some type of wood fire. It was a K.I.S.S. line in the sand.

As far as propane as a source for cooking vs. starting: Fryers, weed burners and the like, while dangerous, do not have the same effect as having a large vessel to collect the fuel in, and ignite it in a mass explosion. The original LP Que, and the last one... required that any gas system be UL rated, I believe, and it had to include an igniter, thermocouple, checkvalve, etc. The problem with some of the propane assist systems that you see on some offsets, is, they can allow gas to settle into the bottom of the cooker and stay -- they do not have an integrated ignition source, or safety valve... If gas were to pool up, and you stick an ignition source in the cooker... BOOM! If a pit were to go out, without some sort of safety valve in place, it could cause serious injury. Even using it for ignition only can be troublesome. I think Fitzy put pics of his bates pit after the door was blown off - this was like 2006 or 2007, so they would be in an old thread... but he was lucky to survive the blast..

Should BBQ be a rich man's sport? Look at the price of some of these smokers.
$400+ dollars to play the game one time and knowing you are about to get beat. Give people a break.

The Royal (and lots of other contests) have been won on a pair of barrels, cooking against all kinds of pits, many of which are well over $10K to buy. I think it is the cook, not the cooker...If you go in knowing you are going to get beat, hopefully your goal is camaraderie and making new friends. otherwise I hope you are competing to win. Either way, it is still cheaper than owning a boat :clap2:

[HoDeDo]

I don't know many cooks that are successful at competition BBQ that would run from gas or electric cookers. One of the best lines I've ever read on a BBQ forum came from a Jack Champion regarding a propane only contest a few years ago. I think it was "I only regret that I won't have the opportunity to whoop your gas burning ass!:)". Let the judges determine what good BBQ is.

I don't know that propane is any more dangerous than a drunk guy around a WSM.

Unless that drunk guy is wielding a propane torch .... :twisted:

[rksylves]

My opinion....

Gas and electric add NOTHING to the flavor game except as a heat source. It takes NO repeat NO skill at all to run electric or gas. How hard is it to set the thermostat, start the timer, and go to bed. May as well cook it at home and then have it delivered to the comp. BORING!!!

Let's look into the crystal ball a bit. One person shows up to the cook site, parks the trailer, turns on the electricity, loads the meats into the electric cookers, then leaves to go to the hotel. Later that evening he turns on the cookers remotely via 3G on his laptop from the hotel room. He then goes to bed. The next morning he leisurely gets up, eats breakfast, and then drives out to the site around 10:00. He turns in his 4 boxes and then goes home. Wow, that's exciting.

Learning how to make a good cooking fire and control it while adding flavor much like a spice is a skill that must be learned.

If they start allowing those types of cookers then I'm out.

Russ

[bignburlyman]

I don't know many cooks that are successful at competition BBQ that would run from gas or electric cookers. One of the best lines I've ever read on a BBQ forum came from a Jack Champion regarding a propane only contest a few years ago. I think it was "I only regret that I won't have the opportunity to whoop your gas burning ass!:)". Let the judges determine what good BBQ is.



I know many people "claim" to be able to taste when something is cooked on gas. Great for them, and I don't question they can, but I am not sure my pallette is quite as discerning. If a gas smoker (grill) also used wood chips or chunks for smoke, the smoke flavor is there, otherwise the lack of smoke would be distinct and a difference would be noticible that way. Maintaining tradition is great and I respect that. But allowing additional heat sources would grow (my opinion only) the pool of cooks that might be interested in competing.

And by the way, I cook (don't compete as of now) on a pellet cooker.

[Juggy D Beerman]

I believe it has someting to do with the belief that "True" BBQ is defined as meats cooked over charcoal, lump or hardwood. I tried to find something to that effect on the KCBS web site, but could not.

As far as why it is not allowed in the present...I guess see above, I think folks should be able to deep fry their ribs if they think it will give them the best tasting BBQ.

Bentley, You can thank me for that silly rule that outlaws deep frying. It took me three years to get that stipulation passed, but I got it done. Deep frying has nothing to do with BBQ. They are two different styles of cooking. I have eaten deep fried ribs before and they tasted pretty good, but they sure weren't BBQed ribs.

