Bandera fired up first time: Need advice for times/foiling

[cayenne]

Hi all!!

Well, got the smoker put together yesterday....seasoned it with a bunch of mesquite wood last evening for about4-5 hours.

I've got on a pork shoulder (boston butt)...I'm not sure the exact weight, as that I bought on special awhile back...2 per bag for $0.99/lb. This section left didn't have the weight tag...I'm going with 8lbs as an estimate, but, it may be nearer 10 lbs.

I'm getting a little better at temp maintenance..I have a huge bag I found of mesquite mini-logs...and I find it doesn't take but one or two at a time to keep temp...actually keeping it below 225 is almost difficult at times . I live inNew Orleans...and it is over 90F today with major humidity.

Anyway, I've been digging through posts and the files section here...and I'm still a bit confused when it comes to foiling for pork roasts like I have..and for beef roasts.

I got the pork shoulder on at about 9:30 am...(Yes, I know I'll be up late). I'm not sure how the 321 or 221 type rule I've found for ribs would apply to the pork shoulder. About how long in smoker before foiling...how long in foil till you take it off again for the 'bark' regeneration?

I've got some baby back ribs....I figured out the 2-2-1 method for those and will throw those on in a bit. By the way, ya'll ever have some ribs that you cannot seem to peel off the back membrane of? This is the 2nd set I've gotten recently that I cannot seem to peel the backs off of....last time I just had to trim each meat section with a knife.

Also, and I admit I haven't had time to read all here on the forum about chicken timings and possible foiling for those (will look more), but, any quick tips on timing, etc for a whole fryer sized bird? I've got it brining here now...will be only about 3 hours for that...

One last thing. A friend that came over to pick up my old weber bullet smoker (poorer family, and couldn't afford a nice grill and smoker...I gave my gas grill to them too).....had a bottom round beef roast he wanted me to smoke. He 'signed' the guinea pig papers agreeing I could not guarantee my results on my maiden voyage with the new bandera....but, any advice on this piece of meat? I rubbed it quickly...is about 4 lbs.

My rub for everything today is pretty much equal parts paprika, black pepper, garlic powder, and chile powder....with sugar also added to pork..and salt to the beef.

I put together my first mop today...of 2 cup cider vinegar, 1 cup water, 2 TBSP kosher salt, 1 TBSP worchestershire sauce, 3 TBSP black pepper, and 2 tsp cayenne pepper.

Anyway, I'm having a blast with the new smoker today.....I went by Big Lots here yesterday, and bought 4 of the $5.99 digital thermos...(thanx for the hint)...and having fun.

Any advice on the foiling of the pork shoulder and other questions greatly appreciated...

cayenne

ps. I did a makeshift heatshield with foil on a grill rack below all my meats...in bottom near water pan...seemed to help keep the temp good in the rest of the smoke box.

[willkat98]

Whoa Pepper, you just asked a ****load.

Here's my $2 worth :)


Anyway, I've been digging through posts and the files section here...and I'm still a bit confused when it comes to foiling for pork roasts like I have..and for beef roasts.

Pork butts, loins, Chusck roasts, brisket, etc I treat the same. Its all about temperature, not weight and time in the smoke. Bring to 165, then wrap in Heavy Duty Foil, then back in smoker till 190 ish, then into the cooler for a few hours. It will bring the temps down nice and slow. No cooler? Wrap in a towel, then into the oven with NO heat added, just leave the door shut. I once had a large feast that wouldnt fit in the cooler, so I turned the oven on for about 20 minutes at 250. Laid baking sheets in there. did the towel trick, put on the sheet and turned off the oven for good just as I put them in there. 2 hours and your in heaven.


I'm not sure how the 321 or 221 type rule I've found for ribs would apply to the pork shoulder. About how long in smoker before foiling...how long in foil till you take it off again for the 'bark' regeneration?

