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View Full Version : A little help to get by.....


Clark
07-21-2010, 10:39 AM
Hoping I can get a few comments on my boxes from last weekend. It has been a good year so far, much better than last (our first year where we did 2 comps). We've done four comps so far this year and have been fortunate enough to win a few categories and get a bunch of calls. Ring in last weekend. 3rd last including last place in brisket. No comment cards. Our presentation marks were horrid and while I see a few issues looking back over them I'm a little puzzled so hoping you guys can give me some feed back! (the sauce on the chicken was too thick and the ribs were probably too dark.....)

My Thoughts

Pork - the sauce should have been mixed a little better. However we got a couple of 6's so I'm thinking I'm missing something much bigger.
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg297/cdeutscher/Birch%20Bay/2009.jpg

Brisket - Sauce is pooled too much but again 3 6's and a 5.....
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg297/cdeutscher/Birch%20Bay/2016.jpg

Chicken - Normally I present them the other way in the shell, we disolved the salt before the turn in with a little AJ. This one got 3 6's and 3 9's.
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg297/cdeutscher/Birch%20Bay/2018.jpg

Ribs - To many blotches or spice....This one was 8 across the board so not as concerned.
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg297/cdeutscher/Birch%20Bay/2020.jpg

Thanks for any help!

Clark

RobKC
07-21-2010, 11:17 AM
Pork - The pulled looks very dry. Are there chunks around the pulled? Hard to tell in the pic. - 6

Brisket - You should try trimming the flat to the width of the box before cooking so all slices are the same length. I know the smoke ring is to be ignored, but that one looks like a TQ ring. Brush the sauce onto the back of each slice. Spritz with warm water before closing the lid. - 6 or 7

Chicken - The pic makes them look too dark. I think they could have been arranged better with a little more thought. The natural chicken thigh shape does not bother me at all, but you could probably do a little more trimming on each piece to make them look better. - 7 or 8

Ribs - solid 8

Clark
07-21-2010, 12:24 PM
Thanks Rob!.

Those are chunks around the pulled. We've been doing a border of chunks with coarse pulled in the middle.

For the brisket it is TQ. The only reason we tried it was because the last two comps we were middle of the road in brisket and received four comment cards (1 from one comp and three from the other) stating our smoke ring wasn't large enough. Figured I'd give this a try but middle of the road is better than last so......Thanks for the tip on cutting the brisket down before cooking.

The chicken was arranged that way to cover some blemishes to be honest......Just thought 6 was pretty low because we hadn't received them before.

Clark

Lake Dogs
07-21-2010, 01:08 PM
I think Rob hit the high points. Also, on the pulled pork, I'd fill the box a bit more. On
ours we barely even see the green "background" at all. The chicken; I dont see 6's
there, but then I dont see 9's either... an 8, give or take... Ribs and/or Brisket, for
me it's a little tough to tell from the pics, but I'm thinking 7's... However, what
happens sometimes is that if a box gets bumped/tossed around in transit, the picture
that you have at your table and the box that's received by judges isn't the same.
For that reason we really try hard to fill the box as much as possible, and of course
treat it very gingerly in transit.

RobKC
07-21-2010, 01:21 PM
More on the pork - Use bigger chunks. Sauce and season on the cutting board before putting them, and the pulled, in the box.

Captain Caveman
07-21-2010, 04:37 PM
For me, the sauce color is too brown (could be the camera). The pork and brisket look dry. On the brisket, you might want to try to get your slices from the other end of the flat (the part that is under the point).

bignburlyman
07-21-2010, 05:07 PM
As I've said before, scoring off pictures gives more chance to see flaws, in a 10 second look at the scoring table I think the more the meat kind of jumps out of the box the better.

Pork 7 I didn't care for the way the framing was done, it is kind of like an infinity box---white frame, green frame, bark frame, meat in the middle.

Brisket 7 Usually I like the look of the fanned slices, but I think you may have started too close to the end, the first slice being so much smaller than the back slice. (Note: As a skilled CBJ I would take the next to last slice for my sample :grin: )

Chicken 7-8 All the pieces seem to have an irregular shape, and I looks like there are some white spots in the glaze---could just be the picture. I also think with a tighter arrangement and not so much green in the middle would help.

Ribs 7-8 The ribs look really good, but when I look at the picture all I think of is it looks like an two handled jug in the box. I think layering 4 bottom then 3 on top would still give the judge a chance to actually see the side of the rib if that is what you are trying to show.

But with a 10 second look at the table I may have scored a little different, when I have time to study I seem to be more critical.

Mike - CSBBBQ
07-21-2010, 05:51 PM
Pork - The pulled looks very dry. Are there chunks around the pulled? Hard to tell in the pic. - 6

Brisket - You should try trimming the flat to the width of the box before cooking so all slices are the same length. I know the smoke ring is to be ignored, but that one looks like a TQ ring. Brush the sauce onto the back of each slice. Spritz with warm water before closing the lid. - 6 or 7

Chicken - The pic makes them look too dark. I think they could have been arranged better with a little more thought. The natural chicken thigh shape does not bother me at all, but you could probably do a little more trimming on each piece to make them look better. - 7 or 8

Ribs - solid 8

For what it is worth, excellent review

Alexa RnQ
07-21-2010, 07:24 PM
For the brisket it is TQ. The only reason we tried it was because the last two comps we were middle of the road in brisket and received four comment cards (1 from one comp and three from the other) stating our smoke ring wasn't large enough.

What the what?

What show / sanctioning body was this? :confused:

Clark
07-21-2010, 08:19 PM
Thanks guys this is all very helpful!

