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Butcher BBQ
06-21-2010, 09:26 PM
I was scanning thru the event section of the KCBS website when I seen that Sam's Club is hosting an Invitational cook off in Midwest City Oklahoma on August 20 and 21. It will be a $25,000 payout and the invitations will be for the top 25 teams in the TOY standings.

I remember a thread over the winter where we all talked about having a cook off with the top teams for a TOY finals. This could be just what we discussed only time will tell.

Alexa RnQ
06-22-2010, 10:26 AM
How interesting! But it begs the question, which ToY standings? The completed ones from last season, or the halfway-in-process current season?

At eight weeks out, I wonder how many of those teams have revised their schedules to attend?

smknwhlswife
06-22-2010, 10:48 AM
How interesting! But it begs the question, which ToY standings? The completed ones from last season, or the halfway-in-process current season?

At eight weeks out, I wonder how many of those teams have revised their schedules to attend?

That was what I was wondering.

Jacked UP BBQ
06-22-2010, 12:14 PM
IMO there is really no fair way to get a list that early in the year of who deserves to go based on the beginning half of one season. They should look at the way the jack and other invitationals do it to get their list. I am sure they have it figured out, just typing my thoughts.

Jeff_in_KC
06-22-2010, 12:16 PM
How interesting! But it begs the question, which ToY standings? The completed ones from last season, or the halfway-in-process current season?

At eight weeks out, I wonder how many of those teams have revised their schedules to attend?

If it was for THIS year's teams, I wouldn't make it. I'm in Excelsior Springs that weekend with a shot at the combined Excelsior/St. Joseph North Missouri championship.

DMDon
06-22-2010, 01:22 PM
I wouldn't mind going. I think our wins should be considered, but we just can't cook enough contests to even sniff the top 25 in TOY.

Paola Greg
06-22-2010, 01:35 PM
I've been told the invitations would be sent to the top 50 teams,but I don't know if that is based on last years results or the current. I have asked though.

KC_Bobby
06-22-2010, 02:56 PM
Top 50 in points this year through June 30.

Paola Greg
06-22-2010, 03:00 PM
Yep I got the same answer.

Jorge
06-22-2010, 03:04 PM
I wouldn't mind going. I think our wins should be considered, but we just can't cook enough contests to even sniff the top 25 in TOY.

The Royal and GAB can't do a contest every other month:-P:becky::becky:

Plowboy
06-22-2010, 03:28 PM
There are 13 other sanctioned contests that same weekend across the country. Sounds like a great time to pull the top 50 teams to Oklahoma in middle of summer. :crazy: It can't be that hot in OKC in August... can it? :rolleyes:

Plowboy
06-22-2010, 03:30 PM
I wouldn't mind going. I think our wins should be considered, but we just can't cook enough contests to even sniff the top 25 in TOY.

Not winning enough prize money to cover expenses?

Plowboy
06-22-2010, 03:32 PM
Although, for $25,000 it might be a good one to cook. You might get 30 teams there out of the top 50. That's a lot of cheddar.

grillzilla10
06-22-2010, 03:37 PM
I wish that my local Sams Club would have a bbq event and the winner would move on ,you know like a play off.

Scottie
06-22-2010, 03:40 PM
How interesting! But it begs the question, which ToY standings? The completed ones from last season, or the halfway-in-process current season?

At eight weeks out, I wonder how many of those teams have revised their schedules to attend?


We will once again screw this up and have a completely different calendar than what The Jack, AR or GAB has... Sooner or later everyone will get on the same page.

And if it a true championship... why go on a half a season to be invited? I guarantee you that the end of the aseason point totals, will be completely different than what the half way point of the season will look. I guess it pays to load up on your early season contests and not the end of the season...

KC_Bobby
06-22-2010, 03:40 PM
I wish that my local Sams Club would have a bbq event and the winner would move on ,you know like a play off.

Can teams pick which Sam's Club we want to participate at? :becky: Roadtrip!

Captain Caveman
06-22-2010, 03:41 PM
I wish that my local Sams Club would have a bbq event and the winner would move on ,you know like a play off.

I like that idea!

Butcher BBQ
06-22-2010, 05:09 PM
I did get an email stating that it will be the top 50 teams. This contest will be done along with the unveiling of there new meat market with all the special meats. One possible reason Midwest City was chosen could be that it was the 1st Sam's Club ever built and just across town was the 1st meat market the company ever had.

Plowboy
06-22-2010, 05:46 PM
I did get an email stating that it will be the top 50 teams. This contest will be done along with the unveiling of there new meat market with all the special meats. One possible reason Midwest City was chosen could be that it was the 1st Sam's Club ever built and just across town was the 1st meat market the company ever had.

You the official Sam's Club meat spokesperson?

Vince RnQ
06-22-2010, 06:37 PM
Phoenix Metro to OKC Metro - That's been our Day 1 drive the last two years as we've made our way to Lynchburg.

Butcher BBQ
06-22-2010, 07:17 PM
You the official Sam's Club meat spokesperson?

Nope just years of pay checks from them you gain a lot of company culture.

Jeff_in_KC
06-22-2010, 10:54 PM
I'm not sure doing it this year was the best idea. I'd rather see it late in the season, maybe a warm climate in mid-November with more time to plan and market to teams. Then, not only would you have a late season championship for the teams who've hung in for the long haul, you would have a perfect setting to cap off potentially tight ToY races just like last year. What was in Arizona in 2009 that came down to the final contest, would be this big time KCBS backed event with all the top teams! Could it get any better? I firmly believe we need a playoff system in this... oops! Wrong sport! Was thinking college football! This is a great idea and has tons of potential. How they're doing it for year one is not bad though! Thanks to Sam's and KCBS for getting this together! We might re-consider Excelsior Springs if this takes flight...

Plowboy
06-22-2010, 11:51 PM
You gotta look at it from Sam's Club's perspective. A BBQ contest in November makes no sense for them when all of the seasonal BBQ stuff is put away and their clubs are full of Christmas items. Middle of summer matches their business objectives. Makes sense to me.

Jorge
06-23-2010, 08:25 AM
The location looks like they picked something fairly close to half way between east and west coasts.

Unless I'm mistaken Sam's is also the title sponsor for the TOY race. A mid season invitational event with some $$ makes sense. Whoever finishes on top at the end of the year is going to get paid it seems, so the teams that are still standing at the end of the season get some $$. Teams that start the season earlier, and don't cook later in the year still have a shot at some $$ this way.

Looks like a pretty good start to me.

Scottie
06-23-2010, 09:28 AM
If they are awarding the TOY and Invitational teams with Sam's money, they are blocking out probably 97%+ of KCBS members BBQ teams from competing or benefiting from this sponsorship. I am not sure how that is good for the rest of KCBS teams? To say that June 30th of the season is a good judge of how the season top 50 or top 100 KCBS teams is mistaken. I'd bet the TOY will change dramatically from June to December. I guess you should load up on contests from March to end of June to benefit, instead of the summer months of June, July and August. For those whose season doesn't start until June, you are screwed.



Just some thoughts...

Jorge
06-23-2010, 09:32 AM
If they are awarding the TOY and Invitational teams with Sam's money, they are blocking out probably 97%+ of KCBS members BBQ teams from competing or benefiting from this sponsorship. I am not sure how that is good for the rest of KCBS teams? To say that June 30th of the season is a good judge of how the season top 50 or top 100 KCBS teams is mistaken. I'd bet the TOY will change dramatically from June to December. I guess you should load up on contests from March to end of June to benefit, instead of the summer months of June, July and August. For those whose season doesn't start until June, you are screwed.

Just some thoughts...

I don't know where the $25k in August is coming from. Since I haven't heard that included in the BoD podcasts, and I think that would require a vote, I'm guessing it's from Sam's and/or other sponsors.

Plowboy
06-23-2010, 02:12 PM
If they are awarding the TOY and Invitational teams with Sam's money, they are blocking out probably 97%+ of KCBS members BBQ teams from competing or benefiting from this sponsorship. I am not sure how that is good for the rest of KCBS teams? To say that June 30th of the season is a good judge of how the season top 50 or top 100 KCBS teams is mistaken. I'd bet the TOY will change dramatically from June to December. I guess you should load up on contests from March to end of June to benefit, instead of the summer months of June, July and August. For those whose season doesn't start until June, you are screwed.

Just some thoughts...

KCBS TOY and Invitational are apples and oranges when it comes to Sam's money. Plus, I'm betting we don't yet know all of the ways that KCBS members will benefit from the sponsorship. Money for an event and TOY race are probably only part of it.

I do agree about using a mid year TOY ranking for an invitational.

Arlin_MacRae
06-23-2010, 02:38 PM
Sweet. That's about five minutes from us. FINALLY, a local comp.

Scottie
06-23-2010, 02:43 PM
No matter which way you want it spun. The majority of the society will not get a monetary benifit. It will only be a very low percentage of KCBS members.

And I don't believe it is apples and oranges. Especially after listening to the BOD meetings. While they did not specifically say an amount. You can only summize that it is a good amount, with all the hands that are in the cookie jar...

Why would using a half way through the season points for TOY be a good measuring point for TOY? It fluctuates from week to week. While the top 10 might just move positions. Teams that are in the 25-100 range can drastically change from week to week.

Lastly. Whose points do you use? KCBS does not keep track of all it's members for points. So could a team be left off by a clerical error? Or do you use Pickled Pig stats and just admit that this KCBS way of measuring TOY is so 1990's....

deena
06-23-2010, 02:45 PM
Too bad they are not including other sanctioning organizations like the AR and Jack. Not many of us in the Pacific Northwest cook in KCBS event. We are almost all PNWBA events.

Jeff_in_KC
06-23-2010, 02:52 PM
While not perfect, I think you guys are looking at this way too negatively. It's a start towards something that could be great eventually. Let's just wait and see what happens with it. I'm just excited there are new things popping up.

Scottie
06-23-2010, 03:05 PM
Jeff, FWIW I am not looking at it negatively. I am all for advancement of our hobby. But to me, this only benefits a select few and I do not know how this is good for the rest of the society? How are those folks that cook one contest a year by 6/30 will feel about it? How would you feel if you only cooked 9 contests and were short by 2 points in the TOY because you didn't get a 10th qualifying contest in?

