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View Full Version : American Royal Judging.... Who's going? and a question for invitational judging veterans


linhardt
09-27-2010, 08:21 AM
I have judged several KCBS sanctioned events, but this is my first time at judging the invitational at the American Royal. I am excited to have the opportunity. How many others on here are judging the Invitational or Open?

I know at regular sanctioned events you are allowed to take home your leftovers from judging in a cooler. Does this still hold true for the Invitational? I have seen pics of the judges at older invitational events, but do not see any small coolers, etc. under the tables or seats. If anyone can enlighten me on if this is allowed or not I would be greatly appreciated.

Jeff_in_KC
09-27-2010, 08:36 AM
Must... resist... temptation...

Jeff_in_KC
09-27-2010, 08:38 AM
Ok I can't! How about focusing on judging and not so much what you're going to get to take home before you even arrive???

If it makes any difference and you are better able to sample what's presented to you, skip carrying away the half-eaten meat and come by my site at 933 after judging and I'll GIVE you some samples to take home.

rweller
09-27-2010, 08:59 AM
I will be there judging, this will be my 3rd year. I'm judging or table captain both the invite and the open.

Jeff is right though, focus on judging not what your taking home. I doubt you meant it to sound like that but it does. Especially to the guys that are cooking.

Go and have fun judging and go out and meet the teams after judging. Most are very friendly and will answer questions you might have. You will have a blast and theres always plenty of food and party festivities going on. Just a great time.

To answer your question. The last couple of years they did allow you to bring your cooler. I have never brought one and don't plan on it.

Jeff_in_KC
09-27-2010, 09:04 AM
"Adopt a Judge" program! Every team "adopt" a judge and provide a few samples of every category right after judging (the judge has to come by your site) and we eliminate the need for coolers in the judging area and nibbled-on meat that doesn't give a team a fair assessment of their entries.

Jorge
09-27-2010, 09:16 AM
"Adopt a Judge" program! Every team "adopt" a judge and provide a few samples of every category right after judging (the judge has to come by your site) and we eliminate the need for coolers in the judging area and nibbled-on meat that doesn't give a team a fair assessment of their entries.

Jeff for President!

moocow
09-27-2010, 09:23 AM
Jeff for President!
Its not like he didn't try!! I agree withe no coolers. I would be glad to give them some samples.

Jeff_in_KC
09-27-2010, 09:32 AM
Jeff for President!

Jorge, if you can get the "ticket" organized, I'll give serious consideration to giving it another try.

Captain Caveman
09-27-2010, 10:31 AM
Its not like he didn't try!! I agree withe no coolers. I would be glad to give them some samples.


I would also give samples if they would take a propper bite....

linhardt
09-27-2010, 10:59 AM
Ok I can't! How about focusing on judging and not so much what you're going to get to take home before you even arrive???

If it makes any difference and you are better able to sample what's presented to you, skip carrying away the half-eaten meat and come by my site at 933 after judging and I'll GIVE you some samples to take home.


Who ever said I was not going to focus on judging? :confused: I take my judging seriously!! You tell me that I am not a good judge?? Can't focus on judging prior to arriving anyway, right? Can only focus on it when it is presented to me for judging.

About 80 - 90% of certified judges that I have witnessed in all the KCBS sanctioned events I attended brought coolers. I did not the first few times, but thought why not, its not against the rules. Some may frown upon it and some do not, but unless the event does not allow it, then whats the harm?

Are you telling me that at those events, the judges that brought coolers did not take the judging seriously compared to the ones that did not? What does bringing a cooler have to do with people not focusing on judging?

I love BBQ in both the eating and cooking aspect of it, and is the reason that I got certified as a judge. I wanted to learn all I can so that I can try to produce the best BBQ that I can. Whats the harm in bringing home the little bit that is left over from what I have on my judging plate?

I know I can go by the pits and get lots of free samples. I dont care about that, Im not in it to just get free food. Just asking a simple question for some information prior to me entering the gate. Nothing to do with how I judge or my ability to judge.

But then again may be you are the BBQ god that creates the BBQ contest rules that all should follow and obey. :rolleyes:

Jorge
09-27-2010, 11:12 AM
Who ever said I was not going to focus on judging? :confused: I take my judging seriously!! You tell me that I am not a good judge?? Can't focus on judging prior to arriving anyway, right? Can only focus on it when it is presented to me for judging.

About 80 - 90% of certified judges that I have witnessed in all the KCBS sanctioned events I attended brought coolers. I did not the first few times, but thought why not, its not against the rules. Some may frown upon it and some do not, but unless the event does not allow it, then whats the harm?

Are you telling me that at those events, the judges that brought coolers did not take the judging seriously compared to the ones that did not? What does bringing a cooler have to do with people not focusing on judging?