Diva - It is PNWBA and I know........figured what the heck might as well try and give it a goif that's what they wanted even though they aren't supposed to mark on them. Also got one comment card that we were marked down because a piece of parsley stuck to the chicken, finished second in chicken......damn.

Clark

boogiesnap
07-21-2010, 08:20 PM
yup, just like in another thread a CBJ was mentioned as thinking the garnish needed work.

maybe the judges SHOULD talk at the table.

boogiesnap
07-21-2010, 08:31 PM
parsley stuck marked???

that aint good EITHER!!!!

really???

man alive, we spend alot of time, energy, thought, love, and money, on this stuff. i expect the criteria of judging to be enforced OR change the damn criteria, so we are all working with WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS AT THE JUDGING TABLE! and approach it as such.

geez, this is good food, presented as perfectly as possible. not nucleur fission. can't it be gotten right?

Alexa RnQ
07-21-2010, 08:31 PM
Diva - It is PNWBA and I know........figured what the heck might as well try and give it a goif that's what they wanted even though they aren't supposed to mark on them. Also got one comment card that we were marked down because a piece of parsley stuck to the chicken, finished second in chicken......damn.
Wow. http://www.divaherself.com/funny/blank.gif

Clark
07-21-2010, 08:52 PM
I wasn't honestly that upset by it. I know it isn't supposed to be marked but at least they were honest so we weren't guessing......I hat not getting any comment cards and low scores like this time, that frustrates me much much more!

Clark

Ron_L
07-21-2010, 09:19 PM
All good comments so far. One thing that i would add would be to build the parsley bed higher to bring the food up in the box. Make the food the star.

boogiesnap
07-21-2010, 09:25 PM
nice observation ron.

sharks_guy
07-21-2010, 10:17 PM
As I've said before, scoring off pictures gives more chance to see flaws, in a 10 second look at the scoring table I think the more the meat kind of jumps out of the box the better.

Pork 7 I didn't care for the way the framing was done, it is kind of like an infinity box---white frame, green frame, bark frame, meat in the middle.

Brisket 7 Usually I like the look of the fanned slices, but I think you may have started too close to the end, the first slice being so much smaller than the back slice. (Note: As a skilled CBJ I would take the next to last slice for my sample :grin: )

Chicken 7-8 All the pieces seem to have an irregular shape, and I looks like there are some white spots in the glaze---could just be the picture. I also think with a tighter arrangement and not so much green in the middle would help.

Ribs 7-8 The ribs look really good, but when I look at the picture all I think of is it looks like an two handled jug in the box. I think layering 4 bottom then 3 on top would still give the judge a chance to actually see the side of the rib if that is what you are trying to show.

But with a 10 second look at the table I may have scored a little different, when I have time to study I seem to be more critical.


All the previous advice is excellent.

With that said....To me, as bignburly said, the white specs on chicken and brisket were distracting. Was this seasoning? or is it just the camera? If seasoning, I probably would have marked down if I was judging(appearance)Not too appealing to see big chucks of seasoning (Again assuming that is what it was)

Also, for what it is worth, I love the fan of the brisket, but would hate to be the judge to get one of those bottom two pieces. Could you perhaps run a fan but use larger pieces? or put more pieces so that all the judges get larger pieces, and the smaller pieces are for the TC or others? From what I have seen, most judges like larger portions, and may have judged down if they got the small pieces.

Good luck on future comps.
Dan D.

Clark
07-21-2010, 10:20 PM
The white specs are kosher salt,they were gone before the box closed, hit the chicken with aj and the brisket with water......

Excellent point on the fanning and we could definately get more pieces in there so there are more larger pieces.....For some reason I thought the smaller pieces would be tastier!

Thanks again everyone, this is all very helpful!

Clark

swamprb
07-22-2010, 05:46 AM
Were these boxes from Birch Bay? Because there were no comment cards from the judges at that event. I'm a PNWBA Board Member and won't comment on the judging, but will say that all the recently trained CBJ's in the area had been contacted and turns out that most were competing! There were a few first time judges/cooks along with Markets staff and a good mix of seasoned CBJ's at Birch Bay.

I figured the specks on the chicken was K-salt, and I was hoping that you had wiped off the water/AJ misting before turning your boxes in?
You may want to try to trim the thighs a little better, the sauce looks dry and overall not very appealing to the eye.

The fanned out Brisket box may have P/O'd the judges the got the short end of the beef! I did a couple Tri-Tip boxes like that and took my lumps and will never again turn the flying V! ( Hint - fill up the box if you can )

The Ribs look OK- a little dry, and the jagged edges need work. Sharper knife and no sawing.

The parsley boxes look great, but I've learned that you have to have tight putting greens and I make a point of not saucing the bottom of my chicken. Its common knowledge that I make my putting greens beforehand and transfer them after the cooks meeting into the provided boxes and have had conversations with several Head Judges concerning "sticking parsley" and they are reminded at the Judges Meetings not to score down because of it. But on the other hand I've also sat and judged and had to literally scrape off parsley from meats that looked like Chia thighs, and it makes you wonder if it was part of the seasoning?

Clark-post those pics on the PNWBA forum and get some local feedback, talk to the Head Judges after the contest and tell them your process, and get their opinions, it will help. If you have comment card issues, bring them up at the cooks meeting and it will be brought to their attention.
I can't stress how important it is if you want to play this game, take a Cooking or Judging class offered by the PNWBA, it will help.

I cook for the judges at a comp and cook for myself, friends and family at home.

See ya at Whistler!