As for the rest of your statement, that part I will agree with. The rule outlawing gas and electric cookers comes more out of tradition than safety. I have been a KCBS member (off and on) since 1991. I remember when pellet cookers were finally deemed to be legal to cook on. At one time, they were not defined as being legal to cook on.

[Sawdustguy]

My opinion....

Gas and electric add NOTHING to the flavor game except as a heat source. It takes NO repeat NO skill at all to run electric or gas. How hard is it to set the thermostat, start the timer, and go to bed. May as well cook it at home and then have it delivered to the comp. BORING!!!

Let's look into the crystal ball a bit. One person shows up to the cook site, parks the trailer, turns on the electricity, loads the meats into the electric cookers, then leaves to go to the hotel. Later that evening he turns on the cookers remotely via 3G on his laptop from the hotel room. He then goes to bed. The next morning he leisurely gets up, eats breakfast, and then drives out to the site around 10:00. He turns in his 4 boxes and then goes home. Wow, that's exciting.

Learning how to make a good cooking fire and control it while adding flavor much like a spice is a skill that must be learned.

If they start allowing those types of cookers then I'm out.

Russ

Well Russ I guess it's about time for you to retire because that type of technology is already here. All you need to do is light the charcoal in an insulated cooker like a Spicewine or Backwoods and control the whole thing with a Stoker. Just load the cooker with your meat, go to the hotel and you can control and monitor the whole thing via Wide Area Network if the contest is in a hotspot or use your smart phone as a modem. Opinions may never change but technology waits for no one.

[Sweet Breathe BBQ]

safety isuues aside(i mean we're talking live fires here)
from a cooking standpoint, if pellet poopers are allowed, then, gas and electric should be as well.

Reaons being, "pellet poopers" use wood as a sole heat source, as opposed to gas or an electrical heating element. Sure the arguement can be made that rather than a person maintaining the heat it's done by an electrically run auger. Not much different than a BBQ Guru or Stoker!?!

It's been said in here previously, it's the cook not the cooker. You can be the best stickburner, pellet pooper, or gas burner in the world but if you can't make it taste good you're not going to win.

I prefer to compete against people at their best to see how my best stacks up. As far as I'm concerned people can bring their damn Jenn Air range from home if that's what they cook their best on. It's not going to effect how I cook my food. I do what I do b/c I have fun doing it.

Just my 2 cents

[Divemaster]

I believe it has someting to do with the belief that "True" BBQ is defined as meats cooked over charcoal, lump or hardwood. I tried to find something to that effect on the KCBS web site, but could not.

I think that is it. It's been that way as far back as I know and I think it's always been this way.

I believe it to be (above all) a matter of tradition...:thumb: That said I also believe it is the cook...not the cooker ultimately responsible for good or bad BBQ. I say let them in...let the judges decide what tastes better...:cool:

From Wikipedia... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbecue_in_the_United_States#The_origins_of_barbe cue_tradition)

In the United States (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/wiki/United_States), especially the southeastern region, barbecue (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/wiki/Barbecue) (also spelled barbeque or abbreviated BBQ) refers to a technique of cooking that involves cooking meat for long periods of time at low temperatures over a wood fire; often this is called pit barbecue, and the facility for cooking it is the barbecue pit. This form of cooking adds a distinctive smoky taste to the meat; barbecue sauce (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/wiki/Barbecue_sauce), while a common accompaniment, is not required for many styles.[1] (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/#cite_note-sociology-0)

Tradition was the reason they gave at the rules meeting this last weekend. The other reason was safety around home made gas cookers. The question was raised as to how a Rep could verify the safety standards on such a cooker...

Hopefully someone can correct me on this but last year wasn't their a vote on allowing gas smokers which missed passing by 1 or 2 votes? When you have guys already cooking on stuff like CTO's, you might as well allow gas. But as Ford said, you need an emergency shut off. Maybe KCBS BOD is waiting till they can lure some big $$$ from a natural gas company.
I don't think the vote was nearly that close...