I guess I am looking at it with a different angle than just a top 50 team. Granted it is my choice this year to not cook 25-30 contests. I don't think that should be a requirement to get some additional recognition from our sanctioning body.

Candy Sue
06-23-2010, 03:20 PM
Jeff, FWIW I am not looking at it negatively. I am all for advancement of our hobby. But to me, this only benefits a select few and I do not know how this is good for the rest of the society? How are those folks that cook one contest a year by 6/30 will feel about it? How would you feel if you only cooked 9 contests and were short by 2 points in the TOY because you didn't get a 10th qualifying contest in?

I guess I am looking at it with a different angle than just a top 50 team. Granted it is my choice this year to not cook 25-30 contests. I don't think that should be a requirement to get some additional recognition from our sanctioning body.

Using that logic, how many teams are left out of TOY by not cooking 10 contests? Used to be under the old system, just 5 best contests in each category and OL used to compute TOY. If a team cooked 10 contests and did great at 5 of them, they might be in the running for TOY. Not possible now.

Scottie
06-23-2010, 03:33 PM
well, I guess it wasn't just logic on my part. I remember when that whole TOY deal from 5 to 10 contests was going down. and I beleive again last year, teams were in a uproar over it. They wanted different divisions, et al. for KCBS TOY. I am not sure how this is placating those teams now? To me, that is a bigger wedge being driven?

I have always felt that KCBS is not driven by a few teams, but by the whole KCBS as a whole. Meaning their is a bigger voice of smaller teams than a select few. I think money is making some blind to what we (KCBS) are really all about.

Candy Sue
06-23-2010, 03:40 PM
... I think money is making some blind to what we (KCBS) are really all about.

And what is KCBS all about for you? Does the mission statement encompass that meaning? KCBS is made up mostly of judges, does that effect what KCBS is about? :crazy: I think I'm thinking way too much today!

Scottie
06-23-2010, 03:52 PM
Honestly Candy, I am not even sure if KCBS works by the Mission statement anymore. Money is making a lot of decisions now. And to use judges as an example... then I would think that if that is the case, then we should be changing the by-laws for elections, et al. that effect cooks v. effecting the "others" of KCBS. We know we aren't going to do that, just like this deal with Sam's Club isn't going to change. while I understand that KCBS is made up of a majority of Judges. It is also made up of a lot of cooks. I believe the last figure I saw was at least 2500+ cooks. So to use that logic... This will effect approximately 2% of the KCBS cooks. 50 divided by 2500... So for these decisions to be made for 2% of the KCBS cooks? I'll stand by what and how my thinking goes.

People "thinking" is a good thing. I like thinking outside of the box, as it also brings discussion. Discussion also brings new ideas, which can lead to good changes. I am not saying this to be a thorn in the BOD side. I am trying to open discussion and to speak from another side than just top teams. I've been on that other side of the fence longer than I have been on this side of the fence. Again, that is by my choice. But to exclude a majority, I am not sure if that is prudent either. And for the record, I will support whatever decision the BOD makes. That is why we elected you all.

Finney
06-23-2010, 06:20 PM
You know, Sam's might have come in and flashed their money and said "This is what we want you to do to get it".

Smokin' Joe
06-23-2010, 07:43 PM
I think we are over thinking this a bit. I believe that Sams wanted to do a Comp and wanted to make it special/exclusive but do it on sort of a test scale to get their feet wet. To accomplish this they needed a system to select the teams that would get an invitation...they could have just picked some teams with name recognition, instead they picked the TOY rankings with a cutoff date. This isn't going to replace the TOY, this isn't to slight anyone, it was simply a way to make their event an invitational (why maybe another question)

FWIW I am likely to be one of those teams just out of the top 50 with 7 contests after this weekend, is it perfect? No, but at least this way I had a shot, had they picked "big name" teams I wouldn't have even gotten a sniff. I'm sure it will get better in years to come, but I say give it a chance....my $.02

Jeff_in_KC
06-23-2010, 09:34 PM
Scottie, for that matter, look at all of the teams the Royal and Jack leave out of even consideration. There are close to 100 teams competing in the AR Invitational, give or take. And there were over 4,000 teams competing last year. The Jack is even more exclusive. I don't hear of anyone having a problem with that. Those two invitationals combined may serve 5% of the teams competing in KCBS sanctioned events. I'd imagine there will be a better system in place if this thing grows wings and takes off. But for now, it is what it is. And no, I'm not saying that because of where we are currently. I'd feel the same way if we weren't. And I wouldn't have been disappointed if it had been decided to initiate this in 2011 even though we darned sure won't be in this position this time next year.

Maybe, though, this IS the best way to do it because as has been said, the top 50 as it stands right now will likely be very different at the end of the year. Maybe this is a chance for the teams who won't be there in November and lets them get a shot at some recognition and a shot at the big boys in a head to head competition.

Plowboy
06-23-2010, 11:28 PM
Scottie, for that matter, look at all of the teams the Royal and Jack leave out of even consideration. There are close to 100 teams competing in the AR Invitational, give or take. And there were over 4,000 teams competing last year. The Jack is even more exclusive. I don't hear of anyone having a problem with that. Those two invitationals combined may serve 5% of the teams competing in KCBS sanctioned events. I'd imagine there will be a better system in place if this thing grows wings and takes off. But for now, it is what it is. And no, I'm not saying that because of where we are currently. I'd feel the same way if we weren't. And I wouldn't have been disappointed if it had been decided to initiate this in 2011 even though we darned sure won't be in this position this time next year.

Maybe, though, this IS the best way to do it because as has been said, the top 50 as it stands right now will likely be very different at the end of the year. Maybe this is a chance for the teams who won't be there in November and lets them get a shot at some recognition and a shot at the big boys in a head to head competition.

AR Invitational was 126 last year. Just saying. :thumb:

Finney
06-24-2010, 05:39 AM
AR Invitational was 126 last year. Just saying. :thumb:

I wonder who won that one? :rolleyes:

drbbq
06-24-2010, 05:52 AM
I think the biggest prob is the lack of balls to make a decision, announce it, and stand by it. This thing is less than two months away and all we hear are basically rumors and supposed "Inside info". When will this crap ever stop :(

drbbq
06-24-2010, 05:56 AM
Speaking of rumors, I hear KCBS is now a partner in the LA Tailgate thing. Anyone know anything about that?

Candy Sue
06-24-2010, 09:57 AM
That's not a rumor, it's a fact! KCBS is putting on some cooking and info-type classes. http://www.louisianatailgate.com

LindaM
06-24-2010, 06:38 PM
well, I guess it wasn't just logic on my part. I remember when that whole TOY deal from 5 to 10 contests was going down. and I beleive again last year, teams were in a uproar over it. They wanted different divisions, et al. for KCBS TOY. I am not sure how this is placating those teams now? To me, that is a bigger wedge being driven?

I have always felt that KCBS is not driven by a few teams, but by the whole KCBS as a whole. Meaning their is a bigger voice of smaller teams than a select few. I think money is making some blind to what we (KCBS) are really all about.

It was cooks who put this in play. As you all know I was trying to make those changes. Sorry guys maybe the next board.

DawgPhan
06-25-2010, 10:17 AM
Scottie, for that matter, look at all of the teams the Royal and Jack leave out of even consideration. There are close to 100 teams competing in the AR Invitational, give or take. And there were over 4,000 teams competing last year. The Jack is even more exclusive. I don't hear of anyone having a problem with that. Those two invitationals combined may serve 5% of the teams competing in KCBS sanctioned events. I'd imagine there will be a better system in place if this thing grows wings and takes off. But for now, it is what it is. And no, I'm not saying that because of where we are currently. I'd feel the same way if we weren't. And I wouldn't have been disappointed if it had been decided to initiate this in 2011 even though we darned sure won't be in this position this time next year.

Maybe, though, this IS the best way to do it because as has been said, the top 50 as it stands right now will likely be very different at the end of the year. Maybe this is a chance for the teams who won't be there in November and lets them get a shot at some recognition and a shot at the big boys in a head to head competition.


I think that the point is not about being exclusive, but that the trend is that everything is becoming exclusive. With this Sam's money they are looking to pay the TOY teams and then also have a TOY invitational cookoff and pay those same teams again.

Instead of using that money to bring up the bottom and pay the best teams in the country they are just paying the top teams twice. If that is the way they want to go, that is there business, but it does nothing but make sure that a handful of cooks collect even more checks this season.

But this could have all been handled a little better if KCBS would just announce the schedule and stick to it. Throwing a big money contests in OK in the middle of the year does nothing but reinforce the idea that KCBS is looking to make certain cooks pockets fatter.

drbbq
06-25-2010, 01:41 PM
That's not a rumor, it's a fact! KCBS is putting on some cooking and info-type classes. http://www.louisianatailgate.com

I can't find any mention of KCBS on that page. Who will be doing the classes for KCBS? How were they chosen?

Wasn't there a conflict of interest issue with this contest and a BOD member last year? Is that BOD member still involved?

Jorge
06-25-2010, 04:02 PM
I haven't seen or heard anything definitive. Who is putting up the $25k?

If it's Sam's money that's seperate from the KCBS contract, I don't see the issue. They want to put on the event, and are willing to fund it. They want the biggest/best names in BBQ they can get, and are willing to pay.

If the $25k is coming from that contract, things get a little more complicated.

arlieque
06-25-2010, 06:53 PM
I can't find any mention of KCBS on that page. Who will be doing the classes for KCBS? How were they chosen?

Wasn't there a conflict of interest issue with this contest and a BOD member last year? Is that BOD member still involved?

Yep and it seems there is even more conflicts this year. If they are a partner does that mean they are runnig a contest that they sanctioned for there selfs? And what about the two email blasts they sent out, seems to me alot of other contests woudl like the same treatment? Will the treasury's report show they paid the sanctioning, ads and for the emails blast? I have asked the questions, got a reply from one BOD member that stated it is all legal and approved by the BOD and to get over it? The BOD never has approved a partnership to my knowledge, if it happen will someone please let me know what podcast it is on?

