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quarters69
09-11-2010, 03:19 PM
How is it possible that at a kcbs event in KS that there were 9 180 point results, how is that possible??? Let me know what you think!!!:heh:

ThomEmery
09-11-2010, 05:00 PM
Good cookin? :)

smokaholic
09-11-2010, 05:12 PM
awesome judges??

ModelMaker
09-11-2010, 05:14 PM
All 4 major catagorys, or dessert and sides?
Ed

Westexbbq
09-11-2010, 05:41 PM
Well, folks are pretty good out there in our Nation's heartland and they do have a lot of good contests so I am curious as to the event in question, must be awesome.
I have seen it done with one or two teams but certainly per category, not all 4.
Any more details to share?

quarters69
09-11-2010, 07:30 PM
The event was in great bend, kansas. the 180 were as following, 4 180 in ribs, 3 180 in chicken, 2 180 in pork. I'm not saying it is not possible, but i would think a 180 is like a pefect game in baseball, it should not happen that often, and certainly not 9 in 1 event?!!:-D:-D

crd26a
09-11-2010, 07:46 PM
Look at who the competition was, heaviest hitting field of 26/27 you'll just about ever see. Scores could have been a little high, but amazing field overall

MilitantSquatter
09-11-2010, 07:46 PM
The event was in great bend, kansas. the 180 were as following, 4 180 in ribs, 3 180 in chicken, 2 180 in pork. I'm not saying it is not possible, but i would think a 180 is like a pefect game in baseball, it should not happen that often, and certainly not 9 in 1 event?!!:-D:-D

Impressive..

any idea as to how many of the 180's came from a specific judges table ?

BBQ_Mayor
09-11-2010, 07:51 PM
I'd say the judges were strongly encouraged to score high. I not this has never happened at any other contests. :rolleyes:.. Hope you got the sarcasm cause I laid it on pretty thick.

quarters69
09-11-2010, 07:59 PM
I have no idea what tables scored what and the cbj % was only 71%. The teams that were in it were good but just seems a bit unreal

BRBBQ
09-11-2010, 09:23 PM
awesome judges??
Ditto:becky:

Kosmo's Q
09-11-2010, 09:46 PM
All I can say is that this was the hardest comp I have ever attended to date with 5 of the 27 teams going to the Jack and I believe 3 of the other competitors winning either the Royal or the Jack in previous years (Some have won both). I can say this; I'm pretty sure that of the 180's handed out they were given for great food and not average food. I was told by at least 5 judges after the comp that this was some of the best all-around food they have ever eaten at a comp.

Coz
09-12-2010, 12:33 AM
I would bet with the field they had there that everyone stepped it up a notch. Awesome job folks!

bignburlyman
09-12-2010, 08:01 AM
The event was in great bend, kansas. the 180 were as following, 4 180 in ribs, 3 180 in chicken, 2 180 in pork. I'm not saying it is not possible, but i would think a 180 is like a pefect game in baseball, it should not happen that often, and certainly not 9 in 1 event?!!:-D:-D

I worked the contest at the turn in table for the Saturday contest so I was able to sample from the volunteer table. The turn-ins were excellent then. I judged for the Sunday contest. At my table were 3 master judges (I know it doesn't really mean they are better, just experienced). After judging one of the categories we discussed our scores and we all agreed on one sample being a 180. The cooking was tremendous all around. I myself was shocked at how many 180's were awarded, but everyone I overheard said it was the best top to bottom they had ever judged. I don't think scores were given away, they were earned. Look at the brisket placings on Sunday, two of the top Team of the Year teams were in the bottom 3.

I also talked to the KCBS rep, he felt the scoring was not out of line with the quality of the teams involved.

RobKC
09-12-2010, 10:47 AM
In the judges' eyes, the average bbq for those 2 contests was good enough to win just about anywhere else. We rocked a 687.xxxx on Sunday, good enough for 11th place. It was by far our highest score ever, but also the best bbq we've ever turned in.

quarters69
09-12-2010, 11:23 AM
Thanks for your input guys, now that i know some of you were there and tasted it, it makes it a little more understanding, i wish i could of been there if it was that good!! :bow: Just still hard to believe!!