I love BBQ in both the eating and cooking aspect of it, and is the reason that I got certified as a judge. I wanted to learn all I can so that I can try to produce the best BBQ that I can. Whats the harm in bringing home the little bit that is left over from what I have on my judging plate?

I know I can go by the pits and get lots of free samples. I dont care about that, Im not in it to just get free food. Just asking a simple question for some information prior to me entering the gate. Nothing to do with how I judge or my ability to judge.

But then again may be you are the BBQ god that creates the BBQ contest rules that all should follow and obey. :rolleyes:

Jeff's point is that there ARE judges that will nibble at their sample to load up to take food home. His concern is that SOME judges will NOT sample enough of a given entry to give the cook a fair score.

HIS suggestion, is that judges can come get all they want after they are done judging, to maintain the fairness and integrity of the judging.

I think he's right. It gives cooks the fair shot they deserve, and it gives judges the chance to take home some great BBQ. If your interest is to learn about BBQ I can't see a better option, than being able to spend a few minutes actually talking to the cook that prepared the food you can take home.

KC_Bobby
09-27-2010, 11:14 AM
I think what Jeff (and some others of us cooks that are also judges) are trying to say is that we see judges that only take little nibbles while judging and then stuff all of the rest in the cooler for later .... regardless if they score it a 2 or a 9. (Why even think about taking something home that's not at least an 8? (just my opinion)).

From a safety point of view, I wouldn't recommend taking chicken home. That's not safe and it can cross contaminate the other foods in your cooler.

I like Jeff's idea about adopting a team, I'd also be happy to give a judge a properly cooled gallon zip lock after the competition.

linhardt
09-27-2010, 11:22 AM
thanks Jorge, KC_bobby, and rweller. That is good info and I understand and respect your points and comments. Maybe my question seemed like all I wanted was the leftovers. I apologize for that as it was not my intention. But I could not just sit there and left anyone tell me to focus on judging when that is what I do at every event. My interpretation of what was said was a hit at my judging ability and that I'm only in it for the leftovers. And apologize if interpreted incorrectly. I know that this has been an issue in the past forum discussion and is somewhat of a touchy subject, but it was not my intent either to bring it up again to debate the cooler issue.

Jorge
09-27-2010, 11:34 AM
thanks Jorge, KC_bobby, and rweller. That is good info and I understand and respect your points and comments. Maybe my question seemed like all I wanted was the leftovers. I apologize for that as it was not my intention. But I could not just sit there and left anyone tell me to focus on judging when that is what I do at every event. My interpretation of what was said was a hit at my judging ability and that I'm only in it for the leftovers. And apologize if interpreted incorrectly. I know that this has been an issue in the past forum discussion and is somewhat of a touchy subject, but it was not my intent either to bring it up again to debate the cooler issue.

I don't think Jeff was questioning you as an individual. It's a topic that comes up frequently and one that he has some strong opinions, based on his experience, about. Stop by to see him at the Royal and I bet you'll walk away with a completely different perception.

linhardt
09-27-2010, 11:50 AM
I will probably do that Jorge if I get the chance. There is a lot of things to check out after I'm done judging. This is all still a learning process for me to gain good skills in being a respected bbq cook and judge. Thanks.

RobKC
09-27-2010, 12:12 PM
Feel free to stop by our spot, 644, after judging. We always like talking with the judges.

Rookie'48
09-27-2010, 11:00 PM
At one contest a couple of years ago the contest Rep, Jack Gibbs (RIP), gave a little talk at the judges meeting that went something like this: "Dammitt people, don't just take a little nibble off of that thigh or rib or whatever ..... Give it a good couple of bites, get a good taste & give the cooks a chance to show you what they can do ..... Don't just nibble so that you can take it home for later ..... These guys have put a lot of time & money into serving you this food ..... Give them a fair shot!"
The above is NOT a direct quote, it's just how I remember it. I sure wish that some one would have recorded that little talk & encorperated into the judges CD and oath. And yes, I sometimes have a cooler to take stuff home with me ..... but more than likely my cooler will just have beer & smoked cheese in it.
And judges, most all of the teams that I know will more than welcome you to visit on Friday evening, too.

Jorge
09-28-2010, 08:06 AM
At one contest a couple of years ago the contest Rep, Jack Gibbs (RIP), gave a little talk at the judges meeting that went something like this: "Dammitt people, don't just take a little nibble off of that thigh or rib or whatever ..... Give it a good couple of bites, get a good taste & give the cooks a chance to show you what they can do ..... Don't just nibble so that you can take it home for later ..... These guys have put a lot of time & money into serving you this food ..... Give them a fair shot!"
The above is NOT a direct quote, it's just how I remember it. I sure wish that some one would have recorded that little talk & encorperated into the judges CD and oath. And yes, I sometimes have a cooler to take stuff home with me ..... but more than likely my cooler will just have beer & smoked cheese in it.
And judges, most all of the teams that I know will more than welcome you to visit on Friday evening, too.