Ford
06-27-2010, 06:19 PM
I think that the point is not about being exclusive, but that the trend is that everything is becoming exclusive. With this Sam's money they are looking to pay the TOY teams and then also have a TOY invitational cookoff and pay those same teams again.

Instead of using that money to bring up the bottom and pay the best teams in the country they are just paying the top teams twice. If that is the way they want to go, that is there business, but it does nothing but make sure that a handful of cooks collect even more checks this season.

But this could have all been handled a little better if KCBS would just announce the schedule and stick to it. Throwing a big money contests in OK in the middle of the year does nothing but reinforce the idea that KCBS is looking to make certain cooks pockets fatter.
And you wonder why I made that poll about where you think the KCBS is going and on where you think it should be going.

Plowboy
06-29-2010, 11:24 AM
<font=sarcasm>The nice thing is that KCBS hides TOY rankings beyond 25th position. So, everyone must be #26.

Jorge
06-29-2010, 11:27 AM
<font=sarcasm>The nice thing is that KCBS hides TOY rankings beyond 25th position. So, everyone must be #26.

Dude, shouldn't you be pushing children out of the way to get to the chicken nuggets at Chef Mickey's?:razz:

Plowboy
06-29-2010, 11:33 AM
Dude, shouldn't you be pushing children out of the way to get to the chicken nuggets at Chef Mickey's?:razz:

You'd think, right?

HoDeDo
07-09-2010, 12:42 PM
Well they put out the official email today and I entered!

Hey Arlin, you and Jean gonna come out and hang... I will need my good luck charms!

Alexa RnQ
07-09-2010, 12:47 PM
And here we went from #42 to #14, one weekend too late. :doh:

Diva
07-09-2010, 12:52 PM
I got my entry in as well. I called and got it in as soon as I saw it and I was #3.

Vince RnQ
07-09-2010, 01:54 PM
And here we went from #42 to #14, one weekend too late. :doh:

The e-mail states they are inviting the Top 30 teams in KCBS ToY as of 07/09/10 so that means were in!

So much for being a weekend too late!

Butcher BBQ
07-09-2010, 03:28 PM
The e-mail states they are inviting the Top 30 teams in KCBS ToY as of 07/09/10 so that means were in!

So much for being a weekend too late!

No your wrong, your not in automatic. They have invited the top 30 but the first 25 to notify them will be in. Act fast.

Alexa RnQ
07-09-2010, 03:31 PM
Oh, it was done as he was posting, trust me! :becky:

The Pickled Pig
07-09-2010, 04:10 PM
Congrats to all those who qualified! It's nice to see another contest with a great prize pool.

Muzzlebrake
07-09-2010, 04:22 PM
Congrats to all the qualifiers! We know who I will be rooting for!
is there a breakdown on the award money?

Butcher BBQ
07-09-2010, 07:22 PM
Oh, it was done as he was posting, trust me! :becky:

Great to hear that. I live about 45 minutes from there so is anyone needs anything that might be traveling in let me know I wills see what I can do.

Jeff_in_KC
07-09-2010, 09:17 PM
We made the snap decision this evening... we're going to Oklahoma instead of Excelsior Springs. Filled out my entry form, scanned it and emailed to Kelly! This ought to be fun!

Diva
07-09-2010, 10:29 PM
25 teams....25 grand.....that's a no-brainer dude.

Jeff_in_KC
07-09-2010, 10:48 PM
25 teams....25 grand.....that's a no-brainer dude.

LOL! Maybe so but SOMEONE has to finish DAL! Odds are, it's me! :laugh: Last time I competed in an all-champion type event, it was the Royal Invitational in 2008 and I got it handed to me and got DAL pork! :doh:

Paola Greg
07-12-2010, 09:03 AM
The e-mail states they are inviting the Top 30 teams in KCBS ToY as of 07/09/10



The email I received from the KCBS office on July 6th stated
"Greg- The top 50 teams in the KCBS Points Chase as of June 30th, 2010 will be invited. The information should be coming out tomorrow (it was originally coming out today, but we needed to get a final approval from the club) via e-mail. Let me know if you have any other questions!"

I wonder why the number of teams and dates changed?

Jeff_in_KC
07-12-2010, 10:49 AM
Just asked a non-related question of KCBS via email and included in that conversation was this contest. As of this morning, they have 21 teams signed up and four spots left.

Scottie
07-12-2010, 11:39 AM
The email I received from the KCBS office on July 6th stated
"Greg- The top 50 teams in the KCBS Points Chase as of June 30th, 2010 will be invited. The information should be coming out tomorrow (it was originally coming out today, but we needed to get a final approval from the club) via e-mail. Let me know if you have any other questions!"

I wonder why the number of teams and dates changed?



Greg, let's face it. This system is old and outdated for KCBS and for them to track the TOY standings. It's all done by hand. So how accurate is the info? They can only get the top 25 teams on their website... They have had problems in the past with scoring and tallying the points... what is different now? All of a sudden it is a tried and true system, with no errors?/// just saying...

Congrats to all that will be going...

DawgPhan
07-12-2010, 11:52 AM
Greg, let's face it. This system is old and outdated for KCBS and for them to track the TOY standings. It's all done by hand. So how accurate is the info? They can only get the top 25 teams on their website... They have had problems in the past with scoring and tallying the points... what is different now? All of a sudden it is a tried and true system, with no errors?/// just saying...

Congrats to all that will be going...


They should just let Paul at the Pickled Pig handle it. They have shown since the start of the new system that they dont have the experience or expertise to handle the points system. They also havent been able to hire anyone to do it..seems like with all this cash coming in they could be paying Paul to manage their points. He knows what he is doing and how to do it.

ThomEmery
07-12-2010, 12:30 PM
Yes just sub it out
The traffic it would drive would cover a nice compensation to Paul

Scottie
07-12-2010, 12:42 PM
They should just let Paul at the Pickled Pig handle it. They have shown since the start of the new system that they dont have the experience or expertise to handle the points system. They also havent been able to hire anyone to do it..seems like with all this cash coming in they could be paying Paul to manage their points. He knows what he is doing and how to do it.


They tried to do this 3 years ago.. (or there abouts). KCBS (or BOD) said it was too expensive... I mean, couldn't they get Sam's Club to cover that nut? Or Kingsford? They have their name stamped all over TOY and Sam's Club Invitational.. To me, it would seem like a natural. Especially if they want scores that are not subject to audit, because a score or two were missed. Would those 2 big corps like to have their name associated to it, if it turned in to a fiasco like it did a few years ago for Jumpin' Jim?

But then again, I was the idiot that said that KCBS should get a sponsor for their turn-in clamshells that all matched and had a sponsor (think Hooter's clamshells) to cover it.

But what do I know.

DawgPhan
07-12-2010, 01:06 PM
They tried to do this 3 years ago.. (or there abouts). KCBS (or BOD) said it was too expensive... I mean, couldn't they get Sam's Club to cover that nut? Or Kingsford? They have their name stamped all over TOY and Sam's Club Invitational.. To me, it would seem like a natural. Especially if they want scores that are not subject to audit, because a score or two were missed. Would those 2 big corps like to have their name associated to it, if it turned in to a fiasco like it did a few years ago for Jumpin' Jim?

But then again, I was the idiot that said that KCBS should get a sponsor for their turn-in clamshells that all matched and had a sponsor (think Hooter's clamshells) to cover it.

But what do I know.

Agree on the clamshell sponsor. Crazy to have different boxes each week.

anyway...if I can pull the results from PNWBA, FBA, GBA, MBN, and KCBS and get it all done without getting a single penny from anyone to help with the costs I am sure they can afford it. I have spent nothing by my own money to make the National BBQ Rankings happen. I put my own time in, spend my own money and happily do it because it needs to be done.

I dont know if Paul is making money with his rankings, but he probably isnt getting rich from it if he is getting some ad dollars coming in. So if 2 hobbyist can get it done with no budget, I would think that KCBS should be able to swing it.

Granted there are some mistakes in my results, but I make every effort to make sure it is as correct as possible. One thing that really helps is that teams review their results and send me an email when something is wrong so I can change it. KCBS doesnt even allow that much.

Plowboy
07-12-2010, 01:12 PM
Agree on the clamshell sponsor. Crazy to have different boxes each week.

anyway...if I can pull the results from PNWBA, FBA, GBA, MBN, and KCBS and get it all done without getting a single penny from anyone to help with the costs I am sure they can afford it. I have spent nothing by my own money to make the National BBQ Rankings happen. I put my own time in, spend my own money and happily do it because it needs to be done.

I dont know if Paul is making money with his rankings, but he probably isnt getting rich from it if he is getting some ad dollars coming in. So if 2 hobbyist can get it done with no budget, I would think that KCBS should be able to swing it.

Granted there are some mistakes in my results, but I make every effort to make sure it is as correct as possible. One thing that really helps is that teams review their results and send me an email when something is wrong so I can change it. KCBS doesnt even allow that much.

Not to get too far off topic, but I love your site. Thank you for all that you do for us.

Diva
07-12-2010, 01:51 PM
Greg, let's face it. This system is old and outdated for KCBS and for them to track the TOY standings. It's all done by hand. So how accurate is the info? They can only get the top 25 teams on their website... They have had problems in the past with scoring and tallying the points... what is different now? All of a sudden it is a tried and true system, with no errors?/// just saying...

Congrats to all that will be going...

A group of us at the Weston contest had this conversation this past weekend. We came to the conclusion that KCBS has more than the top 25, they simply don't post it farther than 25th.

DawgPhan
07-12-2010, 01:51 PM
thanks for the kind words and I didn't mean for my previous post to sound all whiny about the money. Re-reading it, it comes off as a little whiny and that wasnt the point. KCBS could afford if they wanted it was the point.

Plowboy
07-12-2010, 02:00 PM
A group of us at the Weston contest had this conversation this past weekend. We came to the conclusion that KCBS has more than the top 25, they simply don't post it farther than 25th.

Cause anyone who is 26 and down doesn't care to know about how they place. :crazy:

Vince RnQ
07-12-2010, 02:52 PM
Congrats to all the qualifiers! We know who I will be rooting for!
is there a breakdown on the award money?


