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View Full Version : Payouts???????????????


Jacked UP BBQ
06-15-2010, 11:57 AM
I have always wondered why at comps they pay the top ten per category but only pay the reserve and grand at most. I would say pay top five in the categories and the 6-10 money should go to the top ten OVERALL. It is much harder to achieve top ten overall than top ten in one category. It just doesn't make much sense to me.

Scottie
06-15-2010, 12:04 PM
I agree.

G$
06-15-2010, 12:10 PM
I am on record as agreeing with this as well.

Jeff Hughes
06-15-2010, 12:18 PM
I agree as well...

Those I know who disagree believe that small payouts in 6-10 in categories gives cooks who don't compete often a taste of some cash to keep them interested in competing again. I've seen guys joyous over a 25 dollar 9th place category check. Not me, I'd rather get some cash for coming in 5th or 6th overall...

Dan - 3eyzbbq
06-15-2010, 12:27 PM
Indeed

Fatback Joe
06-15-2010, 12:30 PM
Same view here

early mornin' smokin'
06-15-2010, 12:37 PM
yep, ill join on the bandwagon. Pay the top 3 in each category, than pay the overall top 10

Jacked UP BBQ
06-15-2010, 12:39 PM
The problem is all the hype about THE CALL..... Fark the call, I want the organizers signature or some dead presidents.

Ford
06-15-2010, 12:44 PM
I support paying by category even though it costs me money. It's better for competition to have those little guys get thsoe single category calls.

The system is designed to reward excellence (category calls) and consistency (top 2 or even maybe up to 5). Who really thinks a 9th overall when you didn't get a single top 10 should be rewarded over those category top 10 people.

Pit Mama
06-15-2010, 12:47 PM
I agree as well...

Those I know who disagree believe that small payouts in 6-10 in categories gives cooks who don't compete often a taste of some cash to keep them interested in competing again. I've seen guys joyous over a 25 dollar 9th place category check. Not me, I'd rather get some cash for coming in 5th or 6th overall...
I don't compete often, and I'd be happy to come home with any payout as a new team. HOWEVER, I completely agree Jeff, that certainly seems like the right thing to do. A $25.00 payout should never be a deciding factor in weather you would want to do it again. :thumb:

Alexa RnQ
06-15-2010, 12:48 PM
I'm sure the view depends on where you stand. There are an awful lot of cooks who aren't going to place regularly in the top 5 of categories, and if they make up the bulk of the field there's going to be a lot more interest in cash for 6-10 categories rather than diverting it to the overall.

We've also seen the prevalent rationale that Grand and Reserve shouldn't get much because "they got paid in the categories". We've seen Best Booth awarded more than the RGC, and often paid the same as a meat category.

We have more than a couple of contests out here (Pueblo, CO for example) that pay more than Grand and Reserve in the overalls -- Pueblo paid down to 10th in the overall and down to 10th in the categories. That was a $15K contest, it's harder to do that with a smaller prize fund.

Jacked UP BBQ
06-15-2010, 01:39 PM
The single category CALL....If thats all they want is to hear their names, so be it. Call them out. Don't give away money and a trophy to a guy who gets seventh place brisket and don't even acknowledge the guy who got fourth overall out of 50 teams because he consistently cooked his or her ass off in every cat whether a call or not. Not got lucky in one category and bombed the rest.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
06-15-2010, 01:41 PM
very interesting topic. I disagree with the "fark the walk attitude" MOST teams would be further ahead by staying home then to spend the $200.00 entry fee plus all the other added expenses so why do they (I) do it? I do it for fun and plastic pigs and cows, not cash Im never gonna get it all back. By adding a small pay out for 6th - 10th in each catagory it keeps the "little guy" interested and tring, sure a ribbon or $25.00 might not mean anything to some but it does to the majority. Not much of a prize pool if the little guys stay home. So I think that a little bone keeps the bbq comp world going around.

Sal

I do also think there should be more recognition for the top 5 over all and the top 10 overall in a large comp.

KC_Bobby
06-15-2010, 01:59 PM
In two comps last year I saw the same team finish 3rd out of 59 and 2nd of 65 overall with only one call (top 10) at each comp. I'd say finishes like that are worth more than just one just the check and ribbon for the one call - that's consistency across all categories. (yes, I realize the RGC provided recognition and $$, but follow me here)

I know when we don't hear our name in the top 10 overall, the first thing we look at on the score sheet is where we finished overall - not where we finished in categories we didn't get calls in. I'm assuming others do the same.

I understand why the payouts are for category as it increases the chances of the money getting spread around and I don't have an issue with that. But it really would be nice for the top 10 overall to get more recognition than just their name called. Ribbons, medallions, etc for 6th-10th and then cash and trophies or plaques for 3rd-5th would be a nice draw.