Scottie
09-12-2010, 11:38 AM
I can understand the argument about the number of good teams at a contest, I've cooked in a few of those. But why wouldn't the Sam's Club Invitational have that many 180's? Wasn't that the best of the best?

quarters69
09-12-2010, 11:40 AM
i agree with that,if the best were at sams that makes sense:clap2:

Dale P
09-12-2010, 12:00 PM
Some Judges are like home inspectors. They think that it is their job to find something wrong.

hee hee hee........

Dr_KY
09-12-2010, 12:11 PM
Fantastic show from all the teams,this is what it's all about.

Kosmo's Q
09-12-2010, 12:48 PM
But why wouldn't the Sam's Club Invitational have that many 180's? Wasn't that the best of the best?

:boink:Someone is poking the bear.:-D

Plowboy
09-12-2010, 02:30 PM
I can understand the argument about the number of good teams at a contest, I've cooked in a few of those. But why wouldn't the Sam's Club Invitational have that many 180's? Wasn't that the best of the best?

Scottie, that Sam's club contest was brutal!!! It was major hot and humid. The power at the contest sucked at best so air conditioners were on until Friday night. A lot of people were fried. I can say that my food in Great Bend was a hell of a lot better than Sam's Club... and I had three contests in three days in Great Bend.

The other thing that several of us noted in Great Bend was how serious everyone was taking that contest. You didn't see a lot of visiting. People would visit for a while, and then get back to work. Folks knew that they had to have an A+ game to take home any awards, points, and cash... especially when Pellet Envy totally smoked everyone in Chest to Chest and the first KCBS contest.

Scottie
09-12-2010, 02:46 PM
Well I guess I was sorta taking a poke... but in reality. The team that beat all the heat and humidity was a team that cooked under 2 Ez-Ups. Lets face it. We have all cooked in big time contests with a ton of talent, that everyone is taking seriously to win. Ultimately it comes down to the judging. I'd say they were very very generous that day. We don't ever see 180 in our region or a lot of other regions... I guess we all need to learn how to cook? ;)

Skip
09-12-2010, 03:23 PM
You can't discount the talent. As someone above said 5 Jack pulls and consistent talent with former Royal, etc winners. You have 5 amped up teams out to impress right off the bat. You have former champions psyched at the possibility of facing and beating some of the best out there today. The food was obviously at such a level to impress the experienced judge, as we hear from the chatter after the contest. So it would stand to reason that Joe Q Public would consider this the greatest BBQ they ever ate.

An experienced judge who gives a 9 9 9 on the 1st piece and the second piece is better? Well its another 9 9 9. If each submission is on par or better then his first everyone gets a 9 9 9. I think you have a situation where the talent shocked the judges and blew up their baseline.

Kosmo's Q
09-12-2010, 03:33 PM
Like Todd said there was very little visiting. At 9:30 the night before the final cook the isles we DEAD everyone was tucked away. I have to say that I have never seen that before.

Plowboy
09-12-2010, 06:07 PM
Well I guess I was sorta taking a poke... but in reality. The team that beat all the heat and humidity was a team that cooked under 2 Ez-Ups. Lets face it. We have all cooked in big time contests with a ton of talent, that everyone is taking seriously to win. Ultimately it comes down to the judging. I'd say they were very very generous that day. We don't ever see 180 in our region or a lot of other regions... I guess we all need to learn how to cook? ;)

It was a combination of the two: a lot of focus by the teams and generous judges.

Sledneck
09-12-2010, 06:20 PM
I dont think a 180 has or ever will happen in my area with the reg 4 cats. Local judges suck here.

quarters69
09-12-2010, 06:21 PM
You said it was experienced judging, but the cbj was only 71% so it wasn't all experienced judging. I'm not saying it is a bad that all the 180 were put out there, but it is just weird. I'm sure judging that talent level is extrememly diffucult, wish i could of been there.:thumb:

quarters69
09-12-2010, 07:03 PM
Those teams are in other events, so shouldn't they have got 180 in other events if that is the case

Dan - 3eyzbbq
09-12-2010, 09:31 PM
I dont think a 180 has or ever will happen in my area with the reg 4 cats. Local judges suck here.

