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Dan - 3eyzbbq
05-23-2010, 06:50 PM
Got a first place rib call yesterday in Middletown, DE :-D

And a comment card for those ribs:

"Too much sauce - looked like artificial food" scores 4/5/6"

Just HAD to share with you all :tsk::confused:

Buster Dog BBQ
05-23-2010, 06:52 PM
Not sure how too much sauce would impact tenderness.

Bbq Bubba
05-23-2010, 07:00 PM
So only 1 judge at that table knew what they were talking about? :twisted:

Jacked UP BBQ
05-23-2010, 07:04 PM
Great job Dan. Fark that judge. I have had stupid comment cards also, food looked too perfect?????? WTF

musicmanryann
05-23-2010, 07:11 PM
Thankfully, it looks like 5 others judges disagreed with that judge's assessment.:wink:

Dan - 3eyzbbq
05-23-2010, 07:16 PM
Thankfully, it looks like 5 others judges disagreed with that judge's assessment.:wink:

Yea, I had tears in my eyes from laughing when I got it. I really appreciate the dropped score!

Coz
05-23-2010, 07:20 PM
We had a card yesterday also said the ribs were too salty...I cant figure how the judge found the salt thru the layer of honey that is so sweet I cant eat it?

Jeff_in_KC
05-23-2010, 07:53 PM
Heard last night about a comment card awhile back on ribs that said "Tasted too much like pork". Sometimes ya just gotta wonder why all judges can't be like Dave Compton! LOL!

bam
05-23-2010, 08:18 PM
Dan give that card back with a note. "this is how 1st place ribs look" :thumb:

luckyduk
05-23-2010, 08:47 PM
Dan give that card back with a note. "this is how 1st place ribs look" :thumb:

That's funny!!!!

boogiesnap
05-23-2010, 09:16 PM
wow, scored down on something so perfect it looked artificial...thats...interesting.
congrats on making perfect food! now, let me see the &*(7^*ING PIC!!!!!

boogiesnap
05-23-2010, 09:21 PM
found it...those look good fella.
congrats again!

Smokedelic
05-23-2010, 09:52 PM
Congrats on the call Dan.

Was the comment card from Judge #5? Personally, I can't stand judge # 5.:mad2:

ModelMaker
05-24-2010, 09:30 AM
So after you saw the card did you go to the rep and ask for his opinion? All comment cards go staight to the rep and he/she should have had an issue with that comment and talked to the offending judge and admonished him for being stupid!!
The rep then should have offered his apoligys and reported to you what was done to remidy this in the future. If none of that happened then the process did not work as it should have.
Ed

Bratenmeister
05-24-2010, 11:14 AM
I'm fairly new to BBQ judging; I've judged three comps so far this year. On chicken, in my opinion, I think some cooks might take uniformity and manipulation of the natural shape of the meat a bit too far. One box at the last competition I judged, a box contained six chicken thighs which, to me, because of their precise identical shape and size, and obviously some molding, they looked like processed chicken of some sort you might get from the Swhann Man as opposed to natrual thighs i would expect to get at the supermarket, a family BBQ, or a resturant. I judge the meat's apprearence based on how much I want to take a bite just by looking at it, and if it doesn't look like a natural chicken shape, its not as appealing to me. Some effort at uniformity, triming, and such is obviously necessary, but I think it can be taken too far and make the meat look unnatrual.

And I realize this is just my opinion, but I want a box of chicken thighs to look like what they're supposed to be, chicken thighs, not like a box of giant processed chicken nuggets. I still gave the chicken an 8 in appearance because the meat was nicely arranged in the box, a lot of effort was made to put together a nice looking box, and the meat appeared to have great color and glaze, but I was turned off because of the overly manipulated appearance of the meat. I'd be interested in thoughts and comments about that. Maybe I should reconsider my thinking, and I'm open to ideas on the topic.

I know a lot, lot of work goes into making the chicken look uniform, but can uniformity be taken too far? Just throwing that out there for thoughts.

Mabye a bit off topic, since the original post is about ribs.

bigabyte
05-24-2010, 11:20 AM
I sure hope the Table Captain took spoke to the judge who put that down. Obviously they had a huge variance from the other 5 judges.

...then again, maybe they WERE the table captain!:shock:

Big George's BBQ
05-24-2010, 11:20 AM
Makes you wonder what they were looking at

Divemaster
05-24-2010, 11:36 AM
Gotta love it...

This time we put the center section of wings in the box along with our thighs... Got back a card "The wing didn't help"... Score from the judge... 9/8/8...