I've got some baby back ribs....I figured out the 2-2-1 method for those and will throw those on in a bit. By the way, ya'll ever have some ribs that you cannot seem to peel off the back membrane of? This is the 2nd set I've gotten recently that I cannot seem to peel the backs off of....last time I just had to trim each meat section with a knife.


The last hour (the "1" in the methods) is for applying sauce. I never apply sauce, I serve with sauce on the side, so I use a "3-3" or "2-3" method. if you can keep temps around 220-230, you can go with 3-2-1 on baby backs. the "2" method is just to insure you don't overdo it.

A spray bottle with some sort of concoction (I use Hi-C type juice boxes, others use bourbon and vinegar, or pickle juice, lots of variety here) and spray away while in the smoke, every 30 min or so. Before you wrap, spray the **** out of it, then close it up. Helps create more steam in there.

If you do not foil, but continually mop, IMO you get a better bark. Since my kids prefer moist and tender over bark appeal, I make the trade off and focus on fall apart meats.

Membranes:
Trick Phil taught me, just get a tiny tiny piece of membrane started, grab a paper towel, pinch the piece with the paper towel in your fingers, then pull. It takes seconds. Other thing, are you sure the membrane isnt gone? I get cryovacs from "Market Day", a school fundraiser. Baby backs are already skinned. Awesome.


Also, and I admit I haven't had time to read all here on the forum about chicken timings and possible foiling for those (will look more), but, any quick tips on timing, etc for a whole fryer sized bird? I've got it brining here now...will be only about 3 hours for that...

Again, its temps that are your guide. 180* on chicken and you'll be fine. Done check it for about 2.5-3hours on a 6 pounder. I dont foil, but chicken dries out quick. My tips: eat the chicken tonight, it will be its moistest. Peel skin, rip apart and eat. If you can't, foil in HD foil as soon as it is 180*. throw in the fridge. To reheat, add 2" hot water to casserole dish. Unwrap chicken from fridge, place in water, cover entire pan with HD foil. Oven at 300 for 2-3 hours, 350 for 1.5 hours. Your not cooking, you are slowly reheating. I will occasionally boil the water first, to cut the reheat time down, and save the air conditioner.


).....had a bottom round beef roast he wanted me to smoke. He 'signed' the guinea pig papers agreeing I could not guarantee my results on my maiden voyage with the new bandera....but, any advice on this piece of meat? I rubbed it quickly...is about 4 lbs.


Awesome piece of meat. just do the 165 wrap, 190, cooler method. I do bottom round, top round, chusck's (Phil's Chuck Roast) and it is all good.

Just hit PM button (private message) on any one of my posts if you need more help Pepper.

Great to have you on board.

[kcquer]

cayenne, for the pork shoulder/butt, instead of time you wrap when it reaches 160* internal temp, take to 200 for pulling, 190* for slicing.

The cut of beef you have is pretty lean for smoking, it'll probably tend to dry out so if you have some bacon on hand wrap it in the bacon. Foil it like the butt at 160 and take to 190-200. Higher end will be more tender, but won't slice as well.

Unfoiling, I don't unfoil pork butt, infact if you have time and patience, leave it wrapped after you're done cooking it until it comes down to 160 again. For things I do unwrap 60 to 90 mins @ 225 will spruce up even a whole 12 or 14# packer brisket.

Remember to mop/spray stuff before you wrap it up.

Sorry I can't help you with the bird I always rotisserie my whole chickens on the gas grill.


A friend that came over to pick up my old weber bullet smoker (poorer family, and couldn't afford a nice grill and smoker...I gave my gas grill to them too).....

Very Brotherly thing to do, nice to have you with us. Keep having fun, that's what its all about. What doesn't come out perfect will help you improve next time.