According to the entry form, payouts are as follows:

Overall
GC - $5,000
RGC - $3,000
3rd - $2,000
4th - $1,500
5th - $750

Each Category
1st - $1,000
2nd - $750
3rd - $500
4th - $250
5th - $200
6th thru 10th - $100

Scottie
07-12-2010, 03:01 PM
A group of us at the Weston contest had this conversation this past weekend. We came to the conclusion that KCBS has more than the top 25, they simply don't post it farther than 25th.


If they do, then they need to get it on their website. Especially if they are selling that this contest is for the top 50 teams.

FWIW I did request the list from KCBGS this morning and haven't received it yet. I just wanted to see how accurate it was to Paul's site...

Plowboy
07-12-2010, 03:05 PM
If they do, then they need to get it on their website. Especially if they are selling that this contest is for the top 50 teams.

FWIW I did request the list from KCBGS this morning and haven't received it yet. I just wanted to see how accurate it was to Paul's site...

Haven't seen anything official, but folks here are saying that it is inclusive to the top 30 teams.

Vince RnQ
07-12-2010, 03:06 PM
For the sake of information accuracy, the Top 30 teams as of 7/9/10 were issued invitations, not the Top 50.

Scottie
07-12-2010, 03:21 PM
Top 30 or 50 doesn't really make a difference, as they only list it through 25. But thanks for the info. don't want bad info.

I think my concern when I heard this last weekend. If a team was at Shannon, which historically has terrible phone/email reception. And they were not one of the first 25 to respond to the email. (Yes, usually the top 25 teams go out competing every weekend.) They would of missed the email and not be included? Why not send it out on a Monday, before teams are out of town or traveling?

It just seems rushed to me.

Vince RnQ
07-12-2010, 04:24 PM
With the e-mail having gone out on Friday, I would have given the Top 25 teams until this Wednesday to enter and then opened it up to the remaining 5 teams...but that's just me.

Scottie
07-12-2010, 05:06 PM
I agree Vince. I'd be pissed if I missed out because try send it on a Friday and I am actually out supporting a KCBS contest.... Because I don't have a Smart Phone at a contest......

Again, this was rushed and not properly thought out.

Ford
07-12-2010, 05:25 PM
I'm guessing with all these posts the BOD may be talking about it on Wednesdy. Anybody listening to the meeting? I am.

ThomEmery
07-12-2010, 05:33 PM
I signed up also

Plowboy
07-12-2010, 05:56 PM
With the e-mail having gone out on Friday, I would have given the Top 25 teams until this Wednesday to enter and then opened it up to the remaining 5 teams...but that's just me.

I'd also hope that if they are shooting for a number like 30, that they'd move down the list until they got 30 confirmed teams. I'm going to guess on short notice that closer to 20 of the 30 are going to be able or willing to sign up.

Plowboy
07-12-2010, 05:58 PM
I don't see anything on KCBS site about this. Am I just missing it?

Vince RnQ
07-12-2010, 06:12 PM
Jeff in KC said in post #67 above that as of this morning, (Monday, July 12), 21 teams had already signed up.

HoDeDo
07-12-2010, 06:59 PM
It appears to be out there now... I didnt think they put the invitationals in the list... (like GAB for example) oh well!

I just think it is great that someone is actually making an effort to to do something in competitive BBQ -- even if it isnt the best execution (lots of arguements in the thread for how it could be done)... I'm just glad it is happening. Whether I am 55th or 25th, It gives you something to look forward to.

Plowboy
07-12-2010, 08:14 PM
What is the entry fee?

Scottie
07-12-2010, 08:27 PM
I do agree with that Andy.

I also asked and still Have not received the list. Would of figured it would have been splashed all over the website. Or one of those splash emails that KCBS likes to send out, or should I say MMA! They seem to work well for selling t-shirts, et al.

Butcher BBQ
07-12-2010, 08:29 PM
What is the entry fee?

For a 20 x 30 its $150.00 and 20 x 40 its $175.00.

Plowboy
07-12-2010, 08:34 PM
For a 20 x 30 its $150.00 and 20 x 40 its $175.00.

Dang. That's nice!

Vince RnQ
07-12-2010, 09:39 PM
Dang. That's nice!

I thought so too!

We're really looking forward to this contest!

Finney
07-12-2010, 09:49 PM
Or one of those splash emails that KCBS likes to send out, or should I say MMA!

I don't think I've ever received one of those. :roll:
But I get the one every year saying it's time to renew my membership. :doh:

Jeff_in_KC
07-12-2010, 11:33 PM
For a 20 x 30 its $150.00 and 20 x 40 its $175.00.

Because the Sam's folks don't currently have enough money! :laugh: I thought invitationals were supposed to be free? :confused:

I feel bad knowing there are a LOT of really great teams out there who won't be at this thing but I'm extremely honored to be competing with this list of folks who I probably have no business being listed with in the first place. :icon_blush: Tammy and I are looking forward to it!

Plowboy
07-12-2010, 11:37 PM
Because the Sam's folks don't currently have enough money! :laugh: I thought invitationals were supposed to be free?

I believe the Best of the Best invitational is $400.

Jeff_in_KC
07-13-2010, 12:17 AM
I believe the Best of the Best invitational is $400.

And then there's a perfectly good reason why I wouldn't have known that! :grin:

ThomEmery
07-13-2010, 02:13 AM
And then there's a perfectly good reason why I wouldn't have known that! :grin:


Good one Jeff :)

Scottie
07-13-2010, 08:34 AM
I don't see anything on KCBS site about this. Am I just missing it?

This is the response I received from the KCBS office for a copy of the list.... It's starting to sound like KCBS crap all over again. Would love to hear from a BOD member why this is so secret? Afraid of an audit from team #31?


Scottie-
No, we are not planning to publish the teams that were invited to the Sam's Club Invitational BBQ Bash. Sorry!

Kelly Cain


On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:30 AM, Johnson, R.K. Scott <SJohnson@ngelaw.com (SJohnson@ngelaw.com)> wrote:

Really? It's a secret list?





We are planning to publish the teams that have registered when we reach the 25 teams. Does that help?

Kelly Cain

Plowboy
07-13-2010, 09:18 AM
And then there's a perfectly good reason why I wouldn't have known that! :grin:

Funny.

Plowboy
07-13-2010, 09:19 AM
This is the response I received from the KCBS office for a copy of the list.... It's starting to sound like KCBS crap all over again. Would love to hear from a BOD member why this is so secret? Afraid of an audit from team #31?


Scottie-
No, we are not planning to publish the teams that were invited to the Sam's Club Invitational BBQ Bash. Sorry!

Kelly Cain


On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:30 AM, Johnson, R.K. Scott <SJohnson@ngelaw.com (SJohnson@ngelaw.com)> wrote:
Really? It's a secret list?




We are planning to publish the teams that have registered when we reach the 25 teams. Does that help?

Kelly Cain

Teams lists are on a "need to know" basis. :hand: Apparently, you don't need to know.

Scottie
07-13-2010, 09:25 AM
That's obvious todd. But as a KCBS member in good standing. I believe that this information should be provided to all members and once again, not to this exclusive club that got a invite....

Plowboy
07-13-2010, 09:26 AM
Well, it does sound like from Kelly's last comment that they are going to fill the field. That's good.

Scottie
07-13-2010, 10:52 AM
It would be a bad thing if they only had 17 or 18 teams vying for the Sam's Club Invitational...

Plowboy
07-13-2010, 10:59 AM
Anyone know why this needed to be an invitational from Sam's perspective? I'm all for the contest. Just curious why Sam's Club wanted it to be exclusive. A guess is that they wanted to market their club to the teams that competed in more than a handful of contests each year. A top 30 or whatever would be a way to do that.

DawgPhan
07-13-2010, 11:05 AM
agree that another $25k payout contest is never going to be a bad thing regardless of who gets to go.

Scottie
07-13-2010, 11:37 AM
See Todd, I would think it would be the other way from Sam's Club perspective. If they wanted to get more folks buying from Sam's Club.. Do you market to 25 teams or the 11,000 members of KCBS? Now I only had a few marketing classes in college. But that question seems pretty easy from my uneducated opinion.

and after listening to the podcasts. They couldn't get any answers for this whole thing anyway. I was getting that it was a secret MMA deal... But then again, I don't get to base that on executive sessions either. But usually I am a pretty good read on this stuff. Which of course means nothing, except in my own convoluted brain... :mmph:

Does anyone know if KCBS runs totals for teams and contests. Like the percentage of teams that cook over 25 contests a year. Or teams that cook less than 5. Less than 10, et al.?

ique
07-13-2010, 11:42 AM
Anyone know why this needed to be an invitational from Sam's perspective? I'm all for the contest. Just curious why Sam's Club wanted it to be exclusive.

Havent followed the whole thread but I'm sure its just part of the plan when they decided to sponsor the KCBS TOY. We'll sponsor the team of the year and have a contest with those teams...

Plowboy
07-13-2010, 01:25 PM
Havent followed the whole thread but I'm sure its just part of the plan when they decided to sponsor the KCBS TOY. We'll sponsor the team of the year and have a contest with those teams...

THAT makes a lot of sense. Thank's Chris. From that perspective, contests like this gives more insentive for teams in the TOY process. I like it.

The Pickled Pig
07-13-2010, 01:25 PM
Does anyone know if KCBS runs totals for teams and contests. Like the percentage of teams that cook over 25 contests a year. Or teams that cook less than 5. Less than 10, et al.?

I don't know if anyone else compiles that information but I do. :-D

Scottie
07-13-2010, 01:51 PM
I don't know if anyone else compiles that information but I do. :-D


d'oh.. I should of went to 'the source' right away. I'll have to do a little digging on your site.

Thanks Paul.

KC_Bobby
07-13-2010, 02:12 PM
Paul, is your site still including all comps for the year or is it set up where it only provides points for each teams top 10 competitions?

Plowboy
07-13-2010, 02:32 PM
Paul, is your site still including all comps for the year or is it set up where it only provides points for each teams top 10 competitions?

Paul shows all contests, but then for the KCBS rankings, it only counts the top 10 finishes. Seems so easy, right? :thumb:

The Pickled Pig
07-13-2010, 03:06 PM
Paul, is your site still including all comps for the year or is it set up where it only provides points for each teams top 10 competitions?