We did a comp earlier this year and as advertised it only paid top 5 per category and overall. I kind of questioned that and the organizer asked me what I thought about it. I told him I'd let him know after the comp. Turns out he got more teams than expected and was able to pay out the top 10 per category and top 10 overall. Being as we had two top 5's in categories and finished in the top 10 overall - it worked out great. I did like that he awarded the overalls more than the categories per placement.

Scottie
06-15-2010, 02:27 PM
when they were setting up the contest in my hometown, they asked me how in a perfect world would they pay out the monies. I told them the top 10 overall and payout the top 10 for category. The money for 6-10th place was $25. It was taken from the overall/top 5 fund. They ended up going with paying the top 5 overall and giving out ribbons. I also said that if you are paying someone for 5th overall, it better be more money than what 5th place in a category gets.

but I agree with what Matt was sauing. Anyone can get lucky and hit a category. We see it all the time. But to cook well in all 4 categories is what makes the cook, not one category.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
06-15-2010, 02:40 PM
when they were setting up the contest in my hometown, they asked me how in a perfect world would they pay out the monies. I told them the top 10 overall and payout the top 10 for category. The money for 6-10th place was $25. It was taken from the overall/top 5 fund. They ended up going with paying the top 5 overall and giving out ribbons. I also said that if you are paying someone for 5th overall, it better be more money than what 5th place in a category gets.

but I agree with what Matt was sauing. Anyone can get lucky and hit a category. We see it all the time. But to cook well in all 4 categories is what makes the cook, not one category.

just for discussions sake, would it be better to pay the top 10 (or 5) overall and eliminate the catagory payouts? its seems like that would be the way to go since its a 4 meat contest.

Scottie
06-15-2010, 02:48 PM
I have always felt that the GC and RGC is too top heavy. Don't get me wrong, I love winning them. but realistically, If you take $500 off the GC, you can spread that out for paying $25 for 6th-10th place for the 4 categories.

I do believe that the GC and RGC should get a good chunk, but spread it out some. If it means that a contest is going to happen next year, because a 10th place team got a call in chicken and they will be back again. that is a good thing.

Buster Dog BBQ
06-15-2010, 04:14 PM
I have mixed feelings on this. The only thing that kept us going the first year was getting something in a category. So a payout or something for a top 10 category was pretty important.

Stoke&Smoke
06-15-2010, 04:32 PM
As I third year cook, I have to say I agree with top 5 payouts and maybe ribbons or something for 6-10 in individual categories.

We have a limited budget, no sponsors, very little fancy equipment (no pellet poopers, stokers, gurus, etc.) And we're in it mostly for the fun of it.

We did 4 KCBS comps in 2008 got 1 call 3rd pork. We were ecstatic!!!
6 KCBS comps last year, got 6 calls, 4 of them top 5
This year we've done 1 so far and got 2 calls, both top 5

Someone else on this forum(who will remain nameless:icon_shy) tends to call anything below Grand Champ "first loser":twisted:. While I might look at it that way when I've been at it a little longer, I think ANY call is encouraging, it means we're on the right track, are improving, and gives us reason to come back and do it again.

But I would rather see more money to 1-5, ribbons or something for 6-10, and make the top 10 overall all be awarded more generously. Money we got for our 2 6-10 finishes was pretty much negligible anyway, but 2 top 5's paid our entry and half our meat!

Smokin' Gnome, I think if they only paid the top 10 overall, and not at least top 5 in categories you would have far fewer teams not come back again. I wouldn't

Just MHO:wink:

CajunSmoker
06-15-2010, 05:02 PM
Sorry, but to a lot of us guys it's a chance to go out, cook against our buddies and hear our name called. I think it's important to the "sport" of BBQ to keep as many payouts as possible for individual meats.

The Pickled Pig
06-15-2010, 05:11 PM
I have always wondered why at comps they pay the top ten per category but only pay the reserve and grand at most. I would say pay top five in the categories and the 6-10 money should go to the top ten OVERALL. It is much harder to achieve top ten overall than top ten in one category. It just doesn't make much sense to me.


Wholeheartedly agree.

Jacked UP BBQ
06-15-2010, 05:20 PM
I am also in this to have a good time and hang out with my friends. I also believe that success should be rewarded. Hearing my name called does not get overly exciting until you are down to brisket and you had a few others so you may have a shot.

CajunSmoker
06-15-2010, 06:21 PM
I am also in this to have a good time and hang out with my friends. I also believe that success should be rewarded. Hearing my name called does not get overly exciting until you are down to brisket and you had a few others so you may have a shot.

Until now I've never thought that maybe there should be a "Professional Circuit" as opposed to the rest of us. I can't imagine your sticker not peckin up when you hear your name called:crazy: If it was about the money I would find an easier hobby:roll:

boogiesnap
06-15-2010, 07:15 PM
newbie talking...but, for me, i think a trophy/ribbon/call is more important than a 25 dollar check. BUT, add up 25 dollar checks for 4 categories, say,6 thru 10, and you have a good chunk of money(500 bucks). i'd say, any one placing 6 thru 10 in a category wouldn't mind it all if that money went to 1st thru 5th and overall 1 thru 3 as long as they still got a call and trophy/ribbon, especially when they got there! i dunno, 25 dollars i'll pee away and never remember, but a ribbon/trophy/call will never get lost.

CivilWarBBQ
06-15-2010, 07:23 PM
Payouts are structured the way they are because:
1) KCBS has requirements for payouts
2) Organizers want to make the maximum number of cooks happy

The simple fact is we all need the local guys who only cook one or two events a year. It's like insurance - you gotta have a few people who almost never wreck to make the system work for those who do. To keep these folks coming out they need to have a chance to get a check once in a while.

Alexa RnQ
06-15-2010, 09:18 PM
I can't imagine your sticker not peckin up when you hear your name called
This is my new favorite phrase. http://www.divaherself.com/funny/hearteyes.gif

BigBrad
06-15-2010, 10:34 PM
Maybe it's because I have not won any GC or RGC's but I think paying the 4 catagories is a good thing. I have been competing for five years now, only one comp per year until this year, and have only been called up twice. 3rd place ribs last year and 8th place chicken at my first comp this year. Third place ribs payed $150 and 8th place chicken got a plaque, not enough to meet expenses but better than nothing. I think new teams getting a call will keep them coming back again and shooting for their first GC or RGC. Just my opinion.

Smokesman
06-16-2010, 07:09 AM
Interesting discussion everyone. I think Cajun and Jack can happily agree to disagree as they come to competitive BBQ from very different perspectives. We all do! For some that only compete once or twice a year when a comp is nearby it is most certainly a hobby. On the other extreme it is a way to make a living or supplement income and to do that you have to do well consistently. I think it is safe to say that for most of us, my team included, we are happily somewhere in the middle. Call it BBQ with potential. Starts out as a hobby with potential to become something bigger. I know for us when we formed our team early last year we would have never thought we would be where we are now. After only two pro comps we have not only family & friends but complete strangers asking us if we do catering, wondering if they can buy rub, etc. Wow! So we are seeing where it takes us but it has definitely moved out of the realm of hobby. Is it still fun, hell yes! Otherwise what's the point!?!

Jorge
06-16-2010, 10:21 AM
Mode Note: Are you people kidding me? The personal name calling ends now. I'll get around to the PMs for those that have earned them as time permits.

If anybody wants to continue the behavior that's led to this thread being locked, temporarily, you can roll the dice. There will not be another warning.

Edit: Please, no commentary or glib one liners.

Edit Redux: If a post of yours is gone, it may be due to a quote that contained a post that was deleted for cause. If you want to appeal, feel free to shoot me a PM.

sitnfat
06-16-2010, 12:05 PM
We will be heading to our 3rd comp in a couple of weeks and I have to say when looking for comps to attend we looked at ones that paid through 10 spots.. Why to help pay entry fees into our next comp.We went into these confident we would place in something We got 8th place call in our first comp my ribs bombed but that 100 bucks helped pay for the meat for the next comp. Our second comp my ribs came in 3rd my brisket well it was burnt due to the fact my smoker was lit and they didnt know I put foil under my rack. But that 3rd place call paid for the comp next weekend and the GC we plan on getting next weekend will pay for the rest of the comps this year and hopefully fuel to the Jack so you see paying through 10 really helps smaller up and coming teams such as ourselves,well that and this KA website! JMHO

Spydermike72
06-16-2010, 12:27 PM
I can see both sides of the argument. I like to hear the call, I like the money too. I finished in the Top 10 at one comp a few years back, got 7th place in 3 categories and an 8th in the other and ended up 7th overall but did not win a dime. I had 4 pretty ribbons that are hanging up in my bar right now :becky:

Sledneck
06-16-2010, 03:09 PM
Not so much the money but I hate that you have that after hearing 40 calls for individual categories and all they call is GC & RGC. At least mention the top ten .

Lake Dogs
06-16-2010, 03:55 PM
While I'm certain there are a few teams that would prefer all the monies go only
GC and/or RGC, the organizer is trying to have a competition that's desired next
year and the next. They want/need the local teams year after year, whether that
team is very successful or not. To do this they need to recognize both the \"lucky shot" team (as hand been mentioned earlier) as well as the consistently good/great
team.

There's a balance to be had. I've always preferred how Scottie originally listed it
with monies to top 10 in each category (even if it's a very small amount) AND
monies to top 10 overall. I dont think anyone disagrees that the overall is far
more prestigious and earned than any one category placement/call/win.

