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Vince RnQ
06-28-2010, 09:09 PM
While looking over the KCBS results for this past weekend, (June 25-27), I noticed that two events had some odd numbers. Let me explain...

The first one is Ada, OK. The Overall results show 25 teams at the contest but a closer look at the category results reveals that 25 teams cooked Chicken but Ribs, Pork and Brisket only had 17 teams with turn-ins. Looks like a the field was loaded with Chicken cooks in order to make a qualifier as it seems like a pretty odd coincidence that 8 teams somehow missed each of the next three categories.

The other contest is Independence, KS. This contest also shows Overall results for 25 teams but no single category had 25 turn-ins. Chicken had 23, Ribs had 24, Pork had 24 and Brisket had 24. Again, it looks odd but maybe some teams really did miss turn-ins.

There is no possible way, according to KCBS scoring policy, that any of the missing teams can be DQs as a DQ will get a score of 20 in the category but a missed turn-in will get a zero.

What think you?

ThomEmery
06-28-2010, 09:22 PM
I may be mistaken but I thought 3 categories had to be over 25 to be a qualifier

Finney
06-28-2010, 09:32 PM
I don't think either of them are supposed count as qualifiers with those numbers.

But what do I know?!?!?

swamprb
06-28-2010, 09:57 PM
Sounds skinky to me?

As someone who has been recruited to cook to make an event a 25 team qualifier (I came to judge the KCBS event) it was explained to me that we had to turn in all four categories, or it would not be a qualifying event.

Smokin' Joe
06-28-2010, 10:02 PM
I also believe the rule is 25 teams turning in all categories to be a qualifier

Jeff_in_KC
06-28-2010, 10:33 PM
It's being looked into. I don't care either way. However, I will say this... I think that if one team is late and misses the turn in for a DQ in an otherwise 25 team, all teams turned in contest, that it's a load of chit that it would no longer be a qualifier. But hey, it's up to the Jack and the Royal to decide anyway. It's their contests so their rules.

KC_Bobby
06-28-2010, 11:47 PM
From my understanding, if a team is late - say 40 seconds, but attempted to turn in, say brisket - that it counts as an entry. But if the 25th team never brought it up, it doesn't count and then the event is not a qualifier.

I'm not sure if that is correct or not, just my interpretation of what I thought the rule was.

DawgPhan
06-29-2010, 08:27 AM
Just another in the long list of weird stuff that goes on in the name of the Jack. As it were I would put that Ada contest up against any 25 team field contest and bet that Ada was tougher to win. Look at the field, hell the guy that won it has been on two World Champion teams and the RGC had a 180 in pork.

Finney
06-29-2010, 09:38 AM
Ada might have been tough to win but it was still truthfully only a 17 team event and therefore shouldn't count as a quaifier.

Independence would be a little more on the fence for me except that the 25th team "Baby Back Bankers" didn't turn in an entry for any category. Was there really a 25th team there?

DawgPhan
06-29-2010, 10:23 AM
Ada might have been tough to win but it was still truthfully only a 17 team event and therefore shouldn't count as a quaifier.

Independence would be a little more on the fence for me except that the 25th team "Baby Back Bankers" didn't turn in an entry for any category. Was there really a 25th team there?


Well no the truth is that if The Jack wants it to be a qualifier it is, and if they dont it isn't. That is the truth of the matter.

Finney
06-29-2010, 10:48 AM
That is true. If the Jack wants it to count, it will.

But they should also be told that it was only 17 teams so that they can make a fair decision, and I doubt that info will make it to them.

DawgPhan
06-29-2010, 12:03 PM
That is true. If the Jack wants it to count, it will.

But they should also be told that it was only 17 teams so that they can make a fair decision, and I doubt that info will make it to them.


Exactly, isnt the Jack people's position that the contest organizers have the responsibility to provide the Jack people with the qualifying teams for bung consideration? Not that the responsibility is on the Jack folks to determine which teams should be going in the draw? Didnt someone not get put in the draw last year because their qualifying contest didnt send in the proper paperwork?

sizzlinbonesfan
06-29-2010, 01:44 PM
Hmmm... :confused: Interesting! I've actually seen this scenerio in other contests earlier in the year. Didn't realize it was a "Jack" thing... but makes since now. Just thought a couple of teams didn't turn in that catagory! hmmmm

Happy BBQ'n
Alissa
Okie from Muskogee (up the road from Ada.. to bad I didn't get to go!)

Jeff_in_KC
06-29-2010, 03:43 PM
Ada might have been tough to win but it was still truthfully only a 17 team event and therefore shouldn't count as a quaifier.

Independence would be a little more on the fence for me except that the 25th team "Baby Back Bankers" didn't turn in an entry for any category. Was there really a 25th team there?

Yes the Baby Back Bankers did turn in a category... they turned in pork. One other team turned in two categories. I do not have my score sheet with me at work to recall which one it was.

As for Independence being a quality event, We had a Royal champion, a former KCBS team of the year and that doesn't count having JP and Donny there. There were four of the current KCBS top ten overall teams at this little contest. We looked at this as a pretty damned good win for us against some quality competition!

ModelMaker
06-29-2010, 03:53 PM
From my understanding, if a team is late - say 40 seconds, but attempted to turn in, say brisket - that it counts as an entry. But if the 25th team never brought it up, it doesn't count and then the event is not a qualifier.

I'm not sure if that is correct or not, just my interpretation of what I thought the rule was.