I am tracking all teams from all KCBS Open comps.

My own power ranking include all comps a team does. The KCBS TOY approximation only adds thee points from a teams best 10 contests but you can click on the team name and see all of the results and which ones are included in the scoring.

The Pickled Pig
07-13-2010, 03:07 PM
d'oh.. I should of went to 'the source' right away. I'll have to do a little digging on your site.

Thanks Paul.

I don't have that info published yet but I do have it compiled.

Jeff_in_KC
07-13-2010, 05:04 PM
Hey Paul, your site is awesome but I noticed one thing that sticks out... you have Bub-Ba-Q way off from what KCBS has that team. Any idea why? Just curious.

Diva
07-13-2010, 07:11 PM
<p>It is what it is. Just like the Jack Invite and the Royal invite and The Best of the Best invite. BOTB is the best example. They invite the top ten teams from each sanctioning body. Don't recall anybody freakin' out about that when it started....</p>

EDIT: These are my thoughts whether we were 'in' or not, by the way.

Funtimebbq
07-13-2010, 09:31 PM
That's obvious todd. But as a KCBS member in good standing. I believe that this information should be provided to all members and once again, not to this exclusive club that got a invite....

Now that is a campaign slogan if I have ever heard one. Scottie for BOD. After all, with all the ideas he has to fix things, he should be running.

Benny

The Pickled Pig
07-13-2010, 09:37 PM
I don't have that info published yet but I do have it compiled.

The data below is from 2009.

# Contests Completed_____# Teams_____% of Total
1-5________________________4237___________89.86%
6-10_______________________346____________7.34%
11-15______________________ 83____________ 1.76%
16-20______________________ 29____________ 0.62%
21-25______________________ 10____________ 0.21%
26-30______________________ 9_____________ 0.19%
30+________________________ 1_____________ 0.02%

Total Teams = 4715

The Pickled Pig
07-13-2010, 09:46 PM
Hey Paul, your site is awesome but I noticed one thing that sticks out... you have Bub-Ba-Q way off from what KCBS has that team. Any idea why? Just curious.


Naming variations. The only thing I have to key off of is the team name as listed in the results. Reps do not enter team names consistently from contest to contest. I catch most of the errors by manually scrubbing but sometimes I am unsure if it is the same team. I suspect that some of the contests from following teams on my site are from the same team:

http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/KCBSTOYTeamHist.cfm?team=BUB%20BA%20Q
http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/KCBSTOYTeamHist.cfm?team=BUBBA%20Q
But unless someone tells me there is a problem (and hopefully the solution), I have no way of knowing. And because we have a number of teams competing under the exact same name or very similar names, it can be hard to keep their ranking identities separate. It is an imperfect system at best.

Diva
07-13-2010, 09:56 PM
That's obvious todd. But as a KCBS member in good standing. I believe that this information should be provided to all members and once again, not to this exclusive club that got a invite....

If it makes you feel any better....within the invitation letter there wasn't a list of whom the invites were sent. So, this invitee knows exactly what you know.

Jeff_in_KC
07-14-2010, 12:48 AM
Naming variations. The only thing I have to key off of is the team name as listed in the results. Reps do not enter team names consistently from contest to contest. I catch most of the errors by manually scrubbing but sometimes I am unsure if it is the same team. I suspect that some of the contests from following teams on my site are from the same team:

http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/KCBSTOYTeamHist.cfm?team=BUB%20BA%20Q
http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/KCBSTOYTeamHist.cfm?team=BUBBA%20Q
But unless someone tells me there is a problem (and hopefully the solution), I have no way of knowing. And because we have a number of teams competing under the exact same name or very similar names, it can be hard to keep their ranking identities separate. It is an imperfect system at best.

I've visited their Web site in the past and recall the schedule somewhat. I believe that all of those on both links are the same team from my recollection of the Web site. Still, fantastic job, Paul! It always amazes me that a single person can do all of this yet KCBS cannot.

Vince RnQ
07-14-2010, 12:54 AM
The data below is from 2009.

# Contests Completed_____# Teams_____% of Total
1-5________________________4237___________89.86%
6-10_______________________346____________7.34%
11-15______________________ 83____________ 1.76%
16-20______________________ 29____________ 0.62%
21-25______________________ 10____________ 0.21%
26-30______________________ 9_____________ 0.19%
30+________________________ 1_____________ 0.02%

Total Teams = 4715

According to this information, 97.2% of all the teams who competed last year did 10 or fewer KCBS contests. I find it amazing that our team falls into that remaining 2.8%.

Paola Greg
07-14-2010, 07:33 AM
This is the response I received from the KCBS office for a copy of the list.... It's starting to sound like KCBS crap all over again. Would love to hear from a BOD member why this is so secret? Afraid of an audit from team #31?


Scottie-
No, we are not planning to publish the teams that were invited to the Sam's Club Invitational BBQ Bash. Sorry!

Kelly Cain


On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:30 AM, Johnson, R.K. Scott <SJohnson@ngelaw.com (SJohnson@ngelaw.com)> wrote:
Really? It's a secret list?




We are planning to publish the teams that have registered when we reach the 25 teams. Does that help?

Kelly Cain

Looks like the Board is going to discuss it tonight. Here is the item as listed on the agenda....;
Working with KCBS office and Samís Club on the MidWest City BBQ Bash, the first on-site event at a Samís Club (Aug 20/21). This will be an invitational to the top 50 teams as of June 30, 2010; but only the first 25 to enter and pay are going to be accepted.

ThomEmery
07-14-2010, 07:44 AM
Got my "listen in" request submitted

DawgPhan
07-14-2010, 07:59 AM
Naming variations. The only thing I have to key off of is the team name as listed in the results. Reps do not enter team names consistently from contest to contest. I catch most of the errors by manually scrubbing but sometimes I am unsure if it is the same team. I suspect that some of the contests from following teams on my site are from the same team:

http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/KCBSTOYTeamHist.cfm?team=BUB%20BA%20Q
http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/KCBSTOYTeamHist.cfm?team=BUBBA%20Q

But unless someone tells me there is a problem (and hopefully the solution), I have no way of knowing. And because we have a number of teams competing under the exact same name or very similar names, it can be hard to keep their ranking identities separate. It is an imperfect system at best.


The thing that is annoying the fire out of me right now is the reps removing the spaces from the names because, I presume, that in the scoring software there is a limit on the number of characters in a name. I would be much happier if they would just put as much as possible with the spaces. It makes it much easier to match.

Oh and I agree about the names and now there is a Bubba-Q and a Bub-Ba-Q competing, as well as 2 Whiskey Bent BBQ and several other teams that have the same name.

is there a rankings guy support group?

KC_Bobby
07-14-2010, 08:57 AM
According to this information, 97.2% of all the teams who competed last year did 10 or fewer KCBS contests. I find it amazing that our team falls into that remaining 2.8%.

Less than 3% of teams competed over 10 times? I was really shocked that only 49 teams competed over 15 times. I think many of us could name a majority of them by first name without looking at the list.

Paul, can you give us the count on teams that competed exactly 10 times? Curious to know how many teams competed enough to fill their point allotment for team of the year. Of the 4715, we know it's 132 plus those in the 5-10 range who competed 10 times.

Scottie
07-14-2010, 09:18 AM
Sorry, I guess I am not allowed to have an opinion or an actual thought either....



Now that is a campaign slogan if I have ever heard one. Scottie for BOD. After all, with all the ideas he has to fix things, he should be running.

Benny

Jorge
07-14-2010, 09:30 AM
Sorry, I guess I am not allowed to have an opinion or an actual thought either....


I did like the part about you running for the BoD:becky: Scottie for President!:becky::twisted:

Plowboy
07-14-2010, 09:50 AM
I did like the part about you running for the BoD:becky: Scottie for President!:becky::twisted:

Oh, it is now funny when the shoe is on the other foot, eh? :boxing:

Scottie
07-14-2010, 10:07 AM
I did like the part about you running for the BoD:becky: Scottie for President!:becky::twisted:


:cop: I don't think you can run if you happen to let your KCBS membership laspe for a few months... Could you? Especially if your membership is due in December? :twisted:

Jorge
07-14-2010, 10:09 AM
:cop: I don't think you can run if you happen to let your KCBS membership laspe for a few months... Could you? Especially if your membership is due in December? :twisted:

As an early Christmas gift, I'll renew it for you. I'm trying to be more of a giver:twisted: I'll take care of that as soon as I send some email to the nominating committee chair in the land of lobstah.

Scottie
07-14-2010, 10:21 AM
Careful... I'll submit your name to the nominating committee that Todd and I have... :becky:


OK, back on topic and I realize that. The less than 3% is sorta shocking to me. I think my request is even more magnified now. that this is for such a small percentage of cooking teams for KCBS. I guess I never realized there was such a huge disparity.

Although, I still don't think they should lower the team of the year for 10 contests... But they might have to give a little recognition to those teams with less than 10 contests a year for individual categories.

sorry, that was another idea and I am going to crawl back to my corner now.

Jeff_in_KC
07-14-2010, 05:36 PM
I need to make a clarification on something I said earlier about why Paul can do what he does as one person when KCBS cannot when it comes to rankings. That statement could have been viewed as a slam against the person in the KCBS office who handles the rankings weekly and in fact I know it was viewed that way by at least one person. It was NOT meant in that manner but was rather meant to point out that somehow, the sanctioning body itself should have the technological capabilities to do the same. I, for one, appreciate everything the ladies in the KCBS office do to make things easier and better for us and I would not ever knock the job any of them do. Dawn has a responsibility to tabulate rankings every week and to verify that all teams listed in those rankings are in fact KCBS members, that their memberships have not expired and matching up various spellings of team names as they are entered in by the reps. Knowing that, I don't know how she gets the top 25 verified weekly, let alone ALL teams competing. Understanding that, I think she goes above and beyond to keep up with it all, especially as we get later in the year and more teams are competing. My apologies to anyone who took my post to mean anything different!