[Bentley]

Dayum, I did not even know you could deep fry a rib! A Twinkie and a candy bar sure, but a rib...

[JiveTurkey]

Whatever the KCBS decides they better make a decision fast to allow or not to prevent the discussion from festering into a full blown issue. I'm no purist by any means but I'd like to see the KCBS go in a different direction and say not only are gas and electric not allowed but neither is anything that requires power to create heat, meaning so long Guru, Stoker, and anything connected to power. Yes that might hurt some companies bottom line but what is the motivation of the KCBS, money or BBQ?

Disclaimer: I write this as a Guru owner but I would not be concerned if I could not use it since I knew how to BBQ (most of the time) before I bought the darn thing.

[stlgreg]

Dayum, I did not even know you could deep fry a rib! A Twinkie and a candy bar sure, but a rib...


Sure Can!

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/the-best-of/deep-fried-ribs-recipe/index.html

[Buster Dog BBQ]

Don't get why people are so against pellet cookers? It's really no different then using a guru or stoker. Just a different type of fuel source but same principal. Not to hijack this thread but my FEC-100 is the best solution for me at a contest because I can do 3 meats in one cooker. I used to haul 3 cookers and it wasn't practical. It's also the best solution at home because it's easy to use for my wife.

I don't care if KCBS opens it up so people can compete with anything. Bottom line is we are cooking BBQ and good BBQ will rise to the top no matter what it's cooked on.

[Divemaster]

Don't get why people are so against pellet cookers? It's really no different then using a guru or stoker. Just a different type of fuel source but same principal. Not to hijack this thread but my FEC-100 is the best solution for me at a contest because I can do 3 meats in one cooker. I used to haul 3 cookers and it wasn't practical. It's also the best solution at home because it's easy to use for my wife.

I don't care if KCBS opens it up so people can compete with anything. Bottom line is we are cooking BBQ and good BBQ will rise to the top no matter what it's cooked on.
I bring out my Lang and cook all 4 meats on one cooker.

[The_Kapn]

Thanks for the input so far guys.

TIM

[Gerrit_Boys]

I know many people "claim" to be able to taste when something is cooked on gas. Great for them, and I don't question they can, but I am not sure my pallette is quite as discerning.

Hank Hill: "Strickland Propane. Taste the meat, not the heat."

[sitnfat]

Let them cook in the backyard class. In my opinion real BBQ isnt cooked on any kind of gas flame if you want to compete in a professional class you should cook with a wood or charcoal fire.it won't cost them a lot to try their hand and see if they like competing.

[KC_Bobby]

Is it spring yet?

[boogiesnap]

cook on what you will. i have no issue whatsover with peller poopers, gas, or electric.
BUT
does anybody that use these start their fire in a chimney?
NO.
so there is the answer to both the difference in using a stoker in say a WSM, AND why electric and gas SHOULD be allowed.

[Bunny]

I believe it has someting to do with the belief that "True" BBQ is defined as meats cooked over charcoal, lump or hardwood. I tried to find something to that effect on the KCBS web site, but could not.

As far as why it is not allowed in the present...I guess see above, I think folks should be able to deep fry their ribs if they think it will give them the best tasting BBQ.

Ford, you are right. It is barbecue defined by the US government.

Barbecued meats, such as product labeled "Beef Barbecue" or "Barbecue Pork" shall be cooked by the direct action of dry heat resulting from the burning of hard wood or the hot coals therefrom for a sufficient period to assume the usual characteristics of a barbecued article, which include the formation of a brown crust on the surface and the rendering of surface fat. The prouct may be basted with a sauce during the cooking process. The weight of the barbecue meat shall not exceeld 70 percent of the Weight of the uncooked meat. 9 CFR, Part 319, Subpart C, Sec. 319.80 Revised as of January 1, 1985

[Bunny]

I believe it has someting to do with the belief that "True" BBQ is defined as meats cooked over charcoal, lump or hardwood. I tried to find something to that effect on the KCBS web site, but could not.

As far as why it is not allowed in the present...I guess see above, I think folks should be able to deep fry their ribs if they think it will give them the best tasting BBQ.