I guessing it didn't hurt either.... lol

Jorge
05-24-2010, 11:57 AM
I think I'd frame that AND the score sheet.

Dan - 3eyzbbq
05-24-2010, 12:24 PM
So after you saw the card did you go to the rep and ask for his opinion? All comment cards go staight to the rep and he/she should have had an issue with that comment and talked to the offending judge and admonished him for being stupid!!
The rep then should have offered his apoligys and reported to you what was done to remidy this in the future. If none of that happened then the process did not work as it should have.
Ed

Yes, I did talk to the rep - immediately. The response I'll keep to myself, but I was happy with it.

Dan - 3eyzbbq
05-24-2010, 12:26 PM
Mabye a bit off topic, since the original post is about ribs.

Yea, I did manipulate them. I cut them. Thats really about it, but appreciate the response.

BBQ_Mayor
05-24-2010, 12:28 PM
so do you have a pic of these so called "fake" ribs? let us be the judge..
Congrats on the call!

DawgPhan
05-24-2010, 12:34 PM
I'm fairly new to BBQ judging; I've judged three comps so far this year. On chicken, in my opinion, I think some cooks might take uniformity and manipulation of the natural shape of the meat a bit too far. One box at the last competition I judged, a box contained six chicken thighs which, to me, because of their precise identical shape and size, and obviously some molding, they looked like processed chicken of some sort you might get from the Swhann Man as opposed to natrual thighs i would expect to get at the supermarket, a family BBQ, or a resturant. I judge the meat's apprearence based on how much I want to take a bite just by looking at it, and if it doesn't look like a natural chicken shape, its not as appealing to me. Some effort at uniformity, triming, and such is obviously necessary, but I think it can be taken too far and make the meat look unnatrual.

And I realize this is just my opinion, but I want a box of chicken thighs to look like what they're supposed to be, chicken thighs, not like a box of giant processed chicken nuggets. I still gave the chicken an 8 in appearance because the meat was nicely arranged in the box, a lot of effort was made to put together a nice looking box, and the meat appeared to have great color and glaze, but I was turned off because of the overly manipulated appearance of the meat. I'd be interested in thoughts and comments about that. Maybe I should reconsider my thinking, and I'm open to ideas on the topic.

I know a lot, lot of work goes into making the chicken look uniform, but can uniformity be taken too far? Just throwing that out there for thoughts.

Mabye a bit off topic, since the original post is about ribs.

You arent going to make a lot of friends saying stuff like that in the competition section...your biases should not show up on the score card.

next time just judge the execution of what they were doing and don't apply some arbitrary standard to the meat.

Bratenmeister
05-24-2010, 12:59 PM
You arent going to make a lot of friends saying stuff like that in the competition section...your biases should not show up on the score card.

next time just judge the execution of what they were doing and don't apply some arbitrary standard to the meat.


I take judging seriously as I understand the time, money, and effort that the talented cooks put into their competition BBQ. I have reviewed the KCBS standards on appearance numerous times, and I cannot find that I have violated any KCBS criteria for proper judging by having the opinion that I do. Like I said, I'm open for dicussion. Simply telling me I'm making no friends and that I'm "arbirtrary" doesn't really further my understanding of how to be a better judge, no offense.

Jorge
05-24-2010, 01:12 PM
And I realize this is just my opinion, but I want a box of chicken thighs to look like what they're supposed to be, chicken thighs, not like a box of giant processed chicken nuggets. I still gave the chicken an 8 in appearance because the meat was nicely arranged in the box, a lot of effort was made to put together a nice looking box, and the meat appeared to have great color and glaze, but I was turned off because of the overly manipulated appearance of the meat. I'd be interested in thoughts and comments about that. Maybe I should reconsider my thinking, and I'm open to ideas on the topic.



I think the sentence I highlighted above might get you in hot water with some cooks. It's clear that you have a preconceived idea of what a thigh "should" look like.

If you don't like to see 6+ thighs that have been trimmed and shaped that's fine, and understandable. As a judge you are responsible for judging how well the cook executed what they were attempting to do. In my opinion, docking a cook a point because all of their samples were equally trimmed, shaped, and placed in the box wasn't fair to the cook.

Bratenmeister
05-24-2010, 02:14 PM
I think the sentence I highlighted above might get you in hot water with some cooks. It's clear that you have a preconceived idea of what a thigh "should" look like.

If you don't like to see 6+ thighs that have been trimmed and shaped that's fine, and understandable. As a judge you are responsible for judging how well the cook executed what they were attempting to do. In my opinion, docking a cook a point because all of their samples were equally trimmed, shaped, and placed in the box wasn't fair to the cook.