Scottie
07-14-2010, 06:46 PM
I agree Jeff. What Dawn does is a yeoman's job. I got to be part of the testing of their system and I know the amount of effort it takes. I also agree that they could also update any programming issues that makes this not an easy task. I still don't know why we can't see all stats, especially of they are all accumulated. Getting back to one of my points.. I just feel it's something we should expect from KCBS, instead of having to go to Paul's awesome site.

The Pickled Pig
07-14-2010, 10:13 PM
Paul, can you give us the count on teams that competed exactly 10 times? Curious to know how many teams competed enough to fill their point allotment for team of the year. Of the 4715, we know it's 132 plus those in the 5-10 range who competed 10 times.

There were 32 teams that competed in exactly 10 open contests last. year.

See the attached pdf for a complete breakdown by number of contests.

HoDeDo
07-14-2010, 10:36 PM
Guys - I guess I dont get all the hub-bub. Sams club can choose to have a contest with any perameters they want... They can also ask that KCBS act as the rules body for it, even if it is not a sanctioned points event. Sam's is a sponsor for ToY.... so they choose to offer the top 30 teams in the ToY race, a chance to compete in a 25 team contest. Seem to make sense for the named ToY sponsor to do something involving the ToY for thier own marketing devices....

The Best of the Best has thier own criteria... and they are not a qualifer or points event either... but no one complains about thier criteria for thier invitational... That is the point of it being an invitational, right?

I think it is great that Sam's is stepping up with some $$ to host an event for teams in ToY race... that they happen to be the named sponsor for.

Look at the ABA stuff.... Those bass guys have separate shootouts etc, run by the sponsors, that are not part of the ABA -- but do play into the excitement, and are a marketing tool for the sponsor.

This is a marketing tool by a sponsor. I would like to see more of them. Normally I am all for the conspiracy therory conjecture, but I think there is some overthinking going on here.

I do agree that folks are welcome to not like the criteria -- but it is an invitational so folks can use whatever criteria they want. I mean, look at butt to butt and chest to chest... they definately have thier own criteria, and are subject to organizer discression.
I dont see folks making a stink about those invitationals either...

Let's take a step back and look at this for what it is... just another invitational.

Also, I do think it is interesting to see the stats on teams that cook over 10 events.... but maybe this is also to help drive a new behavior; that being to drive folks to cook more, if they know they have a summer invitational that has nice money attached to it.

GAB Invitational Spring, ToY invitational summer, Royal Iniviational fall.... hmmm.... filling in the rest of the seasons :) ok, thats my .02... back to the regularly scheduled programming. And even though I disagree with Scottie on this topic, he would still have my whole-hearted vote for BoD! Go Scottie :) (ok, off to my room now)

Plowboy
07-14-2010, 11:56 PM
Andy - You make so much sense, I'm nominating you for BOD. Bravo.

Smokedelic
07-15-2010, 12:19 AM
Great points Andy.

I think one of the differences between this contest and the ones you mentioned is that the criteria(who and how many were being invited, the cut-off date for points, etc.) for this one changed at least once after the contest was announced. Does that mean that it wasn't very well thought out from the git-go, or was it changed for another reason? Did Sam's Club really care which teams got invited and which 25 teams got in, or was someone else drivng that nail?

The fact that KCBS won't release a list of teams that met the criteria and were invited also differs from some of the contests you mentioned. I don't think there'd be nearly as much concern about this deal if there was a little more transparency in the process.

...but that's just me.

Vince RnQ
07-15-2010, 06:15 AM
Paul hasn't completed his update from the contests taking place over the weekend of July 9-11 so the KCBS ToY page still shows the standings after the July 2-3 weekend. Based upon that, the following teams comprised the Top 30 at the time the invitations were sent:

1 - QUAU
2 - Parrothead Smokers
3 - Pellet Envy
4 - Munchin' Hogs at the Hilton
5 - Big Creek BBQ
6 - Buffalo's BBQ
7 - KC Can Crew
8 - Four Legs Up BBQ
9 - Butcher BBQ
10 - Little Pig Town BBQ
11 - Slap Yo Daddy BBQ
12 - The Slabs.com
13 - Rhythm 'n QUE
14 - The Long Dawgs
15 - Big Tz Q Cru
16 - Lotta Bull BBQ
17 - Twin Oaks Smokin' Crew
18 - Swiggin Pig
19 - Chix, Swine and Bovine BBQ
20 - Smoke On Wheels
21 - Gillys Barnstormin BBQ
22 - Smokin Triggers
23 - Team Top Chick
24 - Uncle Chets BBQ
25 - Smelly Butts BBQ
26 - South Pork
27 - Florida Skin and Bones
28 - Iowa Smokey D's
29 - Bub-Ba-Q
30 - Learn2Q.com

Now I know that Bub-Ba-Q was listed on the KCBS list as being in 12th Place but, as Paul mentioned earlier in the thread, there has been some name confusion regarding that team in the way the reps have been listing their name so they appear in 29th Place in the list above. Regardless, they're still in the Top 30 so the list is probably pretty accurate.

Now, what I'd be interested to know is which of those teams are in the field of 25?!?

Scottie
07-15-2010, 07:49 AM
GAB Invitational Spring, ToY invitational summer, Royal Iniviational fall.... hmmm.... filling in the rest of the seasons :) ok, thats my .02... back to the regularly scheduled programming. And even though I disagree with Scottie on this topic, he would still have my whole-hearted vote for BoD! Go Scottie :) (ok, off to my room now)


Absolutely Andy. Everyone has opinions. Mine is I don't get why this is so secret. I think the membership should know... If other don't agree, that's cool. It's not like I disagree with the contest or who is invited. Sam's can do and or ask KCBS to do whatever they want. I also have an opinion on me and the BOD. My opinion is you would make a much better candidate and I am sure I could get you all the support you wanted. I have lots of friends out in the NE for your support!!! :twisted:

Jeff_in_KC
07-15-2010, 07:59 AM
Why is it such a big deal that they aren't releasing team names? Most contests don't tell you who all is there beforehand.

Jorge
07-15-2010, 08:15 AM
Why is it such a big deal that they aren't releasing team names? Most contests don't tell you who all is there beforehand.

I can't speak for Scottie, but I think his point is about eliminating any potential appearance of impropriety.

If a team is in the top 30, or 50 depending on which # was chosen to send invitations to, and they didn't get their invite they have no way of knowing where they stand on TOY points if they aren't in the top 25 according to KCBS. I like Pauls site, and the job he does! At the end of the day, though, KCBS is using their own list.

I don't really have a problem with this contest based on what I KNOW. I just think a better job could have been done in announcing the event, and providing information to the membership. I don't know where that $25k is coming from. I think Scottie has raised a fair point about making the list of teams invited public, whether it's by publishing the list or making the TOY standings much more inclusive than the top 25. I'm sure things will be smoother, if there is a future event.

Scottie
07-15-2010, 08:21 AM
Another thing to think of.. Who is the organizer? If it's KCBS, even more reason to keep it transparent...

DawgPhan
07-15-2010, 08:45 AM
Clearly Sams can have whatever rules they want, they can invite who they want and pay what they want. No problems with that. I think that the problem for a lot of people is that when KCBS and money is involved it would appear that everything is poorly thought out and the end result is that the same very small(thanks to paul we now know that percentage to be less than 5%) group of teams is the beneficiary. Add in the last minute nature, the secretive selection process, the inability to audit their list, and the fact that it is limited means that it looks even more like they are driving new funds to a select set of teams.

How big would this contest of been if it had been announced at the banquet and they said we are going to invite the top 30 teams based on Team of the Year rankings. You would have had people reworking their schedule to get in their 10 contests before the break, we could of had the excitement of the end of the year in the middle and then again at the end.

But they didnt. They did it like this.

Alexa RnQ
07-15-2010, 08:46 AM
Just a thought, but perhaps the list will be released once all the slots are filled?

I can think of at least one mega-contest last year where team names were not released in advance.

Alexa RnQ
07-15-2010, 08:48 AM
the end result is that the same very small(thanks to paul we now know that percentage to be less than 5%) group of teams is the beneficiary.
This is precisely the logic that some people have against the ToY process at all, and in saying that there should not be monetary reward for it at the end of the year.

Again, there are two different issues at work here -- "what KCBS should do" vs. "what Sam's Club can do with their contest". Perhaps KCBS involvement should have been restricted to sanctioning only, so that the difference could be clearly discerned.

Jorge
07-15-2010, 08:54 AM
Did anybody listen to the BoD meeting last night, and was there any info about this contest? I didn't have time to listen, but will be listening to the podcast when it's available.

DawgPhan
07-15-2010, 09:06 AM
This is precisely the logic that some people have against the ToY process at all, and in saying that there should not be monetary reward for it at the end of the year.

Again, there are two different issues at work here -- "what KCBS should do" vs. "what Sam's Club can do with their contest". Perhaps KCBS involvement should have been restricted to sanctioning only, so that the difference could be clearly discerned.

I dont have a problem with the ToY process and I dont have a problem having a monetary reward at the end. I think that it looks really tacky to not announce the prizes prior to the start of the season and certainly they should not be tacking on awards after the season is over. They need to get their act together w/r/t the transparency of the points, but I think everyone agrees on that one, especially if they are going to be giving out more than just a few hundred dollars. If $10k is on the line for ToY everyone needs to know where they stand the entire time.

I dont think that "what Sam's Club can do" is an issue. It is their contest they can do as they please. This isn't a Sam's Clubs issue, it is a KCBS issue. It would appear that Sam's Club didnt invite these teams, KCBS did. Kingsford is relying on KCBS to do their points, I dont think. And no one has an issue with how Kingsford does their chase even though clearly that is just more money driven to a select few teams.

The best teams deserve the most money. That isnt that hard to understand. But this contest doesnt happen in a vacuum and recently it would seem that every single major monetary benefit that has been introduced or talked about has been geared towards rewarding the same pool of folks. I think that folks are just thinking that a few crumbs might fall off the table to us low end teams every once and a while.

But if this contest had been announce 10 months ago and the ToY website was improved coming into this season, I dont think that there would be as many complaints about it.

ique
07-15-2010, 09:33 AM
Less than 3% of teams competed over 10 times? I was really shocked that only 49 teams competed over 15 times. I think many of us could name a majority of them by first name without looking at the list.