I've personally liked the top 10 calls overall because when going up against Myron and
the others it really tells you how you're doing (ala. how you've done) and gives you
something to strive for in subsequent years (improvement).

For the competitions that only call RGC and GC, even if no monies paid out to 3rd thru
10th overall, I think a call and a ribbon would be better than nothing. If nothing else,
there's a recognition of success thing going on.

If you'd like it changed (at a competition), seek out the organizer and talk with them
(if you can get a moment of their time). State your case. Most aren't competitors
and have never been behind a smoker. Understand their needs, and explain to them
how a little/small change can better fit their need. Sell it.

Pit Mama
06-16-2010, 04:13 PM
Not so much the money but I hate that you have that after hearing 40 calls for individual categories and all they call is GC & RGC. At least mention the top ten .

Agree!!

Brew-B-Q
06-16-2010, 04:14 PM
I also like hearing the top ten overall called. It's a nice touch to reward the consistent teams. Plus, it adds to the excitement and allows you to think your 3rd and 7th place calls, coupled with a "crossing fingers" 11th place in the other 2 categories gives you a shot.

Scottie
06-16-2010, 04:52 PM
I also like hearing the top ten overall called. It's a nice touch to reward the consistent teams. Plus, it adds to the excitement and allows you to think your 3rd and 7th place calls, coupled with a "crossing fingers" 11th place in the other 2 categories gives you a shot.


Keep dreaming bud... ;) July heat is coming at you....

HoDeDo
06-16-2010, 06:41 PM
Originally, (before KCBS) many of the comps were just for bragging rights, and to raise money for "x" cause. If there was a prize, it was something donated by a sponsor, or team. It was always about the bragging rights.

the money and the depth of which they pay it is a fairly recent advent. In a perfect world, overall would get paid out the most, and money in every catagory --But you dont get sponsors without folks attending, and you dont get folks attending without some local rivalry at play...and the community involved. The calls/ribbons, and small checks keep those guys coming back.

I can appreciate the guys that dont get excited until the brisket calls... but I still tend to be amazed that I get any calls at all. Maybe it is a function of the fact I have cooked for so many years getting one or two in a season...or maybe I am an attention hound... but I'll take hearing my name anytime. check or not.

There is usually smack talk somewhere that has to get backed up after awards over a beer... Whether it is chicken vs. Todd, or Brisket vs. Jeff or whatever... If you arent about beatin' your bud for braggin' rights, it can get lonely waitin for a check.

Show up and support your comps and get people excited, and I would imagine in the next 5 years, we will see even more funds available to call out and pay out as deep as everyone would like! It has only grown... Talk to your organizers and tell them what you want. Or maybe go old school and get some prizes/product to spread to the lower calls, so the money can stay at the overall in deeper places.... lots of ways to skin the cat.

As an example, the original Blue Devil cookoff, had a weekend at a condo in Colorado as the grand prize... in its last year, I believe the 1st prize was $10K. Alot of things happen with time.

CajunSmoker
06-16-2010, 06:53 PM
Originally, (before KCBS) many of the comps were just for bragging rights, and to raise money for "x" cause. If there was a prize, it was something donated by a sponsor, or team. It was always about the bragging rights.

the money and the depth of which they pay it is a fairly recent advent. In a perfect world, overall would get paid out the most, and money in every catagory --But you dont get sponsors without folks attending, and you dont get folks attending without some local rivalry at play...and the community involved. The calls/ribbons, and small checks keep those guys coming back.

I can appreciate the guys that dont get excited until the brisket calls... but I still tend to be amazed that I get any calls at all. Maybe it is a function of the fact I have cooked for so many years getting one or two in a season...or maybe I am an attention hound... but I'll take hearing my name anytime. check or not.

There is usually smack talk somewhere that has to get backed up after awards over a beer... Whether it is chicken vs. Todd, or Brisket vs. Jeff or whatever... If you arent about beatin' your bud for braggin' rights, it can get lonely waitin for a check.

Show up and support your comps and get people excited, and I would imagine in the next 5 years, we will see even more funds available to call out and pay out as deep as everyone would like! It has only grown... Talk to your organizers and tell them what you want. Or maybe go old school and get some prizes/product to spread to the lower calls, so the money can stay at the overall in deeper places.... lots of ways to skin the cat.

As an example, the original Blue Devil cookoff, had a weekend at a condo in Colorado as the grand prize... in its last year, I believe the 1st prize was $10K. Alot of things happen with time.


you da man:thumb:

edit - I gotta say I was excited as chit a couple years ago at Hot Springs when my chicken (that your wife had to put back in my farked up box) got called, but I was just as excited when you won pork!!! It's almost a family thing