Sorry....I mean Bently.:redface:

[Sweet Breathe BBQ]

cook on what you will. i have no issue whatsover with peller poopers, gas, or electric.
BUT
does anybody that use these start their fire in a chimney?
NO.
so there is the answer to both the difference in using a stoker in say a WSM, AND why electric and gas SHOULD be allowed.

I know many teams that use charcoal or stickburners that don't start their fires in a chimney. They use torches, weed burners and other means. For that matter you can start pellets without the electric hot rod. Throw some pellets in the firepot add a little gel light and you have fire.

For the record we use charcoal and chimneys as well.

[Lake Dogs]

Wish I knew the answers, but I've been a proponent of allowing any and all methods for a long time.

I rather agree with you Rob. However, IMHO, it's where they drew the line
in the sand to help define what IS barbecue vs. how it's actually cooked.

Meaning, if we change the line, what defines barbecue? If someone then
uses their electric crockpot, is the result barbecue? One might debate
that it's better left up to judges. THAT point I'll debate all day long, and
I'm of the judge ilk. If Bobby Ray wants to submit his boiled rib or crock
pot butt in KC Masterpiece, generally I'm fine with it. But if it gets judged
worth a darn, then I beg to differ. I'm of the opinion that they, the
founding fathers of most of the sanctioning bodies, saw the wisdom in
defining what is and isn't barbecue and kept it to being cooked the old
fashioned/natural way, over wood or a wood product.

And how is a crock pot relevant in this discussion, you ask? It's tough
to define the difference between an electric bbq cooker of some type
and something else akin to a crock pot, that's how. It gets very gray...

Frankly, to me, the boiled rib and the crock pot butt, not matter what
sauce you slather on it, isn't barbecue, by definition of what is and isn't
barbecue. It may be delicious, but it's not barbecue, IMHO.

[boogiesnap]

I know many teams that use charcoal or stickburners that don't start their fires in a chimney. They use torches, weed burners and other means. For that matter you can start pellets without the electric hot rod. Throw some pellets in the firepot add a little gel light and you have fire.

For the record we use charcoal and chimneys as well.


i'm sure you know what i mean though.

[Sweet Breathe BBQ]

I hear ya. I'm just sayin' there's always going to be an inequity in smokers. Our first comp was done on two charbroil bullets and a smokin' pit pro, team next to us was cooking on a Jambo Pit. The cost of our smokers couldn't even buy a spare tire for that pit. Unless everyone cooks on the same equipment that is always going to be a factor. I always view it as more of a challenge to produce better bbq on lesser equipment. Granted being new to competing, we have plenty of other challenges to overcome. LOL

[Buster Dog BBQ]

I hear ya. I'm just sayin' there's always going to be an inequity in smokers. Our first comp was done on two charbroil bullets and a smokin' pit pro, team next to us was cooking on a Jambo Pit. The cost of our smokers couldn't even buy a spare tire for that pit. Unless everyone cooks on the same equipment that is always going to be a factor. I always view it as more of a challenge to produce better bbq on lesser equipment. Granted being new to competing, we have plenty of other challenges to overcome. LOL
I would argue that point all day. The inequality is in the ease of use, thickness of steel, capacity and insulation I've seen guys with UDS that won and I have seen guys fly into a contest and borrow equipment and win. I've seen plenty of Jambo owners not win. By your logic Jambo owners should win every contest and all finish at the top because they are the highest priced smokers. All it means is you might have to put a blanket on the smoker to hold in the heat and maybe burn a little more fuel. This year's top 10 KCBS only one team was Jambo all the way that I know of and that was Pellet Envy.

When I go to a contest I know anyone can win. My focus isn't on what's my neighbor got that I don't. He could have a Jambo, Snake River briskets, 15lb money muscles, perfectly straight ribs and plump chicken. But if I pay attention to details and stick to my game plan I will have just as much chance of winning then he does. Again, this goes back to the cook not the cooker and there are plenty of cookers out there you can point to own cookers that don't cost over $1,000.

Sorry, not trying to stir up anything here, just clarifying you don't need anything fancy to win.