Agree, well maybe not the judge coment though. Has there been a 180 in the Mid-Atlantic/NE in the 4 KCBS categories in the last 3-4 years? Not that I remember.

Plowboy
09-12-2010, 10:11 PM
Those teams are in other events, so shouldn't they have got 180 in other events if that is the case


Some have.

Sledneck
09-13-2010, 02:32 AM
Agree, well maybe not the judge coment though. Has there been a 180 in the Mid-Atlantic/NE in the 4 KCBS categories in the last 3-4 years? Not that I remember. As far as judges go I meant local as in here on the Island.

drbbq
09-13-2010, 08:16 AM
I think the scores have been creeping up over the past couple years and we're headed right back where we are. Another one of those things at KCBS that never really gets fixed.

The problem with the 1980s for me is that it completely castrates the tie breaking system. At 180, the first tie breaker is the 6th judge. who we had thrown out because he might be a loose canon, and then a coin flip. So this big money high profile 5 Jack cook-off was decided by the judges we'd thrown out and coin flips.

I tried to get decimals instituted 5-6 years ago when I was on the board and John Ross told us that it couldn't be done in DOS. Of course most of the world was already using Windows but John didn't know how to write in Windows so he bull****ted the board members that were computer illiterate into siding with him and it went away.
Then came the start at 6 nonsense and the 6 is average nonsense and now it's evolved back to a 7-8-9 system with mostly 8s and 9s.

The cooks all like getting 9s and are willing to ignore the problem when scores are high.

goodsmokebbq
09-13-2010, 11:24 AM
Then came the start at 6 nonsense and the 6 is average nonsense and now it's evolved back to a 7-8-9 system with mostly 8s and 9s.

The cooks all like getting 9s and are willing to ignore the problem when scores are high.

We don't see these scores on the east coast. There is a definite difference in the judging "approach" between the east coast and the middle of the country. Have these two judging pools been taught differently?

Scottie
09-13-2010, 11:28 AM
My opinion is it has a lot to do with the region. Whether that has to do with the training instructor, reps or not? I haven't tracked the 180's, but am sure it would be intersting to see if it can be tracked by region and/or reps.... Although, I couldn't really care less. I'd like to have one, but that is not a ultimate goal, so I don't worry about it.

We don't see these scores on the east coast. There is a definite difference in the judging "approach" between the east coast and the middle of the country. Have these two judging pools been taught differently?

JD McGee
09-13-2010, 11:42 AM
Wow! That's amazing...180's (200's now for PNWBA) are few and far between up here in the left hand corner...there were two in one comp last year...and so far none this year (I think)...congrats to all that received them...must have been some killer Q that day...:cool:

ique
09-13-2010, 11:46 AM
Agree, well maybe not the judge coment though. Has there been a 180 in the Mid-Atlantic/NE in the 4 KCBS categories in the last 3-4 years? Not that I remember.

I do not recall a single 180 in the Northeast in the KCBS 4 since the "scoring change"

Ties do suck. However, isn't it possible for an entry to be perfect? If a judge can't think of a single criticism and basically concludes "couldnt be better" ... shouldn't the team get a perfect score? If so, in a strong field it is certainly possible that 3 or 4 entries meet that couldn't be better criteria.