You da man!:becky:

Jeff_in_KC
09-28-2010, 10:13 PM
Dave Compton for BOD!

Red Valley BBQ
09-29-2010, 11:42 AM
Back to our regularly scheduled thread....

I'll be there judging, but only the Open. I'm helping a team that's only cooking the invite on Saturday. Not sure I could handle that much BBQ in a weekend. Lord knows I eat enough of it when competing.

daedalus
09-29-2010, 01:07 PM
Dave Compton for BOD!
I second that!:thumb:

As to the original question, I will be judging the invitational, open, and sides this weekend. Coolers have been permitted every time I have judged the royal before, and I have heard nothing to indicate that this year will be any different.

As to the issue of these supposed nibbling judges, I have to be honest, I have never seen a judge just nibble on their food so that they could take more home. I'm not saying that it has never happened, but if it was commonplace, I would have noticed. Personally, I took food home when I first started to judge, but found that it was really not worth the hassle, and that I rarely ate the leftovers anyway. If is worth taking home, I eat it right there at the table. This is especially true at large events like the Royal, where where I will be hanging out with teams for hours after judging. I would not feel comfortable letting the food sit in the car for that long, even in a cooler.

Having said that, I see nothing wrong with allowing people to take their leftovers home. I know several judges who make another full meal or two out of what they take home. Not to mention the fact that throwing it away is just plain wasteful. Just my two cents.

Hawg Father of Seoul
09-29-2010, 02:14 PM
Not to mention the fact that throwing it away is just plain wasteful. Just my two cents.

OP- do not worry, these guys are obviously grinding an axe.

The fact that they responded in this way to someone who is conscientious enough to ask their questions before hand ..... says a lot about them.

--- If you think you are loosing because people are not taking big enough bites .... well that is just funny. If they nibbled yours than they are nibbling everyone else's. (same as in highschool)

" I would of won, but I got a nibbler." LOL

Fred

KC_Bobby
09-29-2010, 02:29 PM
The individual that made the comment is also a KCBS judge and also currently one of the top teams in the nation so he doesn't really have an axe to grind. I think he's just asking for the judge to make sure they remember they are their to focus on judging. In fact, he's offering judges plenty more if they come by his booth after judging as a thank you and for the judges safety.

How would you feel if your guests came to your house with a take home cooler but only ate a few nibbles during the meal you worked so hard to serve?

QansasjayhawQ
09-29-2010, 03:06 PM
linhardt - Take your cooler. It's fine.

I also take my judging very seriously because I am also a cook. I almost never see other judges 'nibbling' instead of taking a serious bite. However, I do see some judges who are in a hurry. I try to model for the other judges at my table by totally experiencing each sample. I stop to look at it before I smell it, then after I bite it I chew it for a while to experience the wide range of flavors that the cook worked so hard to impart. Then, I take some time to ponder scores in my mind . . . before I finally record the score. Sometimes I'll take another bite to confirm something I thought I tasted or to remember the tenderness before I record the score.

We only get one chance to both sample and cook - and I am there to give the cooks the best, most accurate score that I possibly can.

I take poor samples home because I also was raised not to be wasteful - and my dogs can't seem to tell the difference between a 9 and a 2 . . . they love it all!

KC_Bobby
09-29-2010, 03:12 PM
I take poor samples home because I also was raised not to be wasteful - and my dogs can't seem to tell the difference between a 9 and a 2 . . . they love it all!

I learned in judging class that a 4 is something that you wouldn't feed your dog. :heh:

mobow
09-29-2010, 04:52 PM
I am judging the invitational and the open. Coming up Friday to see the chaos.
I agree that I have not seen many judges take small bites and the few times that I have the rep has usually given instructions to them to take a bigger bite.
I take left overs home. I don't like to be wasteful and my daughter is becoming a bbq smoking fool and she likes to size up the competition for when she makes the leap. Hope to meet some of you this weekend and good luck to you. keith ,a damn eater

Bentley
09-30-2010, 07:10 AM
I second that!:thumb:
Personally, I took food home when I first started to judge, but found that it was really not worth the hassle, and that I rarely ate the leftovers anyway.

Yeah, that lasted about 3 contest, last time I took BBQ home from judging was Vegas in 2004 and it got thrown out that night.

Jeff_in_KC
10-03-2010, 09:09 PM
Sorry you missed your samples, Linhardt. We had a ton of leftovers from two contests... You should have stopped by.

linhardt
10-12-2010, 01:22 PM
Unfortunately I was only able to judge the invitational and immediately head back home to my daughter and her activities so I was unable to visit any teams this year. Next year I am going to try to judge again and will make it a point to spend more time there. Again I appreciated the offer for some BBQ from all, if the offer still stands I would definitely like a taste. I did not take a cooler because I did not think I would have time to mess with it.