Thank you for the constructive feedback. I appreciate it. For discussion pruposes, would your criticisim of my judging be the same if I said I gave them an extra point because they were the same size and shape? Or as a judge, should we not consider that at all?

Jorge
05-24-2010, 02:30 PM
Thank you for the constructive feedback. I appreciate it. For discussion pruposes, would your criticisim of my judging be the same if I said I gave them an extra point because they were the same size and shape? Or as a judge, should we not consider that at all?

Let me put it this way.... In your earlier example I have a problem if you scored that as an 8 rather than a 9 if the reason was that the thighs were so uniform in appearance when that's something I think the cook was clearly trying to achieve.

In some cases a cook may choose to use different size thighs based on how they plan to fill their box. Giving another cook a bonus point because all of their samples were the same size and shape wouldn't be fair either.

It will get easier with experience.

Bratenmeister
05-24-2010, 02:37 PM
Let me put it this way.... In your earlier example I have a problem if you scored that as an 8 rather than a 9 if the reason was that the thighs were so uniform in appearance when that's something I think the cook was clearly trying to achieve.

In some cases a cook may choose to use different size thighs based on how they plan to fill their box. Giving another cook a bonus point because all of their samples were the same size and shape wouldn't be fair either.

It will get easier with experience.


Thank you for the feedback. I understand what you are saying, and I'll hopefully learn from experience as you said. I truly respect the effort you guys put into your craft, and I want to make sure I'm judiging fairly. Thanks again.

CivilWarBBQ
05-24-2010, 03:09 PM
I'd be thrilled to get that comment card!

The purpose of the comment cards is to help you understand why a judge gave you low marks. In this case that's exactly what happened. It's not neccessary for you to agree with the comments, usually you won't. In this case you were clued in that you encountered a judge with opinions "considerably different than most". (Yes, I'm being kind)

This is much better than getting low ball scores from one judge with no explanation. Then you are asking yourself questions like: "Did I mis-cut a rib?" "Was that rib I had to use from the other rack no good?" "Could I have missed some membrane?"

Instead you got a pretty good read on why you tanked with one judge, and that is the whole purpose of the comment cards.

U2CANQUE
05-24-2010, 03:18 PM
Thank you for the feedback. I understand what you are saying, and I'll hopefully learn from experience as you said. I truly respect the effort you guys put into your craft, and I want to make sure I'm judiging fairly. Thanks again.

And, it is also appreciated that you have discussed, and asked questions from the judging side, as well as took comments into thought....there are some that would not ever do that on the judging side....so, thank you for your time and money as well.....without judges, where would we be?

Red Valley BBQ
05-24-2010, 03:40 PM
without judges, where would we be?

A 48 way tie for Grand Champion?

U2CANQUE
05-24-2010, 03:46 PM
A 48 way tie for Grand Champion?
worse, cooks judging, and who do you think would be harder on the entries.....I know where my vote goes.....

Bratenmeister
05-24-2010, 04:30 PM
And, it is also appreciated that you have discussed, and asked questions from the judging side, as well as took comments into thought....there are some that would not ever do that on the judging side....so, thank you for your time and money as well.....without judges, where would we be?

Thanks for the comment. I am new to competiton BBQ, and I can say that my judging will be different now because of this conversation. I anticipate posting more questions as I judge more, inviting constructive criticism and comment, and I think more dialogue between those that only judge and those that are competitors makes a better experience for everyone involved. Sorry that I've taken this thread off its intended topic.

G$
05-24-2010, 05:36 PM
You arent going to make a lot of friends saying stuff like that in the competition section...your biases should not show up on the score card.

next time just judge the execution of what they were doing and don't apply some arbitrary standard to the meat.

To be honest, as a competitor, I appreciated Bratenmeister's input more than yours.

He was fair, polite, understanding, empathetic, and also gave insight in to why an entry may not get his highest appearance score. I am not sure what else we expect of human judges.

The appearance should "make you want to dig in and put the entry right in your mouth". I can appreciate how "molded or sculpted" (please note my "quotes" would detract from that.

Sledneck
05-24-2010, 05:41 PM
Could be worse, those artificial ribs could of had "tiny bubbles" :shock:

Bbq Bubba
05-24-2010, 07:33 PM
worse, cooks judging, and who do you think would be harder on the entries.....I know where my vote goes.....

Cooks would and do make the worst judges. :rolleyes:

Myself included.