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View Full Version : Packaging and selling sauce and rubs and sauces


dataz722
10-27-2010, 05:05 PM
I am just wondering what all would be involved in packaging and selling your own sauce and/or rubs. I know some of you do it, so what hoops did you have to jump through first?

Southern Home Boy
10-27-2010, 05:14 PM
How much do you want to sell and where do you want to sell it?

FDA will mandate some of your requirements depending on the quantity you plan on selling and State and Local laws will also come into play with regards to things like liability insurance.

You should check with your local HD to see what's required in your area.

dataz722
10-27-2010, 05:16 PM
Any idea where, if anywhere, local requirement are online. I spent quite a while looking on both the state and county websites and couldn't find anything.

dataz722
10-27-2010, 05:17 PM
And if any mod happens to stumble in here could you please fix the thread title. No need to sell sauce twice. :doh:

Southern Home Boy
10-27-2010, 05:32 PM
I'd jsut call the Health department and tell them what you want to do. They'll give yo uall sorts of resources.

Another option is to work with a co-packer. It's more expensive, but they take care of all of that crap for you.

dataz722
10-27-2010, 05:41 PM
I'd jsut call the Health department and tell them what you want to do. They'll give yo uall sorts of resources.

Another option is to work with a co-packer. It's more expensive, but they take care of all of that crap for you.

I never even thought about that. Might have to see if there are any around here.

Ford
10-27-2010, 05:53 PM
I'd jsut call the Health department and tell them what you want to do. They'll give yo uall sorts of resources.

Another option is to work with a co-packer. It's more expensive, but they take care of all of that crap for you.
Most folks use a co-packer. Otherwise you are dealing with setting up a USDAl approved facility to market across State lines. I've heard estimates of 100k to 250k to setup a facility like this.

This is a good starting point http://www.fsis.usda.gov/index.asp

dataz722
10-27-2010, 06:09 PM
Most folks use a co-packer. Otherwise you are dealing with setting up a USDAl approved facility to market across State lines. I've heard estimates of 100k to 250k to setup a facility like this.

This is a good starting point http://www.fsis.usda.gov/index.asp

I knew dealing with the USDA would be a hassles but I had no clue it would be that expensive. Looks like a copacker it is. So do I just give them a recipe and they handle everything?

Anybody have any estimates of cost and minimum orders for dealing with a packer? I'm sure it varies drastically but just looking for a rough idea.

3 Rivers BBQ
10-27-2010, 07:41 PM
I have been working on getting my sauce bottled and it is so much red tape between local, state and federal regulations. The min. for copackers is anywhere from 75 to 200 gallons for first time, plus process fee, package fee...etc. I suggest to cost out how much you can produce a gallon of your sauce, so you can get an ideal of approx. cost per bottle(12 or 16 oz). Don't cost yourself out of the average sauce price. This comes from personal experience.

big brother smoke
10-27-2010, 08:28 PM
I have been working on getting my sauce bottled and it is so much red tape between local, state and federal regulations. The min. for copackers is anywhere from 75 to 200 gallons for first time, plus process fee, package fee...etc. I suggest to cost out how much you can produce a gallon of your sauce, so you can get an ideal of approx. cost per bottle(12 or 16 oz). Don't cost yourself out of the average sauce price. This comes from personal experience.

Amen!

A Co-Packer is the way to go.

5-0 BBQ
10-28-2010, 03:28 AM
I have been doing my own sauce and rub line for about five years now. I use a co-packer down here in MD for my Sauce and I am fortunate that my family owns a company in CT that produces my rub.

I have done a ton of research and with having my family in the business of wholesale and retail food since the 1950's I could get you going in the right direction.

Send me a PM and I will get you my number or it is also on my web-site.

billm
10-28-2010, 09:33 AM
ditto on co-packer..try and find one with the smallest minimum run until you know you can sell the stuff

Southern Home Boy
10-28-2010, 11:22 AM
Here's a co-packer I've talked to before:

http://www.arcobasso.com/Home/tabid/38/Default.aspx

They're in St. Louis, but they offer their services nationwide.

Their minimum production run is 160 gallons, and they say that an average ketchup-based BBQ sauce will run about $3,000. But they also include a lot of services with that.

Good luck.

dataz722
10-28-2010, 12:31 PM
Is that $3000 plus cost of ingredients or is that cost of 160 gallons out the door? I was expecting it to be more than that. Do they do dry goods as well like rubs?

Southern Home Boy
10-28-2010, 03:30 PM
Is that $3000 plus cost of ingredients or is that cost of 160 gallons out the door? I was expecting it to be more than that. Do they do dry goods as well like rubs?