[The_Kapn]

Wow Cayenne- heck of a first cook! I had a lot less confidence (actually I was chicken)
).....had a bottom round beef roast he wanted me to smoke. He 'signed' the guinea pig papers agreeing I could not guarantee my results on my maiden voyage with the new bandera....but, any advice on this piece of meat? I rubbed it quickly...is about 4 lbs
I'll tell ya what I little I know about Bottom Round. It is my Jerky meat. Very lean escept for the cap and "V" normally found on the bottom as packaged. Almost zero marbelling. My guess is it will come out tough and will not pull. Might slice. Gonna take forever to cook. Ya might lay bacon strips on for extra moisture.
Most of us take the Boston Butt/Shoulder to about 160-170 meat temp and then wrap in foil with extra mop/sauce. Cook at 200-250 till meat temp reaches 190-200. For the ultimate finish, wrap in a towel and place in a cooler till temp comes back down to 160 or so. Variations exist, but that will get ya started.
Anyway, I'm having a blast with the new smoker today
That is what it is all about!!!!!
Others will finish your excellent questions.
I gotta run and finish yard work- cooking tomorrow if I get my "honey do's" worked off.
TIM

[willkat98]

I gotta run and finish yard work- cooking tomorrow if I get my "honey do's" worked off.
TIM


Sorry about this Tim, but I gotta say it:

Tell her to Fark Off (sweetly, mind you)

No disrespect intended, but this is your day, your one and only day of the farking year.

Fathers day was made for us to finally tell everyone to go fark themself. Only Hallmark Holiday I recognize :)

[cayenne]

Many thanx to all!!! Been taking it easy today.....only on the 2nd drink so far (but, I do make them in frozen pint glasses.). I homebrew too....but, am on low-carb right now...hence the smoker thing in FULL blast. I"m thinking of brining some pork next time in homebrew to see how it turns out....

THis great advice will get me through the day I think...I'll make sure and give a report back when done. What a great group.....I'm going to enjoy this new smoker for a LONG time to come. I love to cook in general....and this is a great new way for me to try to master. The foiling thing is just new to me....

Yeah, I live in NOLA, and there are a lot of people that don't have much down here. I don't care if people make more or less than me....just as long as they're loyal and good friends. I hate to waste...and this guy and his family will enjoy my old stuff....and I'll coach them on how to use them.

Funny thing...NOLA has some of the best foods in the world...but, they don't know jack sh*t about good BBQ. I've really blown some minds with my old bullet smoker...can't wait to have a party with the new one (once I'm comfy with the new indirect method).

I think I'm gonna actually shred the chicken, and put into my sour cream chicken enchiladas, and freeze for a month or so from now when I get to work carbs on my diet again.

Anyone care for my SC Chicken enchiladas? They are totally superior to my original recipe with smoked chicken...

I'll post if anyone is interested...meantime...time for another drink, and checking the temp on the foods.

Cayenne

[willkat98]

Anyone care for my SC Chicken enchiladas? They are totally superior to my original recipe with smoked chicken...

I'll post if anyone is interested...meantime...time for another drink, and checking the temp on the foods.


Sounds Great Pep!

And Jorge is one to have a great enchilada recipe. Mark, I think, has a good one too. By all means share. If its not a family secret, feel free to post in the Recipe section.

Don't overlook the Low Carb forum to share some of your secrets with fat people like Phil. oops. sorry Phil. I forgot how sensitive you are. Weight Challenged people like Phil

[The_Kapn]

Sorry about this Tim, but I gotta say it:
Tell her to Fark Off (sweetly, mind you)
Bill,
Not really Karen's fault. I had 2 big projects to do before Monday PM, mow my 1.5 acres and wash the RV.
Got up this AM and my Broiler Hen, Turkey Wings, and Turkey Drummies were frozen solid still :evil: Fark. Note to self, "thaw in kitchen frig, not in beer fridge (which is about 35 degreees)."
Anyway, cool cloudy day-my choice to do chores! Cook tomorrow.
We go to Disney on Tuesday for a week :!: Ya got me really psyched up with your trip report :lol: :lol:
Back on topic:
Anyone care for my SC Chicken enchiladas? They are totally superior to my original recipe with smoked chicken...
Cayenne--post it to recipies! We all love new and different things.
Let us know how your cook comes out- especially that Bottom Round.
TIM

[BBQchef33]

[quote]
Don't overlook the Low Carb forum to share some of your secrets with fat people like Phil. oops. sorry Phil. I forgot how sensitive you are. Weight Challenged people like Phil


hey, i resemble that remark...... i aint fat, i am gravitationally Challenged.... and down to 217 from 267 in a year.. i aint complainin...