Paul, can you give us the count on teams that competed exactly 10 times? Curious to know how many teams competed enough to fill their point allotment for team of the year. Of the 4715, we know it's 132 plus those in the 5-10 range who competed 10 times.

Wow, I knew the 10 contest rule for KCBS TOY limited the pool of teams that could actually compete for the award but I wouldn't of guessed the number was so low. Its really a contest between the 140 teams that actually compete in 10 or more.

Rub
07-15-2010, 09:41 AM
Wow, I knew the 10 contest rule for KCBS TOY limited the pool of teams that could actually compete for the award but I wouldn't of guessed the number was so low. Its really a contest between the 140 teams that actually compete in 10 or more.
If that isn't incentive for teams to go out and cook some more, I don't know what is.

Scottie
07-15-2010, 09:49 AM
Wow, I knew the 10 contest rule for KCBS TOY limited the pool of teams that could actually compete for the award but I wouldn't of guessed the number was so low. Its really a contest between the 140 teams that actually compete in 10 or more.


You can narrow that down even more, as they drop the low scores you need to cook more than 10 contests. So if you have a crappy contest and only cooked 10, your score would count. If you cook 30+, you have more choices for your dropped scores.

Although you still have to cook good and score good to get to the top...

ique
07-15-2010, 09:54 AM
If that isn't incentive for teams to go out and cook some more, I don't know what is.

Yeah, I dont have the solution. But I know I would like to see many more teams 'in play'. Get more prize money involved and pay out the top ten teams and than maybe teams would try to cook more contests.

There are some teams that would be in the top 5 no matter what the rules are. I see other teams that are in the top rankings mostly because they just cook a lot of contests.

KC_Bobby
07-15-2010, 10:26 AM
At the same time, 2743 teams of the 4715 teams only came out to play once (58%) and 3884 (82%) of them cooked 3 or less comps. I think it's safe to assume those teams can/should understand it clearly takes more than that to be eligible for a national team of the year. For those who disagree, sorry but I think it's implied that a team must be out in the field to receive that honor. And I'm not implying that team of the year should be each team's top 4 scores either - I think it clearly takes more results than that.

Paul's graph shows us this insight:
# of teams that cooked 4+ times: 831 - 19.7% of this group cooked 10+ times (164 teams cooked 10+ open comps)
# of teams that cooked 5+ times: 612 - 26.7% of this group cooked 10+ times
# of teams that cooked 6+ times: 478 - 34.3% of this group cooked 10+ times
# of teams that cooked 7+ times: 356 - 46.1% of this group cooked 10+ times
# of teams that cooked 8+ times: 268 - 61.2% of this group cooked 10+ times
# of teams that cooked 9+ times: 215 - 76.2% of this group cooked 10+ times

Based on the graph/info, is 10 the right number? I don't know. I have some thoughts, but I don't feel strongly enough about them to share. Plus, even if the number were lowered to 7 or 8, I don't think it would change finishing order near the top much if at all.

BTW Paul, thanks for that graph - it really showed me more of the picture than what I realized.

Brew-B-Q
07-15-2010, 12:32 PM
From a guy that will likely do 8 contests this year, I don't think that should qualify. I did like when Paul's site would let you select the number of contests to include in power rankings, so you could see how you stack up against teams that only count the same number of contests you've cooked. For example, I've been 6th or higher in pork 3/4 contests this year. I can't really compare that to someone that has cooked 15 times, with their 5 worst being dropped.

I don't think they should drop scores and only take the top 10. It should be an average of your scores, regardless of whether you cook 10 times or 30 times. Do baseball pitchers get to drop bad games when compiling their ERA for the season? It just seems silly to me. After 10 cooks, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. There's no risk. And the argument that someone will compete 10 times, do well, and just sit back is bs too. If you're that good where you can win TOY by just cooking 10 times, meaning you don't have a bad contest, then that team is deserving.

This Is How We Que It
07-15-2010, 02:11 PM
When does The Pickled Pig update his power rankings?

Finney
07-15-2010, 02:54 PM
When does The Pickled Pig update his power rankings?

He does them as soon as he can after the weekend... But he has a 'real' job too. Sometimes it takes him a few days.

sizzlinbonesfan
07-15-2010, 03:01 PM
I've learned more on this thread about competition and points then any other one... thanks! And Paul's website... it's the bomb!! Paul... you do a terrific job!! :clap2:

Glad I'm just judging this one!!!

Happy BBQ'n
Alissa
Okie from Muskogee

The Pickled Pig
07-15-2010, 04:06 PM
I did like when Paul's site would let you select the number of contests to include in power rankings, so you could see how you stack up against teams that only count the same number of contests you've cooked.


Stay tuned...rankings by contest frequency feature coming soon (by end of August)

When does The Pickled Pig update his power rankings?

I'm behind a week and will update on Sunday night. Sorry for the delay.

crd26a
07-15-2010, 04:09 PM
I'm behind a week and will update on Sunday night. Sorry for the delay.

No reason to apologize Paul, the work you do for everyone involved in that is fantastic. Thanks for doing it all :clap2::clap2::clap2:

ThomEmery
07-15-2010, 04:41 PM
Did anybody listen to the BoD meeting last night, and was there any info about this contest? I didn't have time to listen, but will be listening to the podcast when it's available.

I listened but do not remember this being mentioned
Playing nice together seemed to be the primary topic :)

Brew-B-Q
07-15-2010, 04:42 PM
Stay tuned...rankings by contest frequency feature coming soon (by end of August)

That's awesome - looking forward to it!

Funtimebbq
07-15-2010, 07:37 PM
Sorry, I guess I am not allowed to have an opinion or an actual thought either....

Scottie,

I didn't mean to sound critical. I actually like many of your ideas. It is your ability to express those thoughts and more importantly, give some alternative (fix) for the existing problems that made me think of you for a BOD member. Many people complain but don't have a solution to solve the things they complain about. You offered solutions. That, to me, is what we members need in our BODs.

Benny

Plowboy
07-16-2010, 12:14 AM
Stay tuned...rankings by contest frequency feature coming soon (by end of August)



I'm behind a week and will update on Sunday night. Sorry for the delay.

You could just stay home from the contest this weekend and work on your website. Just saying.

The Pickled Pig
07-16-2010, 12:39 AM
You could just stay home from the contest this weekend and work on your website. Just saying.

My bags are packed and I'm ready for a guilt trip.:becky:

This Is How We Que It
07-18-2010, 05:34 AM
Stay tuned...rankings by contest frequency feature coming soon (by end of August)



I'm behind a week and will update on Sunday night. Sorry for the delay.


No problem, thanks for what you do.

Jorge
07-18-2010, 07:33 AM
You could just stay home from the contest this weekend and work on your website. Just saying.

Nostradamus mod!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Pickled Pig
07-25-2010, 09:59 PM
I don't have that info published yet but I do have it compiled.

I published a live table on the stats page (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/contesthub/conteststats.cfm). About half way down the page it's in a table called Team Contest Frequency and it shows the 2009 data, as well as 2009 and 2010 YTD data.

Ford
07-26-2010, 05:33 AM
So out of 4715 teams only 164 competed in 10 or more contests and only 26 competed in 20 or more. So realistically .55% (1 in 200) have a chance at TOY money and only 3.47 teams compete in the minimum number of contests to qualify.

Combine this with over 12000 KCBS members and only 26 have a realistic chance and that's just over 2 in 1000 members benefiting.

Now add in this invitational and look at all the money allocated directly by the KCBS to these teams. Makes one think about the KCBS priorities.

For the record last year I did less than 10 but this year will do 10 or maybe even a couple more.

Scottie
07-26-2010, 09:23 AM
This was one of my points Ford. I guess I never realized the huge disparity in the numbers. And yeah, I was one of those teams cooking over 20 contests a year.

All I know is the 2 top teams in KCBS aren't going to go to this event. That's a shame.

KC_Bobby
07-26-2010, 10:57 AM
Let's not forget that 2743 (58%) of the 4715 teams that have competed last year only did so once - hard to really even count that towards team of the year consideration. Ford lists 26 teams with a realistic chance, I'd move that up to 64 as I think one could realistically be in the run with 15. (Not disagreeing with Ford as the more a team does the better the chances). One thought about the 12K number thou - some teams have more than one active member so even if only benefiting one team, it could benefit multiple members.

I'd be happy to listen to some Team of the Year rule changes/suggestions as we are one of the teams that just aren't able to compete enough to realistically be in the run (and that's OK, but it sure would be fun to see how/where we rank using an average).

Recently I was talking to a team that said they had to do better than 5th in any comp to improve their standings which got me thinking three things:
1) Wow it's tough to get those last few points to move to the top
2) Teams can keep going and trying without penalty if they don't do well (other than time, effort and money)
3) They have to keep trying to improve to help them from getting passed by others

If I were to suggest a change in the formula :rolleyes::crazy:, I'd suggest the following (be prepared to get confused:doh:)
A) KCBS takes teams scores from a minimum set number of competitions (number varies year to year based on at least one-fifth of all teams that compete 2 or more times the previous year). So this year the number would have be 6 comps which would be 24% of all the teams that did 2+ comps [4715 total teams - 2743 1 comp teams = 1972 teams divide that by 5 and it would require at least 395 teams participate in that number of comps] (make sense?)

B) Each qualified team's final score would be determined by total points awarded divided by number of comps qualified. (ex = 1205 points/5 comps = 241 point avg or 2452 points/10 = 245.2 points - see below for more info)

C) Teams that compete in more than varying set number (6 in example shown) and are able to increase their end of season score/rankings by competing more often, but they also risk lowering their overall average. In order to not discourage teams from competing, only a percentage of the additional comps would be included in the season end score. (Percentage to be determined, I'd suggest 66.66% so 2/3s of all comps are counted. - Shouldn't the team of the year be determined by the team that more often than not does well?)