That's on average out the door (you pick up: Delivery is more), and unfortunately, they don't do spices or rub mixes. Only sauces.

5-0 BBQ
10-28-2010, 07:11 PM
There are a few places near us here in the mid-atlantic. Most of the time you will find one company to do the rubs and one to do the sauce. Not often will you find one that does wet and dry.

My sauce is done by Mama Vida in Randallstown, MD

dataz722
10-28-2010, 07:16 PM
Thanks 5-0. I might call around a couple places next week.

5-0 BBQ
10-28-2010, 07:57 PM
Give me a shout if you need any help.

JohnJ
10-28-2010, 08:02 PM
Having had poor luck with co-packers, I thought I might add my .02 cents to your information gathering stage.

I have tried working with several co-packers, one in Wisconsin and the other locals. You really need to work out your recipe into core easy to obtain 'components' and do not use other condiments to create your sauce as that is or can be very problematic. You really must weigh each ingredient for a recipe that makes one to five gallons of sauce and include at least a 40 minute boil/cook time. It may cook down more than you would like and can change the flavor profile. Everything in weight, not in cups or teaspoons etc.

If you do not have a recipe with generic ingredients, expect to spend over a thousand dollars to have them recreate your recipe from your kitchen recipe. I did that with one and I was so disappointed. One sample they sent me had to be a mistake as it was no where close. After several tries they were going to charge me another 300 or 500 (I forget how much now) for another round. I finally went to their lab and helped out and that result was close but the guy added way too much tomato paste and I wasn't going to accept what came out for production and wanted another test batch. Another 300. THEN his minimum for his first quote of 3000 bottles was at $45 a case of 12! Then it came down to 2.08 a bottle. I didn't use them. One I worked with in Wisconsin was more reasonable but shipping was going to kill me. Even truck freight added 10 20 cents per bottle. It all adds up. You have to figure a wholesale cost and retail price. Labels are another high cost with minimums and for a start up let me recommend digital labels. PM me via the forum and I'll give you the name/number of a guy/company who when he does a large run for someone will add yours to the run for a cost savings.

Labels... get a good design and get them professionally designed. UPC codes will run you about $800 for the first year for one or hundreds then about $350 every year thereafter.

Nutritional Analysis of your ingredients will run anywhere from $75 per recipe to over 150. PM on this one and I'll give you the email name and address of one who will do it for $75 a recipe.

Let me tell you... there are NO co-packers who really will work with the little guy. You have to be tough if you want your sauce to taste like your sauce! It never will be exact unless you make it yourself and with your ingredients. For Mankind Sauces, LLC we have had quite a ride and MAYBE just MAYBE we will have our sauce ready in a few months and can make small batches in a certified/inspected kitchen in about 6 months.

It has been one heck of a wild ride. LOTS of start up costs! Lots of travel! Several YEARS in the making. Why am I even doing this?

Nothing like helping potential competitor! BUT, I think in the food and condiment business, there is always room for another! Welcome to this wild and whacky ride!

John

PS... I have done posts here on the BBQ Brethren forums with sample labels, desiring honest opinions and labels added as attachments and the guys here were awesome with some very frank and honest feedback.

PSS. GOOD LUCK!

PSSS Forgot to add a couple million dollar insurance policy and other business license costs, state tax license etc.

billm
10-29-2010, 07:51 AM
Having had poor luck with co-packers, I thought I might add my .02 cents to your information gathering stage.

I have tried working with several co-packers, one in Wisconsin and the other locals. You really need to work out your recipe into core easy to obtain 'components' and do not use other condiments to create your sauce as that is or can be very problematic. You really must weigh each ingredient for a recipe that makes one to five gallons of sauce and include at least a 40 minute boil/cook time. It may cook down more than you would like and can change the flavor profile. Everything in weight, not in cups or teaspoons etc.

If you do not have a recipe with generic ingredients, expect to spend over a thousand dollars to have them recreate your recipe from your kitchen recipe. I did that with one and I was so disappointed. One sample they sent me had to be a mistake as it was no where close. After several tries they were going to charge me another 300 or 500 (I forget how much now) for another round. I finally went to their lab and helped out and that result was close but the guy added way too much tomato paste and I wasn't going to accept what came out for production and wanted another test batch. Another 300. THEN his minimum for his first quote of 3000 bottles was at $45 a case of 12! Then it came down to 2.08 a bottle. I didn't use them. One I worked with in Wisconsin was more reasonable but shipping was going to kill me. Even truck freight added 10 20 cents per bottle. It all adds up. You have to figure a wholesale cost and retail price. Labels are another high cost with minimums and for a start up let me recommend digital labels. PM me via the forum and I'll give you the name/number of a guy/company who when he does a large run for someone will add yours to the run for a cost savings.

Labels... get a good design and get them professionally designed. UPC codes will run you about $800 for the first year for one or hundreds then about $350 every year thereafter.

Nutritional Analysis of your ingredients will run anywhere from $75 per recipe to over 150. PM on this one and I'll give you the email name and address of one who will do it for $75 a recipe.

Let me tell you... there are NO co-packers who really will work with the little guy. You have to be tough if you want your sauce to taste like your sauce! It never will be exact unless you make it yourself and with your ingredients. For Mankind Sauces, LLC we have had quite a ride and MAYBE just MAYBE we will have our sauce ready in a few months and can make small batches in a certified/inspected kitchen in about 6 months.

It has been one heck of a wild ride. LOTS of start up costs! Lots of travel! Several YEARS in the making. Why am I even doing this?

Nothing like helping potential competitor! BUT, I think in the food and condiment business, there is always room for another! Welcome to this wild and whacky ride!

John

PS... I have done posts here on the BBQ Brethren forums with sample labels, desiring honest opinions and labels added as attachments and the guys here were awesome with some very frank and honest feedback.

PSS. GOOD LUCK!

PSSS Forgot to add a couple million dollar insurance policy and other business license costs, state tax license etc.
sorry to hear about your bad luck with co-packers but to say none of them will work with the little guy is not an accurate statement..
My co-packer has been nothing but helpful. He is one of a few in the area that has a small minimum run (125 gallons or approx 72 cases of 12 16ox bottles)and did not charge me for sample runs while they were trying to reproduce my recipe into larger quantities. It took them a few times to get it right which is expected when goign form a gallon recipe to 125 gallons but they have been consistent since then. They use name brand ingredients if you specify otherwise they have generic as well

UPC codes cost around 80 bucks a piece per product. Not sure why you are paying 800 bucks a year . Its a one time purchase..not a yearly one unless im missing something here

JohnJ
10-29-2010, 09:28 AM
If you are getting your UPC codes from a third party and not directly from ther national clearing house, then it is my understanding that one can pay anywhere from 10 - 150 per UPC.

I registered with the main UPC data clearing house where one can have anywhere from one to 1000's of registered UPC codes.

http://www.gs1us.org/

It is also my understanding that your UPC code will actually come back as a product under the company from whom you purchased your UPC codes.

More info:

http://guides.wsj.com/small-business/starting-a-business/how-to-get-upc-codes-for-your-products-2/

It was unfair of me to state that no co-packers will work with the small guy. I just haven't found one but am anxious to learn who that is. I will PM you!

Thanks!

JOhn

billm
10-29-2010, 09:42 AM
If you are getting your UPC codes from a third party and not directly from ther national clearing house, then it is my understanding that one can pay anywhere from 10 - 150 per UPC.

I registered with the main UPC data clearing house where one can have anywhere from one to 1000's of registered UPC codes.

http://www.gs1us.org/

It is also my understanding that your UPC code will actually come back as a product under the company from whom you purchased your UPC codes.

More info:

http://guides.wsj.com/small-business/starting-a-business/how-to-get-upc-codes-for-your-products-2/

It was unfair of me to state that no co-packers will work with the small guy. I just haven't found one but am anxious to learn who that is. I will PM you!

Thanks!

JOhn
John the place I bought my UPC from (Simply Barcodes) provides a certificate of ownership to you for any UPC you buy from them..one barcode was 85 bucks or so and thats it ..again im not sure where you got those yearly costs from..its a one time purchase
A lot of companies buy them up in lots then end up selling the ones they dont use.
I have yet to run into an issue in 3 years using the upc codes I got where it was showing up as someone elses product. Bottom line you have to stick with reputable places..not some guy printing them up in his garage..believe me those guys are out there.

SmokinGuitarPlayer
11-12-2010, 08:16 AM
Remember that there are a zillion great sauces out there in the market and selling the product is usually much harder than you think. We receive bottles from people all the time, looking for us to carry them but even a small , focused operation such as ours has no spare shelf space to carry a product that has no advertising or customer base in place. I don't want to discourage you but keep in mind that most people that do this, never sell through the first batch. Have customers in place before having the sauce made... just my 2 cents.

PorkQPine
11-12-2010, 09:33 PM
I met up with a gal that sold spices at a farmers market and was willing to pack my rub for me in any amount I wanted. She already had a cert. kitchen and had done all the HD footwork for her spices so she was a great source. Check out local farmers markets and you too might find just the right situation.