I find it hard to beleive that anyone would miss say a brisket entry by a mere 40 seconds, (especially if that person was only responsable for say 2 meats) and I bet it was a very nice looking box that had a lets say very well cooked brisky in it.
Ed

Finney
06-29-2010, 04:27 PM
Yes the Baby Back Bankers did turn in a category... they turned in pork. One other team turned in two categories. I do not have my score sheet with me at work to recall which one it was.

As for Independence being a quality event, We had a Royal champion, a former KCBS team of the year and that doesn't count having JP and Donny there. There were four of the current KCBS top ten overall teams at this little contest. We looked at this as a pretty damned good win for us against some quality competition!

You are correct, I didn't see their name when I looked at the list earlier today.

Jeff, I am in mo way trying to down play your win. Congratulations!

I just added my opinion on the topic that was presented. Should the comps in question be qualifier or not. Ada no, Independence I am on the fence. (again, now that I saw BBB did turn in an entry). Once again... only my opinions.

Vince RnQ
06-29-2010, 04:39 PM
It's being looked into. I don't care either way. However, I will say this... I think that if one team is late and misses the turn in for a DQ in an otherwise 25 team, all teams turned in contest, that it's a load of chit that it would no longer be a qualifier. But hey, it's up to the Jack and the Royal to decide anyway. It's their contests so their rules.

Jeff, first of all, congratulations on another win and on the great season you're having. You've done a great job!

Regarding the Independence, KS contest, as that is the one you cooked, I find it to be much less disturbing than the Ada, OK contest. What doesn't make any sense to me is that one team, Baby Back Bankers, turned in only Pork while another team, Slow'n Easy, turned in only Ribs and Brisket. Since you were there, I was wondering of you know either of those teams and if, perhaps either or both are new?

As for Ada, OK, that looks pretty obvious to me.

Again, Jeff, keep up the great work!!

Vince RnQ
06-29-2010, 04:45 PM
Well no the truth is that if The Jack wants it to be a qualifier it is, and if they dont it isn't. That is the truth of the matter.

And what do you think about the contest sanctioning body, KCBS in this case, having a moral respoinsibility to give honest and accurate information to the invitational contests?

There is no doubt that Bart Clarke is a world class cook and a World Champion on two separate teams. Nor is there any doubt that the Ada, OK contest had other excellent teams cooking there as well. But the criteria for a qualifier is 25 teams, not 17 teams and 8 chicken cooks. It also isn't 5 teams and 20 chicken cooks. I feel the sanctioning body has an obligation to keep the record straight.

Jeff_in_KC
06-29-2010, 05:58 PM
Jeff, first of all, congratulations on another win and on the great season you're having. You've done a great job!

Regarding the Independence, KS contest, as that is the one you cooked, I find it to be much less disturbing than the Ada, OK contest. What doesn't make any sense to me is that one team, Baby Back Bankers, turned in only Pork while another team, Slow'n Easy, turned in only Ribs and Brisket. Since you were there, I was wondering of you know either of those teams and if, perhaps either or both are new?

As for Ada, OK, that looks pretty obvious to me.

Again, Jeff, keep up the great work!!

Slow n' Easy is a team from Olathe, Kansas that is part of the American Barbecue Systems group of teams (the guys that make the ABS Smokers). Nice guys. They sponsor our contest here in Pleasant Hill and compete in it (along with "Rub You Long Time", another ABS team also on the team roster at Independence). I have zero idea as to why they did not turn in two categories. They are a legitimate team, I can vouche for them not going to just turn in two categories to get us to 25 teams. And if they did, why in the hell would either of these teams cook the big meats and have hours of babysitting? Why not just turn in chicken or ribs if that was the goal?

Do I want this to qualify? Absolutely I do. Will I be pissed if it does not? No way. But I think before Independence, Kansas is just written off, it should be looked at from all angles.

Thanks for the congrats, Vince. You know I think you and Alexa are the bomb. No hard feelings at all.

Lion Bout The Q
06-29-2010, 08:15 PM
Exactly, isnt the Jack people's position that the contest organizers have the responsibility to provide the Jack people with the qualifying teams for bung consideration? Not that the responsibility is on the Jack folks to determine which teams should be going in the draw? Didnt someone not get put in the draw last year because their qualifying contest didnt send in the proper paperwork?
Is this true?its the contests responsibility to get the info to the jack?

Vince RnQ
06-29-2010, 08:15 PM
Jeff, I agree that contests that raise questions should truly be looked at for the intent of the teams that registered and I would have to say that based upon your knowledge of the teams that misssed turn-in this contest would be legit with regards to being a qualifier.

DawgPhan
06-29-2010, 08:37 PM
And what do you think about the contest sanctioning body, KCBS in this case, having a moral respoinsibility to give honest and accurate information to the invitational contests?

There is no doubt that Bart Clarke is a world class cook and a World Champion on two separate teams. Nor is there any doubt that the Ada, OK contest had other excellent teams cooking there as well. But the criteria for a qualifier is 25 teams, not 17 teams and 8 chicken cooks. It also isn't 5 teams and 20 chicken cooks. I feel the sanctioning body has an obligation to keep the record straight.


I dont know about a moral responsibility. I am not sure, but I would think that since contest organizers pay the sanctioning fee by the team that if an organizer paid for and had 25 teams sanctioned that KCBS could easily say that it was a qualifier.