[Sweet Breathe BBQ]

That was exactly my point, that you can win on anything. That even if you restrict smokers to stick burners or charcoal you're still going to have a wide range of smokers some fancier than others, but that it doesn't matter. Some people go to comps to have fun others see it as a business. Each person/team gets something different out of competing otherwise they wouldn't do it.
I am going to worry about myself, I'm not going to worry what my neighbor is doing. The only reason that I piped up in the first place is b/c I love bbq and I love competing and I dont' think someone should tell me that I shouldn't be able to use my Traeger Jr to cook my chicken on.

[KC_Bobby]

I hear ya. I'm just sayin' there's always going to be an inequity in smokers. Our first comp was done on two charbroil bullets and a smokin' pit pro, team next to us was cooking on a Jambo Pit. The cost of our smokers couldn't even buy a spare tire for that pit. Unless everyone cooks on the same equipment that is always going to be a factor. I always view it as more of a challenge to produce better bbq on lesser equipment. Granted being new to competing, we have plenty of other challenges to overcome. LOL

I think the bigger factor is the BBQ knowledge of the person using the equipment rather than the expense of the equipment.

[CBQ]

cook on what you will. i have no issue whatsover with peller poopers, gas, or electric.
BUT
does anybody that use these start their fire in a chimney?
NO.
so there is the answer to both the difference in using a stoker in say a WSM, AND why electric and gas SHOULD be allowed.

Not sure the startup process should make a difference.

I use a Stoker on my Klose stickburner, and I can light it by putting some charcoal in, holding a cigar lighter to one piece of charcoal, and letting the forced draft do the rest.

An FEC with a broken igniter can be started before the controller is on by using gel or a MAP torch, so kind of a fuzzy line there.

[Grizmt]

I rather agree with you Rob. However, IMHO, it's where they drew the line
in the sand to help define what IS barbecue vs. how it's actually cooked.

Meaning, if we change the line, what defines barbecue? If someone then
uses their electric crockpot, is the result barbecue? One might debate
that it's better left up to judges. THAT point I'll debate all day long, and
I'm of the judge ilk. If Bobby Ray wants to submit his boiled rib or crock
pot butt in KC Masterpiece, generally I'm fine with it. But if it gets judged
worth a darn, then I beg to differ. I'm of the opinion that they, the
founding fathers of most of the sanctioning bodies, saw the wisdom in
defining what is and isn't barbecue and kept it to being cooked the old
fashioned/natural way, over wood or a wood product.

And how is a crock pot relevant in this discussion, you ask? It's tough
to define the difference between an electric bbq cooker of some type
and something else akin to a crock pot, that's how. It gets very gray...

Frankly, to me, the boiled rib and the crock pot butt, not matter what
sauce you slather on it, isn't barbecue, by definition of what is and isn't
barbecue. It may be delicious, but it's not barbecue, IMHO.
I've got a question, if the idea is to remain true to "old fashioned" bbq then how does chicken cooked in a foil pan swimming in butter fit in to "old fashioned" bbq? Seems to me this method is not much different then using a gas grill and a dutch oven or just placing a dutch oven in charcoal. Certainly not in the spirit of historic bbq in my opinion as the only time it touches a bbq is just to put marks on it.
So if they're allowing this why restrict the heat source? Isn't it being a bit hypocritical?
If sticking as close to the spirit of old time bbq is the main idea then they should ban muffin tins, foil pans or anything that is not a natural item touching the meat like tin foil wraps,injectors etc.
Instead use things like banana leaves and burlap, things that were used way back when.
I think bbq should be work, you should have the risk of burning or drying out your meat because you didn't tend the smoker well enough or have mal-formed tough chicken because you didn't spend enough time or care when trimming or cooking it.
Isn't that what this sport is supposed to be all about? You,meat,fire and skill? Not who has foil,foil pans,electronic computer controlled blowers,injections etc?
I love it when I see a team using a plain UDS or WSM cook old school and get a walk!
Just my 2 cents...

[The_Kapn]

Thanks Guys for some good thoughts.

Have enough to proceed on with a project I am working on.

Appreciate it.

TIM