[The_Kapn]

i am gravitationally Challenged....
Love it!
Looking at myself--YUP :D
TIM

[Jorge]

I think I'm gonna actually shred the chicken, and put into my sour cream chicken enchiladas, and freeze for a month or so from now when I get to work carbs on my diet again.

Anyone care for my SC Chicken enchiladas? They are totally superior to my original recipe with smoked chicken...

I'll post if anyone is interested...meantime...time for another drink, and checking the temp on the foods.

Cayenne

Fire away. I'd like to check it out and see how I can improve my version. Man can not live on Q alone. That's why there is tex-mex :wink:

BTW welcome!

[brdbbq]

That's why there is tex-mex


You hit that nail on the head.

[chad]

Cuban food ain't too shabby, either! :D

[cabo]

ps. I did a makeshift heatshield with foil on a grill rack below all my meats...in bottom near water pan...seemed to help keep the temp good in the rest of the smoke box.


Hmmm, heat shield below the meat.
The original intent for that mod was to help with smaller cooks, by putting it directly above the food to cut fuel consumption.
To put it below the meat could help in even heat distribution I.E. baffle, or tunining plate. Should work with some holes in it.........

Anyway sounds ike a great cook. Congrats!!!

[bbqneo]

Bring to 165, then wrap in Heavy Duty Foil, then back in smoker till 190 ish, then into the cooler for a few hours.

Has anyone tried to use Reynolds Oven Bags instead of foil? Seems as though the bags would keep in the juices and be easier to use.

[chad]

Has anyone tried to use Reynolds Oven Bags instead of foil? Seems as though the bags would keep in the juices and be easier to use.


They are great - but foil is cheaper!

I used an oven roasting bag (the plastic looking things) on Saturday for a chuck roast. I was able to save all the juice (after the 165 point!) and used it to make sauce.

So yeah, foil bags are ok. Like I said, they are just a bit expensive -- also, whole briskets may not fit.

[kcquer]

I read somewhere that folks do butts in brown paper bags, the particular article I read the author did them this way on a weber with the fire to the sides and had no trouble with catching the bags on fire. Double paper bagged as I remember. Might be worth a try.

[chad]

I have done chicken in a brown paper bag -- in the oven though. Temps are important!! The "plastic" oven bags are only good up to about 350 or so -- so they work fine in an offset smoker. I'm thinking the brown paper bags would work very well in an offset smoker, too.

I can see where you could use it in a Weber but I don't usually control my fire quite that well in a grill.

[BigAl]

Has anyone tried to use Reynolds Oven Bags instead of foil? Seems as though the bags would keep in the juices and be easier to use.


They are great - but foil is cheaper!

I used an oven roasting bag (the plastic looking things) on Saturday for a chuck roast. I was able to save all the juice (after the 165 point!) and used it to make sauce.

So yeah, foil bags are ok. Like I said, they are just a bit expensive -- also, whole briskets may not fit.

I use the Turkey size Reynolds oven bags to Marinate full cut 14-15 lb Brisket and foil when done to keep the heat in while in the cooler.

[BBQchef33]

DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

Holy Sheet.... why didnt someone think this up sooner? Good idea.!

only thing that comes to mind is that the airspace in the bag may cause a boiling or steaming effect. When we wrap with foil, we wrap tightly and try to make it airtight. But its worth a try. maybe at bash this weekend, we throw a rack of Babybacks in a bag and see how things turn out.