Example scenarios (based on last years numbers)
A team that competed 5 or less times would not qualify
A team that competed 6 times would use all their scores and divide by 6
A team that competed 7-10 times would use their top 6 scores and divide by 6
A team that competed 11-12 times would use their top 7 scores and divide by 7
A team that competed 13 times would use their top 8 scores and divide by 8
A team that competed 14 times would use their top 9 scores and divide by 9
A team that competed 15-16 times would use their top 10 scores and divide by 10
A team that competed 17-18 times would use their top 11 scores and divide by 11
A team that competed 19 times would use their top 12 scores and divide by 12
A team that competed 20 times would use their top 13 scores and divide by 13
A team that competed 21-22 times would use their top 14 scores and divide by 14
-etc

All that said, I still think the teams that are at the top with the current system will still be at the top with a system like the one I suggest above. But this type of change would get more teams involved in the running. And let teams see kinda how they stack up even if they are not really in the running

I understand it could be argued that some teams would cut back on a few comps - but it might also get some of the teams that do 5-10 a few more comps as you can see from the above that if the qualifying number of comps is 6, teams would be able to do 10 comps at the same risk as doing 6. Teams doing 11, might as well do 12 as it's not going to be a risk. etc. Of the 5-8 teams that cut back, 20-30 would possibly add.

:tape:

Finney
07-26-2010, 12:16 PM
That made my head hurt Bobby...

Ford
07-26-2010, 01:30 PM
I like it Bobby. You are correct that some teams have more than 1 member. And the ones doing 15 have a chance if they do great in at least 10 but it's a lot harder.

DawgPhan
07-26-2010, 01:52 PM
But KCBS can't manage the TOY system now and it is fairly simple. How are they going to manage a newer complicated system.

I think that KCBS should just announce a TOY schedule and prizes well before the first contest and allow teams to make some plans heading into the season. Make it 15-25 contests and count your best 10-15.

I think that Team of the Year should be the team with the most success during a year, not the team with the best average. Plus with a set schedule you create a BBQ "season" and you get a lot more head to head competition to help separate teams.

Jeff_in_KC
07-26-2010, 03:33 PM
Seriously? No Quau or Parrothead in Oklahoma???

Vince RnQ
07-26-2010, 03:40 PM
Something I think we all need to keep in mind is that Sam's Club coming on as the major national sponsor of KCBS ToY changes a lot of things and it takes time to get everything just right.

I would much rather see incremental improvement in an ongoing series of events rather than wait 6 to 12 months for things to be "perfect" only to learn that the perfect system needs changes and improvements too.

We were all rookie cooks and/or rookie judges and we learned as we went along, constantly trying to improve. We accepted our mistakes, made changes and went on to the next event. I believe we should give our sponsors the same kind of consideration that we gave ourselves.

Vince RnQ
07-26-2010, 03:44 PM
Seriously? No Quau or Parrothead in Oklahoma???


If they are not coming, I would imagine that it is because they are both chasing down #7 and didn't want to sacrifice a potential qualifying event for the invitational. I completely understand and respect that decision.

Jeff_in_KC
07-26-2010, 03:56 PM
If they are not coming, I would imagine that it is because they are both chasing down #7 and didn't want to sacrifice a potential qualifying event for the invitational. I completely understand and respect that decision.

That's true... in that case, it would have been a better deal if the Sam's Club event could have been in September instead.

Vince RnQ
07-26-2010, 04:11 PM
A good lesson for next season.

"Progress, not perfection."

Diva
07-26-2010, 04:25 PM
It's a shame how the fun is getting sucked out of it before it even happens.

Vince RnQ
07-26-2010, 04:27 PM
As I said before, we're thrilled at being invited to this shindig! It's going to be a great time!

KC_Bobby
07-26-2010, 05:01 PM
It's a shame how the fun is getting sucked out of it before it even happens.

I hope my post wasn't taken as a complaint about this competition or in general as that wasn't the intent. I like that Sam's is having a comp. My thoughts were just based on Paul's stats and possible ways to get more teams eligible for team of the year criteria.

Scottie
07-26-2010, 05:11 PM
If they are not coming, I would imagine that it is because they are both chasing down #7 and didn't want to sacrifice a potential qualifying event for the invitational. I completely understand and respect that decision.



Quau is an auto for DC. More than likely John is an auto for SD home state. .

Jeff_in_KC
07-26-2010, 05:22 PM
Quau is an auto for DC. More than likely John is an auto for SD home state. .


Wonder why the GAB isn't an auto. I'm just sayin'... :becky:

smknwhlswife
07-26-2010, 08:45 PM
We can't wait!! This will start a 4 wk run for us. OK City, Rosarito Mexico, Milwaukee WI, & Quincy IL.

Diva
07-26-2010, 11:54 PM
I hope my post wasn't taken as a complaint about this competition or in general as that wasn't the intent. I like that Sam's is having a comp. My thoughts were just based on Paul's stats and possible ways to get more teams eligible for team of the year criteria.

No, no, no.....just in 'general'. The statistics are what they are and that's fine. I don't see why people are getting in an uproar about this contest. It is what it is. Their contest, their rules, their playground, their money.

RobKC
07-27-2010, 06:55 AM
We have no dog in this hunt for this year, but I agree with Steph.

DawgPhan
07-27-2010, 07:48 AM
No, no, no.....just in 'general'. The statistics are what they are and that's fine. I don't see why people are getting in an uproar about this contest. It is what it is. Their contest, their rules, their playground, their money.


Just wonder where this "pro-organizer" sentiment was when it was Ron Cates.

After all it was his money, his contest, his rules, and his sponsors.

Just seems like it was their way or the highway when it was Ron Cates putting on a contest and now it is whatever the sponsor wants...I have a feeling that it has to do with the amount of money KCBS stands to gain from this deal. But again, I dont think that anyone has a problem with this contest, just that this contest is just another example of what a lot of people think is wrong with KCBS. This thread stopped being about this contests a long time ago.

ThomEmery
07-27-2010, 08:29 AM
Lots of great things coming to BBQ
Most probably will not be perfected day one
You know perfect like the State Championship system :)

crd26a
07-27-2010, 08:55 AM
Just wonder where this "pro-organizer" sentiment was when it was Ron Cates.

After all it was his money, his contest, his rules, and his sponsors.

Just seems like it was their way or the highway when it was Ron Cates putting on a contest and now it is whatever the sponsor wants...I have a feeling that it has to do with the amount of money KCBS stands to gain from this deal. But again, I dont think that anyone has a problem with this contest, just that this contest is just another example of what a lot of people think is wrong with KCBS. This thread stopped being about this contests a long time ago.

I'd disagree, I see this as two seperate beasts. With Ron, you have a private sponsor putting on a private tournament. With Sam's, you've got a KCBS Sponsor (where most of us are members) for our "Team of the Year" contest, the team that represents our "Best of the Best." As most of us know, on any given weekend, any of the top 50/100 teams could win a contest head to head.

I think the point that Bobby and others are trying to make is not that its not fair, but more, how can we give those cooks, who are legitimate good cooks, a chance at getting into the contest. This point I have to agree with, as not all of us can afford to take the time off / handle the cost to cook 20+ contests a year. Let alone 6 months into the year have 10 cooks in to be fully considered on the TOY scale. If they want to continue to have the TOY contest in the middle, then a sliding scale or a 7/1/09 to 6/30/10 etc. calendar should be used.

I don't think the discussion is taking away from the contest, all of us wish the teams that are able to compete in it the best of luck and hope they have a fantastic contest (I don't envy the August heat in Oklahoma to anyone). I think most of us are hoping that, given its our "Team of the Year" tournament, they look to see if the scoring system that penalizes teams for not having in a full 10+ contests within the first 6 months is reviewed, especially considering most of us didn't know this would even be an option of something to achieve for.

Scottie
07-27-2010, 09:21 AM
I don't think the discussion is taking away from the contest, all of us wish the teams that are able to compete in it the best of luck and hope they have a fantastic contest (I don't envy the August heat in Oklahoma to anyone). I think most of us are hoping that, given its our "Team of the Year" tournament, they look to see if the scoring system that penalizes teams for not having in a full 10+ contests within the first 6 months is reviewed, especially considering most of us didn't know this would even be an option of something to achieve for.


Agreed.

I don't think anyone is trying to take away from the contest. Honestly, this thread has opened my eyes. I guess I had blinkers on and didn't realize the huge disparity.

I wish all my friends luck at this contest and bring home the rewards...

KC_Bobby
07-27-2010, 09:38 AM
I think the point that Bobby and others are trying to make is not that its not fair, but more, how can we give those cooks, who are legitimate good cooks, a chance at getting into the contest. This point I have to agree with, as not all of us can afford to take the time off / handle the cost to cook 20+ contests a year.

Not exactly, but close to what I was trying to say.

I was not pinpointing entry into this specific contest, but a method to see how all teams that compete fairly/somewhat regularly stack up with those who do cook often at the end of the year and even have a glimmering hope to see a few of the teams that cook 8-14 times a year mixed in with some of the big dogs.

Again, the main players are still going to rise to the top. It's not the system that makes them good - they are good. But instead of only seeing 30 or so teams battle it out, it would allow 300-400 teams to feel like they are in the action.

Diva
07-27-2010, 10:49 AM
The list is up

http://kcbs.us/news.php?id=264

Scottie
07-27-2010, 11:41 AM
The list is up

http://kcbs.us/news.php?id=264


Lot of great teams on the list, mixed with some new teams.

should be a good comp... Assuming they get good judges... :twisted:

*** Just kidding on the judges...

Spydermike72
07-27-2010, 12:40 PM
That is quite the list of teams!! Wow, what a field!!

Alexa RnQ
07-27-2010, 01:06 PM
I'm tremendously excited. We don't often get to play with the cool kids unless they're coming out here at the end of the ToY year, so this is a big deal for us!

Finney
07-27-2010, 01:42 PM
I'm surprised that Learn2Q is on there. (not that he doesn't deserve it). When I talked to Troy last, he was still barely moving good after his bypass surgery. Guess he plans on being back by then.

Jeff_in_KC
07-27-2010, 07:13 PM
I'm surprised that Learn2Q is on there. (not that he doesn't deserve it). When I talked to Troy last, he was still barely moving good after his bypass surgery. Guess he plans on being back by then.

That's great that he's planning on being there! Must be lots of good news from his doctors.

Wow, we all knew pretty much what the list would look like but just seeing it is a bit unnerving! I sure as hell don't belong there but we're gonna just go do the best we can and represent the little guys! LOL!:boxing: