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BrooklynQ
08-12-2004, 06:43 PM
FYI Folks. This post is resurrected, from 2004




At the PoohBah's request, I'm posting here on what it was like being a judge at the CT contest. This is only my opinon and observations. If you disagree, well, you disagree. I'm sure some of more experienced brethren have different thoughts and experiences about what goes on in the tent.

This was orignally posted on my blog where I think out loud about how I want to compete, what I'm learning, and what I'm trying in the world of BBQ.

Secrets from the inside the Judge's Tent.

Last weekend, I got a chance to loose my judging cherry (apologies to parrothead for stealing his line) and officiate at the 2nd Annual Connecticut Barbeque Contest.

This was my first KCBS sanctioned contest and I was really looking forward to it. To be completely honest, I was a bit nervous too. The winners of this contest would qualify for the Jack Daniel's Invitational - a really big deal. I didn't want to screw up.

I got to the contest early and walked around the competitors sites. This contest had some heavy hitters, including The Smoke Ring, I Smell Smoke, Zak's BBQ and a lot of other winners. Of course, my friends The BBQ-Brethren were there. All in all there were 22 teams competing.

I got there around 9:30, judging of food would be at noon, so all of the teams were beginning to ramp up for the contests. I got to check out some cookers I've never seen before. There were a few Klose Pits, some homemade, Weber Smokey Mountains, New Braunfels and Langs. I had never seen a Lang smoker before. They seemed to be the most popular units there. People were proudly showing off there equipment. (easy now!) Anyone I asked showed me how to their unit worked.

I got to ask lots of questions, what type of wood, how long did you cook it, what spices, do you mop, baste, inject? Anything and everything I could think of. Everyone I spoke with answered all of my questions and didn't make me feel like an idiot. And I didn't once hear, "Sorry, that's a secret."

Again, and I can't emphasize this enough, EVERYONE I spoke with was friendly, humble, and open. Not one team said that they had the best food. Almost everyone pointed to another team and said, you should talk to them, they have more experience, or they have great brisket. No one was singing their own praises. BBQ folks are a pretty humble bunch.

So at 10:45 I head over to the judging tent for our pre-judging meeting. I got to meet a lot of new people. I was really surprised to meet a judge from Manhattan. (Forgive me folks, I don't remember any of your names.) I even more surprised to meet a woman judge who lives about 6 blocks from me in Brooklyn. What a small world.

We were called to order and a CD was played explaining the rules of judging the contest. Most, if not all of the judges at this event were Certified BBQ judges, CBJs. We were sworn in and pledged to be honest and then had a break before the food would begin to flow. At this contest, we judged Chicken, Ribs, Pulled Shoulder/Butt, and Beef Brisket. Each judge, judges 6 different samples in each category. These are the standard KCBS foods.

At noon, you could see the competitors begin to drop off their food. Man, those folks looked tired. The judges are kept away from the drop off tables, close enough to see, but not close enough to make contact with the cookers. KCBS sanctioned contests are blind judging. Once the food is submitted, the team numbers are changed so that the judges never know whose food we are judging.

The first category was chicken. The table captain opened each box of food and showed it to us to judge appearance. Once Jamie, our table captain said, "Ladies and Gentlemen, this is box number...." we all fell silent and started judging. Judges are not allowed to speak to each other while the food is being judged. We are not allowed to motion to each other or make faces either. Game face on! Just like a poker game.

I was impressed on how professional everyone was and how seriously we all took out duties.

Chicken being the first category, and one of my favorite foods, I probably ate too much of each sample. The majority of samples were chicken thighs, one was skinless and one sample was a mix of skinless chicken breast and chicken legs and thighs. Each contestant must submit at least 6 identifiable pieces of food, but there's nothing stopping a cook form submitting more, in fact, it's encouraged. (You need to feed the table captains!)

This part didn't make the blog, but is added for the brethren... The skinless thighs did well at my table, because the skin on all of the other pieces was like rubber. Remember to crisp your chicken skin before you send it in to be judged. The skinless chicken breast was submitted in a box with two legs and thighs still connected to each other. The breast meat was fanned out below in a sort of happy face with horns presentation. :twisted: All of us at my table looked at the legs and thighs as garnish and no one sampled them. One of the judges didn't eat the skin on any of the chicken, but would wipe the sauce and rub from the skin onto the meat before eating it. Maybe it's a good idea to rub under the skin.

Back to the original blog...
There was complete silence while we judged. I think we spent about 15 minutes eating and rating our each food category before we were all ready to discuss our decisions. Once all the score cards were submitted we'd critique each category asking, which one was best and which was worse, but no one compared scores.

Next came ribs. One submission was challenged on its presentation because the ribs were so perfectly aligned and glazed that it looked like one solid piece of meat. It was beautiful. The ribs were glazed and sparkled. The official KCBS rep was called and he said that he could see the cut marks and we were allowed to judge it. Every cook is given "the benefit of the doubt" when it comes to judging.

Two of the ribs stuck together when they were removed from the box, but luckily the cook had placed extra ribs below the slab. However, these ribs underneath were both burnt and dry. Were they only in the box to prop up the slab? To make it look good? Unfortunately, one of the judges had to eat the bad ribs and the score reflected this. I learned here, don't put anything in the box that's not the best.

Again, for the benefit of the brethren.. Most of the judges were looking for the smoke rings on the ribs. The ribs that were presented on their sides or on angles where the cut meat and ring was visible did better on in the appearence score then those that were presented slab fashion.

Back again.. One other submission, in brisket, when we were taking our samples, what should have been two pieces came out of the box as one. Luckily, the cook had included more then six slices in his/her box, otherwise it would have been disqualified. If you can, always put extra food in the box!

The pork was probably the hardest for me to judge. It's not a food that is native to NYC. Each sample here was unique. Some were pulled, others chopped and some sliced. Some where sauced with a red BBQ sauce, some dry and one with a vinegar/pepper sauce. Very interesting. The experienced judges seemed to prefer pulled pork to the other samples, but if a box contained pulled, sliced, or chopped, we all tried it all ways. I guess the cooks were trying to please the judges by giving them what they liked best, but I think it worked against them. If the pulled pork was good, the slices weren't. And vice versa. As a judge you need to judge it all, so I know people lost points here. Don't try to give the judges everything, find a way that works best for you and ONLY do that.

To me, and to most of the judges at my table, the best tasting pork had the vinegar/pepper sauce. Unfortunately that piece was dry as toast. Talking with cooks afterwards, I was told that they all felt that it was risky to use that sauce in a contest in the Northeast. I guess regional tastes do matter.

By the time the brisket came around I was feeling pretty full. To be honest with you, the brisket at my table of six judges was awful. Every one was bad. I hate to say that because I know how hard everyone worked on their food, but it was my job to judge. Every piece I had was over cooked and dried out. Some had no flavor at all. In a way I was glad that this category had bad food, because by the end of it, I really didn't want to eat anymore. But I did my best to be fair and gave, what I think are honest scores.

After each category is judged, all left over food is given to the table captains and volunteers to eat. You want to see who's winning, check out which box of food gets eaten by them. They get to try everything, and they get to pick the best. Of course, there's no way to know who's food it is since the boxes are identical.

Once the judging was complete, I got to go back out amongst the competitors and ask them how they felt they did. Everyone was very hopeful and felt they had submitted their best. It may not have been the best they ever cooked, but it was the best they cooked this contest.

Some of my friends (The PoohBah amongst others) asked me to try their food now, to see how it compared to what I ate inside the tent. I was really full, but tried to be nice and took some bites. I got caught by one team (I don't have to tell you who that team was) chucking the food out after one bite. It wasn't a reflection of their food, which was great, but the simple fact that I was STUFFED. I hope they weren't offended. They came in in the top 5 so they know their food was good.

I stayed around for the awards ceremony. It was great watching as every team cheered for all the winners. Some of those trophies were pretty heavy. I can't wait till I get my chance to claim one.

So, now I've been a judge and a spectator. I have to say that being a spectator is more fun, and more educational. As a spectator, I got to roam around and bull**** with all of the cooks. I got to try a lot of the food and I could pick who the winners should be. I could put a face with each piece of meat.

As a judge, I got to eat a lot of good and not so good food, but there was no way for me to know who the winners would be. When the winners were announced I was surprised as they were.

I know this is wordy, and I hope you guys found it interesting.

Bigmista
08-12-2004, 06:54 PM
Awesome article Rob! That definitely helps alot!

Solidkick
08-12-2004, 06:57 PM
Very Nice! Good to see the picture from the other side. Thank you for posting!

kcquer
08-12-2004, 07:53 PM
Robert, Thanks Brother! Good info, I found the presentation info particularly helpful.

The_Kapn
08-12-2004, 08:12 PM
Sorry for the delay in responding- But I was busy absorbing each and every word!!!!
A quality peice of work offering great insight.
I love your Blog- now added to my favorites.
Thanks for your input.
Now...to put it to work!
TIM

BrooklynQ
08-12-2004, 08:23 PM
One big thing I forgot to add. DON'T use a SPICY/HOT sauce on your submissions. This may be a regional thing, the judges at my table were from NY, VT, and CT, but there was a fairly lengthy discussion about this. The consensus was that a spicy entry affects the judge’s taste buds so that they can not fairly judge other entries. The thoughts were that since the turn in times are every half hour, the pallet doesn't have enough time to be cleansed before eating another entry. Personally, I like spicy. But the experienced judges were saying that a spicy entry would be judged harshly because of this. Again, it may be regional, and it may be wrong, but that's what was said

Trout_man22
08-12-2004, 08:45 PM
Robert, Thank You I joined the KCBS and have toyed with the idea of judging I think you have pushed me ovet the edge. The next time I see a class I take it and get oth there and meet my brothers.

Trout

chad
08-12-2004, 08:48 PM
Great insight!! Thanks.

Trout_man22
08-12-2004, 08:51 PM
David, you alive?

Trout_man22
08-12-2004, 08:54 PM
What I ment to say is David I glad your alive the weather is on it's way up here.

chad
08-12-2004, 09:17 PM
Bro, it hasn't even started!! :D

Looks like the intercoastal just down from my house (I live about a 5-6 minute drive from the water) is going to get a dredging from Ma Nature!! There's a pass called Hurricane Pass -- it'll either be deeper or sealed up by Saturday morning!!

Then we'll send the remnants up your way!

parrothead
08-12-2004, 09:30 PM
Great read, brooklynq. Something else I would like to point out is your blog. I stumbled on it a few weeks back. There is a link in there to the history of food within our civilization. I have spent the last couple of weeks pouring over that thing. Really interesting info in there. If you would care to, I would like to ask you to start a weekly post entitled "food history post of the week". Pick out one of your favorites from the link and post it. If it works and starts good discussion, great. If not, then oh well, but it is worth a try.

BrooklynQ
08-12-2004, 10:37 PM
Me? Actually Greg, I think I got that link off here somewhere. But sure I'll give it a shot.

Thanks everyone for the kind words about the post. I'm learning about BBQ, that's why i'm here. I hope the information is helpful to you. I would like to hear from some of the experienced judges. Are my observations typical?

jminion
08-12-2004, 10:39 PM
As a KCBS Reb and after the 22nd a CBJ trainer I only have some comments.

1. The judge that would not eat chicken skin, during his training he was old what KCBS expect him to do. He was instructed to bite off a piece with the meat and chew to judge texture and taste at this point he can remove to his napkin, he does not have to swallow it. By coming to judge he is stating that he is willing to judge what the cook wanted to present.
I would have talk to the judge about what we expect, from there decide if the judge would continue to judge.

2. Not only are the judges told smokering is not to be considered but so are the cooks. When the judges do consider smokering it puts cooks in a tough situation.

As a cook I want to be judged within the rules, just a fair shot. I also understand judges will give smokering points, so I best have it there but it makes the competing harder.

Robert, it was your first time judging and what you found does not surprise me, but it is about giving the cooks the best shot within the rules. As you judge more I hope you will find it different.

BrooklynQ
08-12-2004, 10:49 PM
Not only are the judges told smokering is not to be considered but so are the cooks. When the judges do consider smokering it puts cooks in a tough situation.

As a cook I want to be judged within the rules, just a fair shot. I also understand judges will give smokering points, so I best have it there but it makes the competing harder.

Jim, that's what I thought too. That the smoke ring didn't matter. But listening to other judges, including a couple at our table, the smoke ring was highly prized.

jminion
08-12-2004, 11:10 PM
Robert
We know they are out there, but they swore to judge within the rules.

Neil
08-13-2004, 03:27 AM
Great post and great blog. It will definately become regular reading.

stlmike
08-13-2004, 07:25 AM
Robert,
Good to know what you observed.

Jim,
Good to hear your insights and what the KCBS is looking for.

Mike

willkat98
08-13-2004, 08:28 AM
Robert,
I like your responses and Jims rules knowledge, so I need to ask.

Greg and I are also certified, but never judged.

You mentioned the guy made a "design" with Chicken like a smile and horns.

We learned this would get a Disqualification on presentation for trying to "influence" appearence through a design.

What is the actual rule, and did anyone judge them that way at your table that you know of?

Bigdog
08-13-2004, 09:24 AM
I have to comment on the judge(s) that gave low points to hot and spicey entries. To me, this is an unfair bias. I would understand it if he meant unnecessary hot, meaning so hot that it overpowers the flavors. Hope that this is just a regional thing.

jmcgrath
08-13-2004, 10:58 AM
I was contest organizer for the Connecticut contest and was expecting to be off duty once the Contest Reps showed up, a day of hanging out with the teams and drinking their beer. Not to be :(

I had two alternate judges signed up and thought I was covered. For whatever reason, there were four no shows and I got sucked into judging.

I was seated at Rob's (BrooklynQ) table and agree with most of his observations. First of all, the chicken skin sucked. If you can't do it right, go skinless! The breast entry was dried out and tasteless.

I was the judge who questioned the slab of ribs entry. The sauce was painted on so heavily that is was impossible to discern individual pieces. The Contest Rep said it was OK, and I ended up scoring it a 9 in appearance. If I had been the Rep, I would have DQd it. Unfortunately, I was also the judge who got the dried out riblet from the bottom. That killed them on my score card. I don't remember a discussion about smoke rings.

Most of the pork entries were mediocre. Bland.

There was only one passible brisket entry. Most were dried out.

Jim

BrooklynQ
08-13-2004, 01:08 PM
You mentioned the guy made a "design" with Chicken like a smile and horns.

We learned this would get a Disqualification on presentation for trying to "influence" appearence through a design.

What is the actual rule, and did anyone judge them that way at your table that you know of?


Here's the rules:
20. Garnish is limited to chopped, sliced, shredded or whole leaves of fresh green lettuce (no kale, endive, or red tipped lettuce) and/or common curly parsley, flat leaf parsley or cilantro. Any entry not complying with this rule will be given a one (1) on APPEARANCE.

21. Marking of any kind of the meat or container will not be tolerated. This will include but is not limited to painting, sculpting, or decorating. No aluminum foil or stuffing is allowed in the container. No toothpicks, skewers, foreign material or stuffing is permitted. Any entry not complying with this rule will be given a one (1) in APPEARANCE, a one (1) in TASTE, and a one (1) in TENDERNESS/TEXTURE.

What I was taught in my judging class was that a design could be used as a way to identify a particular team and so it should be DQ'd.

The presentation didn't really register as a identifiable design at the contest. At least not to me. Only when I looked back on it and tried to find words to describe it, did the presentation become the horny smilely face. Someone more astute than myself may have picked it up there.

Jim? What's your take on it. You saw it too.

No one judge can DQ an entry. It needs approval by the contest rep.

One other area that was questioned by a cook when he saw the empty containers, was the use of iceburg lettuce as oppposed to green leaf lettuce. He stated that green leaf lettuce is a particular breed of lettuce and that iceburg is a breed unto itself. He felt that iceburg should have DQ'd that submission. The rep said that iceburg was indeed a green leaf lettuce. I wonder if this has come up before?

jminion
08-13-2004, 01:51 PM
Marking can be a tough call, if you make an X, that's marking but a circle is OK from what I'm seeing. If the chicken was arraigned to make a face that could have been called marking very easily, not something I would be willing to do as a cook. As a rep I may have to DQ after seeing it. Tough call sometimes.

Chicken skin can be done correctly, I turn breasts quite often. They have done very well for me, a number of first and top 5 finishes, even a 6th at the Royal Open against 365 turn-ins a few years ago. Jim McGrath is right if you can not get the skin tender or chrisp you are better off turning in skinless. Tip on chicken breasts don't allow the internal to get over 160º internal, I take it off the cooker at 157º. It will have tender skin and be very moist.

jmcgrath
08-13-2004, 02:26 PM
The presentation didn't really register as a identifiable design at the contest. At least not to me. Only when I looked back on it and tried to find words to describe it, did the presentation become the horny smilely face. Someone more astute than myself may have picked it up there.

Jim? What's your take on it. You saw it too.


I didn't notice anything about it that I would consider marking. I thought it was a rather dumb presentation, but don't recall how I scored it. I did score low on taste and tenderness. The breast meat was tasteless and dry.

Jim

BrooklynQ
08-13-2004, 03:45 PM
I have to comment on the judge(s) that gave low points to hot and spicey entries. To me, this is an unfair bias. I would understand it if he meant unnecessary hot, meaning so hot that it overpowers the flavors. Hope that this is just a regional thing.

Bigdog, this was a theoretical discussion. None of the food I had was particularly spicy. It was just something I thought people should be aware of. When I was trained, we were told to judge the meat, not the sauce.

BrooklynQ
08-13-2004, 03:47 PM
I don't remember a discussion about smoke rings.
Jim

It was after the rib judging. I think you were off having a smoke.

Florida Bill
09-12-2006, 10:50 AM
Robert,
I'm new to the Brethren and thus just getting around to some of the previous posts. Thanks for this one. I have never participated in a competetion but am certainly interested. As a matter of fact, I'll be attending one in Covington, Ga. on Oct. 13-14. I'm really looking forward to watching the folks work and now that I've been smoking a while, asking a lot of questions. Thanks again, I'm off to your blog.

BrooklynQ
09-12-2006, 10:57 AM
Wow. Talk about bringing up the past. I hope you enjoy the blog. Thanks.

Wine & Swine
09-12-2006, 11:14 AM
Rob, thanks again for all the insight. Sound like it was a good learning experience.

lunchlady
09-12-2006, 04:41 PM
That was a fun event right there.... can I brag just a little? We took home the 1st place trophies for ribs AND brisket that day, 2004 right?, and ended up with Reserve to Purple Turtle's Grand (1.12 point difference). Gregg (PTCC) was by himself except for one mentoree and he won the whole damn thing on a coupla WSM's!! That was also the event where I first met Poohbah, and that was lunchmeat's first ever Reserve! The GC is still elusive to us, but we have hope... Thanks for the trip down memory lane ... I think I'll go dust off those trophies now that I am remembering the work that went into winning them.
Thanks -
lunchlady

TnDrew
09-21-2011, 11:35 AM
This might be an old thread, but very informative. appreciate it and the Forum.

tdwalker
09-21-2011, 01:00 PM
My first read through the original post I did not realize that is was from '04.

As a judge, I took specific note of several items that bothered me greatly ...

1. The judge who would not taste the skin
2. The judges looking for a smoke ring
3. The "unique" presentation of the "devil with horns"
4. Marking down "spicy" food becuase the taste buds don't recover.

I saw that these issues were discussed later in the post, so I guess I'm beating a 7 year old dead horse. :deadhorse: This all was really very disappointing to me, and now I see why there is some animosity towards the judges from the cooks.

deguerre
09-21-2011, 02:01 PM
Man, this IS an old thread. I'm just wondering why the OP got banned.

Lake Dogs
09-21-2011, 02:20 PM
It's a really good write-up, and I think could really benefit rookie teams/cooks to read/see/hear about it.

SlicksBBQ
09-21-2011, 02:42 PM
Making the move into the judging tent for me was a huge eye opener. As a cook, I got to see and hear what the judges are looking for.

big brother smoke
09-21-2011, 03:05 PM
Man, this IS an old thread. I'm just wondering why the OP got banned.


There are boundaries and rules to follow and they were broken; repeatively! :mod:

Matt_A
09-21-2011, 06:00 PM
Great write-up! To piggy back on some previous comments, If skin is presented you should at least taste it. Also, be careful you don't get in trouble for breaking the "Fraternization" rule. Judges are not supposed to fraternize with any of the teams on turn-in day. Wandering around and asking questions about techniques, recipes, equipment, etc. is a clear violation of the rule. You could get banned from judging that contest if somebody complained to the KCBS Rep.

If you want to do that, get there the day before and visit with the teams, but be mindful that some might perceive favoritism if you hung out,drank, and maybe even cooked/ate dinner with one team. Perception is a mean, nasty thing. :tsk:

PimpSmoke
09-21-2011, 07:49 PM
The whole post was one that brought too much doubt to the process, and was inflammatory. Please see:

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14263

GreenDrake
09-21-2011, 08:09 PM
Great information, thank you for sharing. I would love to judge but I can't seem to get away from wanting to get that elusive GC. I am determined to stay at it until I take home the big one. My chicken has improved substantially, ribs, getting there, butt, on it...brisket, need to keep at it. Granted sometimes it's luck, sometimes it's everything going perfectly for ya. I have only competed for two years and have five walks but that GC is the prize I want more than anything...sometimes I missed it by a few points. Keepin at it. Thanks again for your insight.

HONCHO GREGORY
09-21-2011, 10:08 PM
Great post, I would hope that you send this to Kell from BBQ News. I would also hope he would print it.

I see alot of _itchin about judges lately. Do you think it's the judges or the reps that are the root of the judging questions ?

I didn't see this started in 2004, till the last post
but it is an eye opener for sure

Hub
09-22-2011, 06:24 AM
As a KCBS Reb and after the 22nd a CBJ trainer I only have some comments.

1. The judge that would not eat chicken skin, during his training he was old what KCBS expect him to do. He was instructed to bite off a piece with the meat and chew to judge texture and taste at this point he can remove to his napkin, he does not have to swallow it. By coming to judge he is stating that he is willing to judge what the cook wanted to present.
I would have talk to the judge about what we expect, from there decide if the judge would continue to judge.

2. Not only are the judges told smokering is not to be considered but so are the cooks. When the judges do consider smokering it puts cooks in a tough situation.

As a cook I want to be judged within the rules, just a fair shot. I also understand judges will give smokering points, so I best have it there but it makes the competing harder.

Robert, it was your first time judging and what you found does not surprise me, but it is about giving the cooks the best shot within the rules. As you judge more I hope you will find it different.

Glad to see these corrections here. I'll add one more piece of advice: When judging, you are not juding to your personal tastes, but to how well the meats meet the standards (they are often broad and sometimes vague) -- go to the kcbs site for a copy of the judges CD and read it. Most skilled judges are looking for great BALANCE in the entry. This means no one thing (sauce, smoke, rub, injection, mop, etcl) dominates the flavor but that all combine to produce an exciting blend of great flavor. Combine this will proper texture and good appearance and high scores result.

Welcome to the judging world! It's fun but a very important job. The cooks invest lots of money and time to compete and they deserve only the very best in judging.

rksylves
09-22-2011, 07:02 AM
Just a couple of comments.

I wouldn't get too close or too 'chummy' with a team before judging. Strolling by and saying 'good morning' or 'good luck' is fine in my book. Asking about recipes, cook times/temps, etc. is over the line. My rule is to stay out of a team's camp before judging. I can visit and BS afterwards.

Smoke ring is way overblown. I don't judge up or down based on it. I've had product that had no ring at all and it was wonderful, and I've had product that had a huge dark ring that was awful.

Judge the product as presented. Don't take skin off or change the presentation. Take at least one bite the way the team wanted it done. They made the decision and worked their butts off to get it that way, I at least can take one bite the way it was meant.

Why would an entry get DQ'd if it LOOKED LIKE the ribs weren't completely seperated? Appearance phase would NOT be the time to DQ for that reason. When a sample is pulled from the box and it doesn't seperate from the others causing a shortage of samples, THAT would be the time to DQ.

Russ

bbq.tom
09-22-2011, 08:22 AM
Just a couple of comments.

I wouldn't get too close or too 'chummy' with a team before judging. Strolling by and saying 'good morning' or 'good luck' is fine in my book. Asking about recipes, cook times/temps, etc. is over the line. My rule is to stay out of a team's camp before judging. I can visit and BS afterwards.

Smoke ring is way overblown. I don't judge up or down based on it. I've had product that had no ring at all and it was wonderful, and I've had product that had a huge dark ring that was awful.

Judge the product as presented. Don't take skin off or change the presentation. Take at least one bite the way the team wanted it done. They made the decision and worked their butts off to get it that way, I at least can take one bite the way it was meant.

Why would an entry get DQ'd if it LOOKED LIKE the ribs weren't completely seperated? Appearance phase would NOT be the time to DQ for that reason. When a sample is pulled from the box and it doesn't seperate from the others causing a shortage of samples, THAT would be the time to DQ.

Russ

GREAT comments!!!!!!!

QN
09-22-2011, 08:49 AM
Why would an entry get DQ'd if it LOOKED LIKE the ribs weren't completely seperated? Appearance phase would NOT be the time to DQ for that reason. When a sample is pulled from the box and it doesn't seperate from the others causing a shortage of samples, THAT would be the time to DQ.
Russ

The rule used to be that there had to be six "separate and identifiable" pieces of meat in the box. If the six ribs were submitted together as one slab then they may not have been able to see six separate ribs. That rule has since been changed to work as you have described. The lack of the required number of samples is not determined until that last judge ends up without anything to judge. Then all six judges are instructed to score it a 1 on appearance. This decision is made by the rep only.

Boshizzle
09-22-2011, 10:22 PM
And, there is nothing wrong with holding the meat over the box a couple of seconds in an attempt to let a piece drop back in the box. IMO, the last resort should be a DQ. If the pieces don't drop back in the box, OK a DQ is warranted. But, give them a chance, at least.

Bikini BBQ
09-22-2011, 11:02 PM
Nice read, I found it very informative. Thanks again !