Wasn't there a 180 in the contest the day before Great Bend? Maybe the judges caught wind of that (same judges?) and thought that maybe its OK to give a perfect score to perfect food.

rescue_ranger
09-13-2010, 04:41 PM
How is it possible that at a kcbs event in KS that there were 9 180 point results, how is that possible??? Let me know what you think!!!:heh:

a $50.00 dollar bills tuck unders each portion:becky:

swamprb
09-13-2010, 07:31 PM
Wow! That's amazing...180's (200's now for PNWBA) are few and far between up here in the left hand corner...there were two in one comp last year...and so far none this year (I think)...congrats to all that received them...must have been some killer Q that day...:cool:


Other Side of the Tracks got a 200 for Chicken at "Smokin' at the Root" in Stevensville, MT

Rookie'48
09-13-2010, 09:08 PM
An experienced judge who gives a 9 9 9 on the 1st piece and the second piece is better? Well its another 9 9 9. If each submission is on par or better then his first everyone gets a 9 9 9. I think you have a situation where the talent shocked the judges and blew up their baseline.

Skip, under the KCBS scoring rules comparitive judging is forbiden, each entry should be judged on its own merits. I know that not all judges follow (or understand) this little point, but we all should know the rules :thumb:.

quarters69
09-13-2010, 09:46 PM
:idea: How many 180's do you think will be at the ROYAL, that should be interesting don't you think?? That should be the place it all happens.

Skip
09-13-2010, 09:53 PM
Skip, under the KCBS scoring rules comparitive judging is forbiden, each entry should be judged on its own merits. I know that not all judges follow (or understand) this little point, but we all should know the rules :thumb:.

That wasn't what I was saying. What I was trying to say was that a judge who already gave a perfect score couldn't go up from there. So another 9 9 9 would be given.

DawgPhan
09-14-2010, 11:32 AM
:idea: How many 180's do you think will be at the ROYAL, that should be interesting don't you think?? That should be the place it all happens.


and if there are no 180's this weekend or there are a dozen, what conclusion will you draw?

seems like you dont really understand the process and are trying to draw some conclusion from looking at the scores and there simply isnt one to draw.

KC_Bobby
09-14-2010, 12:20 PM
I can only recall one 180 in the 8 KCBS meat categories at last year's Royal - Invitational Pork - Caveman Cuisine

Dessert on the other hand - I think it had 6

quarters69
09-14-2010, 07:56 PM
Im not trying to draw any conclusions, i just wanted to ask everybodys opinion on the fact that 9 180's were giving out at one contest. I am not mad that it happened, i just thought that it was unusual. Wouldn't you figure the royal has all the best teams from around the country, so wouldn't the 180's be put out there. The event in ks had great teams in it, and they all will be at the royal also. Im not trying to piss anybody off, im just trying to get opinions on the matter. So if you have not responded yet, let me know what you think. And if you got a 180 on a meat, let me know what you thought of it before you turned it in, did you think you had the 180 or just really good??

Kosmo's Q
09-14-2010, 10:28 PM
I got a 180. Ate four bones myself, mighty fine rib I must say. Oh and I got 4th behind some of the best dang cooks out there (week in and week out). What the question should be is what in the world did first place do. :-D

Captain Caveman
09-14-2010, 11:14 PM
I can only recall one 180 in the 8 KCBS meat categories at last year's Royal - Invitational Pork - Caveman Cuisine

Dessert on the other hand - I think it had 6

Hey! Thanks for remembering!:icon_blush:

crd26a
09-15-2010, 05:03 PM
Hey! Thanks for remembering!:icon_blush:

I'm going to figure out how to bribe you to help me with my pork scores for next year lol :becky:

quarters69
09-15-2010, 05:13 PM
Hey kosmo, congrats on the 180, i have a question for you. So how do they place you 4th if there is 4 180's in the contest, sucks to get 4th and have a perfect score:-d

Kosmo's Q
09-15-2010, 07:29 PM
No chit. I lost money as well. But like I said earlier, there was some dang good cooks there that were 100% focused on the comp. I'll take a 4th place with them cats anyday. O and I use Kraft Hickory Style bbq sauce. :wink:

quarters69
09-15-2010, 08:34 PM
kosmo, how do they decide the places with 4 perfect scores

Kosmo's Q
09-15-2010, 09:41 PM
1st place was all 6 judges gave nine's 2rd, 3rd, and 4th they went to the sixth judge and we all tied. So I think I am not for sure but they flip a coin. Don't quote me on that though. Maybe some else can chime in on how they break tie breakers.